norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Good ..... good ..... let the manipulation run through you.

These 2 papers were not distributed in different markets or in order to manipulate.See post #6. Norseamd has admitted he was wrong in post #9 but has not edited this post to reflect that or the show the truth.
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I want to live in the market where the loafer steps up as oppose to rises. Steps up sounds nice and bootstrappy. Rises up sounds a bit too revolutionary.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,325
1,887
126
I could've told you about these things when I discovered early last decade that there really was a tangible connection between the book and film production of "Manchurian Candidate" and the JFK murder. [Look up a paperback book "essay" published in '95 by Simpson -- "Science of Coercion: Communications Research and Psychological Warfare, 1945-1960." What I know, I can only guess that Simpson had suspected, for his quotes from Harold Laswell and Walter Lippmann, and references to an Air Force officer the public knew as "General Y" in a Stone film -- aka Edward Geary Lansdale. The finger doesn't point to him, however, but to a colleague who had "been in the same business" as a "propaganda and psy-war specialist."]

This sort of thing has been going on in my local county and its only newspaper for many years. One edition is published for the little burgs out in the hinterland; another edition is sold in our LA satellite suburb.

It's true, you know, that the public who whines about the "Lamestream Media" is also a public that thinks you're supposed to believe everything that's in print. They themselves will say they're "above that sort of thing." they'll also say they can't be deceived, because they're "smart, they're independent, they're not 'average' or an 'average-of-the-mass.'" They got all their news from the "Lamestream Media" about Hillary Clinton, Benghazi, e-mails, Anthony Weiner, etc., then called "foul" that the Media was being unfair to Trump.

For the belief about how to digest printed information, they're also the crowd that will tell you there really is such a thing as a bad book which you shouldn't read (even to find out that it's a lousy book), the first to pull books off the shelves of high-school libraries like Charles Beard's analysis of the US Constitution. They assume that if you read something, you will believe it, because there's only one Book they really trust, and you have to believe that Book literally.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Does it seem like more and more people are doing less and less basic fact checking now a days?

I've said this before and I'll say it again, trump has normalized stupid.

Dont you think stupid was normalized way before Trump ever came around?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
Interesting.

I could throw a temper tantrum because I was wrong, and start spewing out diatribe that snopes is a vast conspiracy, but Im not that ignorant, and Im willing to accept when I was wrong, and too trusting of what I read.

You posted a god damn meme for Christ's sake! That should have been your first clue that something was amiss. Your second clue should have been the ridiculousness of a national paper with a somewhat reputable reputation doing something so blatant and not hearing about it from any other news source.

I'll accept your apology but this should be a huge wake up call for you.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
Dont you think stupid was normalized way before Trump ever came around?

Yes in the same way that after Obama became president black parents could tell their children that one day they could be president. Its been true for a while now but trump legitimized it.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,325
1,887
126

Golly. That's actually a plausible explanation.

I personally didn't say that there was an outright attempt to manipulate with the different editions, although such is always possible, and I'd seen it occur with the local multi-edition rag. The different headlines of different editions would certainly raise a suspicion, even so. In fact, the biggest most effective manipulators are less likely found in the general media, but you can discover pockets of distortion and bias. You don't need to own the media or even edit the media to manipulate the media. You just have to drop a stone in the water, or skip it across the pond with a certain cover-story or spin. Put out the right bait, the piranha will feed in a frenzy.

The problem with propaganda and psy-war arises from the fact that one needs to prove the suspected distortion was deliberate and calculated. There is a category of "black" propaganda, which proliferates utter falsehood. This bears the risk that the Lie will be uncovered for what it is. If the source of the black propaganda is in some inaccessible country or place where the facts can't be uncovered, the risk is lower to the propagandist.

Otherwise, you need the propagandist to admit to what he does. It's probably more difficult just because you can't easily get a propagandist into an interrogation room for questioning, because it's not a crime. You'd hope it could be a crime, but then the problem is similar to the bias in the legal system. You can tell all the lies you want, as long as you're not under oath.

In that respect, spreading misinformation and distortion has a social cost, forcing people either read and research double and triple time, or leading others toward unfortunate decisions.

Even so, it begs the question as to who was managing the news-room and editing at WSJ. If they didn't want the suspicion, they'd be more consistent. If they thought nobody would suspect, they could do it anyway, and then tell people "Gee. It's just a different edition that goes through editorial changes."

Like Denzel in "Training Day:" It's not what you know; it's what you can prove. If you only suspect something, are you simply going to jettison your suspicions under the challenge of "Prove it!"?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Most people trust what they see on TV or read in a paper/computer.

That means the ones who are producing the content hold power over you.

Why would you let someone control you in this way?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Interesting.

I could throw a temper tantrum because I was wrong, and start spewing out diatribe that snopes is a vast conspiracy, but Im not that ignorant, and Im willing to accept when I was wrong, and was too trusting of what I read.
If you hit a rough patch, just repeat over and over; "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". Those feelings of being manipulated should just melt away.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
If you hit a rough patch, just repeat over and over; "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". Those feelings of being manipulated should just melt away.

And take it from that guy folks! He knows what it feels like to be manipulated and he has accepted it completely and just look at how happy he is!
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,522
15,562
146

Could one of our conservative members clarify for me whether we can trust Snopes?

I've heard from several conservative members that Snopes is run by a bunch of liberal SJWs who try to keep democrats from learning the Truth (TM all rights reserved) by lying (or maybe it's using facts - so hard to tell).

But this seems to say what conservatives want to hear. So should we trust it? Maybe one of our posters who are more versed in the post factual world could fill us in?
 
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