Loud Knock on Your Door Late at Night? Don't Answer it Armed

[Paratus]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...illed_man_in_his_own_home_cannot_be_sued.html
So the victim heard a loud banging on his door while he and his girlfriend were playing video games. He retrieved his firearm and was holding it pointed down when he answered the door. After it opened he backed away and was shot 3 times by a police officer.

The officers never announced themselves nor had a warrant. The victims parents and girlfriend were barred by a court this week from suing due to qualified immunity.

Andrew Scott and his girlfriend were playing video games in their Florida apartment late at night when they heard a loud banging at the front door. Scott, who was understandably disturbed, retrieved the handgun that he lawfully owned, then opened the door with the gun pointed safely down. Outside, he saw a shadowy figure holding a pistol. He began to retreat inside and close the door when the figure fired six shots without warning, three of which hit Scott, killing him. Scott hadn’t fired a single bullet or even lifted his firearm.

What's really interesting is a comment from the dissenting judge about how this affects 2nd amendment rights. If cops have immunity to simply shooting armed home owners how useful are your 2nd amendment rights.

The most fascinating part of Martin’s analysis centered around Sylvester’s insistence that the shooting was justified because Scott opened the door while holding a firearm. This “conclusion that deadly force was reasonable here,” Martin noted, “plainly infringes on the Second Amendment right to ‘keep and bear arms.’ ” Citing the Supreme Court’s decision in D.C. v. Heller, which affirmed an individual right to handgun ownership under the Second Amendment, Martin wrote:

So which is correct?

The court was right. The cops should have qualified immunity to shoot an armed but nonthreating man in his home? If he didn't want to get shot he shouldn't have answered the door armed

The cops and court screwed up. Cops shouldn't shoot a home owner for answering the door armed and shouldn't legally be protected?


I'm leaning towards the cops and courts getting this entirely incorrect. The homeowner wasnt wrong to be armed but ended up less safe because he was armed. He paid the price for it.

Qualified immunity needs to be heavily scrutinized and better training and accountability need to happen with our police forces.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Admittedly I didn't read the link, I do have a feeling there was more going on in the house than video games. Unless the Police were at the wrong house but that's what civil suits are for.

 

[Paratus]

Admittedly I didn't read the link, I do have a feeling there was more going on in the house than video games. Unless the Police were at the wrong house but that's what civil suits are for.

Nope.

Here's the facts from the court case

Consider the events that led up to Scott’s killing. Sylvester had been pursuing a speeding motorcyclist who, he suspected, might be the same motorcyclist who’d recently committed armed assault and battery. (He had no legitimate reason to suspect this particular motorcyclist was the suspect in question.) Sylvester found a motorcycle at Scott’s apartment complex and decided it was the one he was looking for, even though a license plate search revealed no incriminating information. He and three other officers drew their guns and pounded on Scott’s door. When Scott opened it, Sylvester shot and killed him.

 

[Ichinisan]

If it really went down the way the article describes, it's a god damn shame and that officer needs to pay the consequences for it.

 

[Paratus]

Dp

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Nope.

Here's the facts from the court case

So how did this door get knocked on was the victim effectively "swatted"? Seems like something is missing.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So how did this door get knocked on was the victim effectively "swatted"? Seems like something is missing.

Maybe you could read the article and answer your own questions.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Maybe you could read the article and answer your own questions.

Nah I'm delegating

 

[Paratus]

If it really went down the way the article describes, it's a god damn shame and that officer needs to pay the consequences for it.

I agree.

Legally though it seems that the court is saying exercising one right (2nd amendment) means you can lose protections of other rights (4th amendment - loss of life from lack of due process) through application of qualified immunity

 

[Jaskalas]

Legally though it seems that the court is saying exercising one right (2nd amendment) means you can lose protections of other rights (4th amendment - loss of life from lack of due process) through application of qualified immunity

It's the officer's call to judge whether there was a threat. Whether he FELT there was a threat.
Have the laws / courts ever said otherwise?

This has nothing to do with deciding rights, and everything to do with deciding officers can judge a threat for themselves.
If we want this outcome to change... we need to look into alternatives for how this scenario happens. Step by step.

 

[sdifox]

It's the officer's call to judge whether there was a threat. Whether he FELT there was a threat.
Have the laws / courts ever said otherwise?

This has nothing to do with deciding rights, and everything to do with deciding officers can judge a threat for themselves.
If we want this outcome to change... we need to look into alternatives for how this scenario happens. Step by step.

Knock on door, do not announce you are a cop, shoot when in doubt. Got it.

 

[mxnerd]

Florida again? So does this time "stand your ground" work?

No warrant, no identification, killed the wrong person.

Can't sue, even 2nd amendment won't protect you.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

And people thought the Indiana law allowing citizens to shoot cops in self-defense was silly. Here's hoping the pig and his three cohorts are gunned down soon.

 

[Victorian Gray]

And people thought the Indiana law allowing citizens to shoot cops in self-defense was silly. Here's hoping the pig and his three cohorts are gunned down soon.

One does love the internet tuff guys. You so hard, man!

 

[HamburgerBoy]

One does love the internet tuff guys. You so hard, man!

I never said I personally wanted to, I'm no tough guy. I just think it would be a morally justified fate for murderers that got off with nothing.

 

[mxnerd]

OP should change the title.

There are more AT members lamenting a dog killed by New Zealand police than this Florida man who also killed by police..

 

[HamburgerBoy]

OP should change the title.

There are more AT members lamenting a dog killed by New Zealand police than this Florida man who also killed by police..

A lot of people are highly driven by emotion and impulse, which leads to them caring more about cute furry things with big eyes than people. Remember the international outrage over the dentist/poacher luring and killing a lion? He could have been a serial child rapist and it wouldn't have been as big of a deal.

 

[JSt0rm]

gotta water the tree of liberty once and a while. Nothing to see here.

 

[JSt0rm]

A lot of people are highly driven by emotion and impulse, which leads to them caring more about cute furry things with big eyes than people. Remember the international outrage over the dentist/poacher luring and killing a lion? He could have been a serial child rapist and it wouldn't have been as big of a deal.

when is mrs. hamburger having kids?

 

[senseamp]

Curious Florida stuff, thanks for sharing.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So fucked up.

LEO's involved should be thrown in jail, and mauled by bears

 

[KB]

I think both sides are in the wrong. Answering the door with gun in hand is dangerous. Would you answer the door for a solictor or neighbor with a gun? Nope, Gun in pocket or closely accessible but not in hand. I can understand the fear the officer felt.

The officer however didnt announce himself, arrived late at night, had little evidence he had the right guy, had two buddies with him. There were so many different ways to handle it. Its a shame.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Police should ALWAYS be announcing themselves. There is absolutely no reason justifiable NOT to.

 

[senseamp]

He thought he was defending himself, when he was actually committing suicide by cop. It's a sad situation all around.

 

[Paratus]

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/19-year-old-girl-shot-looking-for-help.2352344/

Do you guys remember the thread about the 19 year old who was looking for help and was shot by a home owner on his front porch?How lots of folks were defending the home owners right to defend himself?

Well if it had been the police they would have been right to kill him through his front door according to this ruling.