Low oil pressure/"locked up" engine after an oil change

[Pandamonium]

Cliffs: Highway roadkill accident destroys my radiator and the "shelf" it sits on. I file a claim and get it fixed up. Receive car back on a Monday. Got an oil change on a Tuesday. Car handled 30 highway miles that day without a problem. Car is garaged on Wednesday and Thursday. It manages 5 highway miles on Friday before low oil pressure indicator comes on and the engine "locks up". Coincidence, missed initial repair, or careless oil change?

Backstory:
Ran into some ~50 lb animal at highway speeds, dead on. Radiator is busted, the "shelf" it rests on needed to be re-welded. I file a claim and get it done. I pick up the car Monday afternoon.

I had my oil changed on a Tuesday morning, then drove about 10 miles at highway speeds home without a problem. My car was garaged for about 3hrs, and then driven another 10 miles at highway speeds before being garaged again for 5hrs and driven another 10 miles back home. All of this driving went without a problem.

My car then sits in the garage for the next 2 days. Throughout this, I don't see any oil in my parking spot.

On Friday night, I go about 5 miles at highway speeds before my low oil pressure light comes on. In the next mile, halfway through my second lane change, my engine becomes audible and shuts down. AAA comes to tow my car and wanted me to turn out a few inches for them to attach the tow, but my car wouldn't start. They pop the hood, catch a whiff of burned oil and give me the "oh shit" expression. It's dark and the flashlight is kind of weak, so they roll up some scrap paper, push it into the engine compartment a little bit, and withdraw a piece of paper with a bunch of oil all over it. I know it's not a mechanic's opinion, but the AAA driver figured my oil change was related to this.

When I got back home, I checked my parking spot again. No sign of oil leakage.

Is my auto shop at fault here? Did the collision shop miss something? Is it a grey area? Is it more likely a coincidence?

I'm just not sure what I should be doing. At this point, they've had my car for ~3 weeks and haven't been able to get it repaired. Word is that they are having trouble locating a suitable "head" for my car. Something about how my particular Toyota Camry uses a chain instead of a belt. It's a 2002 stock LE sedan, about 110,000 miles on it. I'm kind of surprised they can't find parts for it. Before all of this, it was in great condition.

 

[Eli]

Hmm.. It's hard to say. The only thing we know for sure is that your engine appears to have run out of oil.

Did the engine use any oil previously? The oil change is definitely suspicious. They could have forgotten to tighten the drain plug, and it fell out? You would think you would see spots in your driveway if that was the case though.

The collision shop fouling up seems even more unlikely. Does the engine have an oil cooler integrated into the radiator, I wonder?

Good luck proving anything like that, you're almost certainly SOL.

 

[Pandamonium]

The car never had a problem with oil leaks. It got regular changes every 3,000 miles for the first 8 years, and then every 5,000 miles after that. The only repairs its had is a replaced air conditioning compressor and some mild bodywork on the rear passenger-side door.

 

[CurseTheSky]

On Friday night, I go about 5 miles at highway speeds before my low oil pressure light comes on. In the next mile, halfway through my second lane change, my engine becomes audible and shuts down. AAA comes to tow my car and wanted me to turn out a few inches for them to attach the tow, but my car wouldn't start. They pop the hood, catch a whiff of burned oil and give me the "oh shit" expression. It's dark and the flashlight is kind of weak, so they roll up some scrap paper, push it into the engine compartment a little bit, and withdraw a piece of paper with a bunch of oil all over it. I know it's not a mechanic's opinion, but the AAA driver figured my oil change was related to this.

Not to pour salt into a wound, but the bolded part is a major, major problem.

If your oil pressure light comes on, get the car over to the side of the road and turn it off immediately, as soon as it is safe to do so. Running your engine without oil will cause major damage or complete failure (as is the case here).

It's likely not your fault that the oil leaked out, but you should certainly know what to do in the future.

 

[Eli]

Good point, I didn't catch that. Yes, if you would have killed the engine within 10 seconds of the oil light coming on, there likely wouldn't have been any damage. If I saw my oil light come on, I would immediately key off and coast to the shoulder.

The oil light isn't a "low oil pressure" light, it's a "no oil pressure" light.

 

[pauldun170]

Did you call the shop that did the oil change?
Good shops will honestly investigate and cover the damages. Shit like that does happen.

I always check my oil immediately after someone else changes my oil and a quick check on the drain plug\filter for leakage.

 

[angminas]

Yeah, I have to agree...you don't drive a mile or even half a mile with an oil light on. Even if somebody else made a mistake, it looks like you made the crucial mistake. If you're not leaving out something important, I have to pin this on you.

Judgement for the defendant.

 

[Pandamonium]

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. I'm not a car guy so I didn't even know what the light was. My wife looked it up in the manual as soon as I saw it come on. I was caught in a stretch of the highway where there wasn't a sufficiently wide left shoulder and there was no way I could make the 5 lane changes to the first offramp in the traffic at the time.

I had AAA tow it back to my oil change shop. Call me naive, but I trusted them. (That trust has been whittling away though) The story from them is that they couldn't be certain whose fault it was, but they were going to repair it without billing me. The problem is it's been 3 weeks and they're not confident they'll be able to find a suitable "head" in the near future. I think I've made calls to check-in with them about once every 2 business days, and only managed to speak to someone 3 times or so. On most of my outgoing calls, I was told that mechanic A or mechanic B would call me back; and I never received another call. The only time I took an incoming call was after I left an after-hours message on their machine. The phone-tag/lack of communication has made me a bit suspicious about what's been going on.

 

[pauldun170]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm
You dont need to be a car guy to learn how things work.

The "head" is basically the top of the engine and it contains all the little valves that enable your engine to breath air and create combustion.

1. Oil starvation and lock up leads to all sorts of nasty things...one of them is that the head may warp.
FYI: The 2.4 in your Camry has a known issue with stripped head bolts. In case of over heating or seized engine you up the risk of threads going to crap.

The 2.4 in the Camry is used in the Scion Tc and Toyota Solara. The "head" will fit right on the engine block of the Camry.

Since you are not a car guy I will not go into any further detail.
I hope you are covering your ass legally.

(Owner of a 2002 Camry Le 5spd...60K on the clock)

 

[DrPizza]

I know it's not a mechanic's opinion, but the AAA driver figured my oil change was related to this.

Not sure why you consider the AAA driver to not be a mechanic. At least around here, almost all of the guys driving tow trucks are also mechanics.

Anyway, my best guess is that the oil change place didn't put the oil cap back on after filling the oil.

 

[Pandamonium]

FYI: The 2.4 in your Camry has a known issue with stripped head bolts. In case of over heating or seized engine you up the risk of threads going to crap.

The 2.4 in the Camry is used in the Scion Tc and Toyota Solara. The "head" will fit right on the engine block of the Camry.

Since you are not a car guy I will not go into any further detail.
I hope you are covering your ass legally.

Thanks for the info about compatible parts. What do you mean by covering my ass legally?

 

[Greenman]

If the engine ceased from lack of oil, replacing the head isn't going to help. It should be torn down and rebuilt.

 

[angminas]

If you couldn't get over, it may not be your fault in reality. Legally, of course, is a different matter.

 

[nedfunnell]

I might guess that a leak could have developed from a pressurized oil component. All car engines have an oil pump that pumps the oil around the engine- it could be that say, the oil pressure sender was compromised in your impact, and it was spewing oil whenever your engine was running. It wouldn't necessarily leak in your parking spot if that was the case.

 

[LTC8K6]

If the engine ceased from lack of oil, replacing the head isn't going to help. It should be torn down and rebuilt.

Yeah...if you told me the engine seized from lack of oil pressure, and you fixed it by replacing the head, I would give you a dirty look and I wouldn't want that engine in my car...

 

[Meghan54]

Well, don't know exactly what happened in your case, but my brother's shop routinely gets 1-2 cars a month that had an oil change done at Jiffy Lube-type places that was fubar'd. Typically, the "mechanic" at the Jiffy Lube, et al, didn't get the old oil filter's gasket off and put the new oil filter on, essentially giving the oil filter two gaskets. The Jiffy Lube ends up paying for a replacement block.

Naturally, the old gasket lets go in a few miles, allowing the engine to dump its oil. Maybe is what happened here.

Then again, it could be a poorly fastened oil cooler line, if your engine has a remote oil cooler. Don't know if yours does.

It'd be worth having an independent mechanic that you trust go over the car before you allow anyone from where you got your oil changed to touch the car.

 

[pauldun170]

Thanks for the info about compatible parts. What do you mean by covering my ass legally?

A shop has you car and is performing a very time consuming, expensive job.
I would want some sort of paper work stating that they are going to investigate and cover the cost of repair.

Personally, I wouldn't want that engine repaired.
I'd want it replaced with another engine, whether it be salvage or rebuilt engine.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Personally, I wouldn't want that engine repaired.
I'd want it replaced with another engine, whether it be salvage or rebuilt engine.

Well that's just ridiculous. What do you think a "rebuilt" engine is anyway? It's an engine just like the one he has that has been repaired by a mechanic. What difference does it make whether he's getting his own engine rebuilt or taking someone else's engine that was rebuilt? It's the same bloody process either way.

And a salvage engine is just a gamble. You have no idea how it was treated and no way to verify the mileage on it. A salvage engine is the cheap option for folks who can't afford to have their own engine rebuilt.

ZV

 

[LTC8K6]

Well that's just ridiculous. What do you think a "rebuilt" engine is anyway? It's an engine just like the one he has that has been repaired by a mechanic. What difference does it make whether he's getting his own engine rebuilt or taking someone else's engine that was rebuilt? It's the same bloody process either way.

And a salvage engine is just a gamble. You have no idea how it was treated and no way to verify the mileage on it. A salvage engine is the cheap option for folks who can't afford to have their own engine rebuilt.

ZV

Replacing the head isn't rebuilding the engine though.

If he's rebuilding the engine, then fine, but the claim is that after seizing up from lack of oil pressure, they are only replacing the head.

 

[pauldun170]

Well that's just ridiculous. What do you think a "rebuilt" engine is anyway? It's an engine just like the one he has that has been repaired by a mechanic. What difference does it make whether he's getting his own engine rebuilt or taking someone else's engine that was rebuilt? It's the same bloody process either way.

And a salvage engine is just a gamble. You have no idea how it was treated and no way to verify the mileage on it. A salvage engine is the cheap option for folks who can't afford to have their own engine rebuilt.

ZV

Here are the reasons.

1. That block is extremely sensitive and its already had two major events. the initial accident with the busted radiator (wouldn't be surprised if it over heated) and an engine seizure. They are going to have to tear down the engine and already its been indicated that the car needs a new head suggesting that the old head warped due. I wouldn't be surprised if after they get everything back together the 2 bolts at the rear of the engine will just flap around in there as the threads have been shot to crap from all the nonsense. Basically any tear down of the Toyota 2.4 involves the risk of screwing up those threads on reassembly.
Under normal circumstances, this mechanic would have use a special thread repair tool to fix it. but this is not under normal circumstances.
They are covering the cost of this job and they are going to want this to "go away"

2. Time - Its quicker just to toss another engine in there. Salvage engine from a wreck is a gamble but a rebuilt -- rebuilt under normal circumstances and sold through regular channels between shops would better than some crap hole that doesn't even know how to tighten an oil pan plug. (unless they are contracting the work out to another shop). Rebuilds are generally despised by mechanics and it takes up a lot of billable time.

Salvage engine out of a wreck can sometimes be a better option than a rebuilt if cost AND time are a factor. A reconditioned motor (aka rebuilt) is an excellent choice if you are willing to pay.
A rebuilt motor with known manufacturers defect + suffered an engine seizure and may have also experienced an overheating event from the initial collision that already has 110K on it? No thank you. I'll take an unknown quantity at a cheaper price...preferably a wreck with lower miles on the engine.

OP...as soon as you get the car back...consider trading it in for something else.


Keep in mind that I'm not making a general statement and that my opinion on this is based on the engine and the circumstances involved.

 

[hanoverphist]

Good point, I didn't catch that. Yes, if you would have killed the engine within 10 seconds of the oil light coming on, there likely wouldn't have been any damage. If I saw my oil light come on, I would immediately key off and coast to the shoulder.

The oil light isn't a "low oil pressure" light, it's a "no oil pressure" light.

on my truck its a "below 4psi" light. and thats only if it stays on solid, which its only done once after an engine flush. when its low, it will ding and drop to zero, then bounce back up. it starts dinging when im more than 2 quarts low. it holds 6 qts.

 

[hanoverphist]

Well, don't know exactly what happened in your case, but my brother's shop routinely gets 1-2 cars a month that had an oil change done at Jiffy Lube-type places that was fubar'd. Typically, the "mechanic" at the Jiffy Lube, et al, didn't get the old oil filter's gasket off and put the new oil filter on, essentially giving the oil filter two gaskets. The Jiffy Lube ends up paying for a replacement block.

Naturally, the old gasket lets go in a few miles, allowing the engine to dump its oil. Maybe is what happened here.

Then again, it could be a poorly fastened oil cooler line, if your engine has a remote oil cooler. Don't know if yours does.

It'd be worth having an independent mechanic that you trust go over the car before you allow anyone from where you got your oil changed to touch the car.

thats exactly what happened to me in my truck. but it didnt blow the engine. they also didnt admit anything or take any blame, telling me that my truck, which didnt have any visible oil leaks, suddenly popped a main seal and it was blowing oil out while i was driving. i didnt go back there, and i got them to refill the truck with synthetic for free. weirdly enough, my filter was brand new, where the block was doused in oil spatter when i looked under the truck in the parking lot. i kind of wish they did cause a blown engine, id have a new one in my truck!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Keep in mind that I'm not making a general statement and that my opinion on this is based on the engine and the circumstances involved.

(1) There's no indication that there was any overheating due to the prior incident. In fact, the probability is that, since it was a roadkill accident which destroyed the radiator, the engine was immediately shut off. Very unlikely that there was any overheating at all under those circumstances.

(2) Overheating only very rarely affects the block. The chief symptom of overheating is a warped head.

(3) Oil starvation will affect the valvetrain far more than it will affect the block, even the cylinder liners. This makes it at least plausible that the majority of the damage is in the head making it cheaper and faster to just replace the entire head/valvetrain with a rebuilt unit. The cylinders can simply be honed and the pistons re-ringed in most cases which wouldn't require replacing the block. Even if it spun a rod bearing, you still wouldn't need to replace the short block.

(4) None of this changes the fact that what he's going to get back is, for all intents and purposes, a rebuilt engine. The only difference between the shop repairing it using a rebuild from a different supplier is that in his case the core is his own engine, not some random core from another car.

Now, that said, if you want to say, "I don't trust the mechanic to do a good job," that's an entirely different issue. That's fine. But if the mechanic is competent, then there's no reason to prefer someone else's rebuild over that mechanic's.

ZV

 

[wirednuts]

it sounds like they either left the oil cap off (which probably wouldnt sling all the oil out in 30 miles, but who knows)

or they didnt tighten the drain bolt or filter enough. the filter is pretty easy to miss too, ive done it to my own truck where i thought it was tight but sure as shit, it leaked when i drove it.

and for 30 miles, its not a stretch to think the oil drained out completely, you then parked your car (so no oil appears on your driveway) then when you took it for the last 5 miles it finally seized up.

and i wouldnt even let them just replace the head. only do that if you really trust and know your mechanic is good. its usually better and even cheaper to just replace the whole engine with a good used one.

all in all though, i would go after the people who did the oil change. 99% probably their fault. that, or the radiator repair people fucked something (oil cooler lines? or maybe nobody saw broken oil cooler lines?). i dont know.. but best i can tell this is not your fault at all, op. find out what happened first, then figure out who or what did this to your car.

 

[wirednuts]

on my truck its a "below 4psi" light. and thats only if it stays on solid, which its only done once after an engine flush. when its low, it will ding and drop to zero, then bounce back up. it starts dinging when im more than 2 quarts low. it holds 6 qts.

eek... always assume that light never works.

i was really bad to my ranger, i didnt change the mineral oil in it for 15k miles. i think it dumped a whole 1 quart of oil into the drain bucket. was the engine noisier then it normally is? yep. did i ever get an oil light, or see the oil pressure guage drop? no. was my engine close to death? YES. any engine running on 1/5 oil is using 8 of its 9 lives.