lots of apple haters. where're the sun haters?

[drag]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: drag
I think they are confusing "open" with "the ability to by individual peices of propriatory hardware and propriatory software and stick them together and have them work with little to no effort except the ability to get $ to pay for it all".


I call this ability 'SHAKA', and the non-ability "YUBAU"

Their just irritated that Apple is non-shaka and completely yubau.

indeed.

if I could dual-boot a Mac OS and XP on a machine that I built myself, I'd do it.

but I'd never pay the money that apple charges for one of their machines. it's too big of an investment for something that I might end up hating.

Yep, x86 = cheap + fast. That's why I use it. (also remember the reason you can't use Windows on PPC is Microsoft's fault, not Apple's)

Genius is often mistaken for insanity.

That, and insanity is a good substitute if you want to fake being a genius.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Sunner
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Jobs is a genius.

Never said anything about that, I said he was a nut.
From what I've heard and read, so was Leonardo Da Vinci.

Genius is often mistaken for insanity.

But they're not mutually exclusive.

 

[tart666]

apple haters get most of their fuel from the fact apple controls both the OS and the hardware... (edit: and sun, sgi, dell proliants are simply not in the same space)

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: tart666
apple haters get most of their fuel from the fact apple controls both the OS and the hardware... (edit: and sun, sgi, dell proliants are simply not in the same space)

how is that different from Sun or SGI?

If I buy apple hardware I don't have to run OS X on it if I don't want, I can't run OS X on x86, but I can't run Irix on x86 either...

 

[jhu]

i prefer my dreamcast with homemade ide controller and hd enclosure.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: jhu
i prefer my dreamcast with homemade ide controller and hd enclosure.

You use a dreamcast.... haha

I knew that they were popular to mess around with, and it was conventient that they came with their own modems and keyboard and such as a option, but I never heard from anybody actually using them for ANYTHING.

What sort of bogomips you pull from that badboy?

 

[tart666]

Originally posted by: drag

Originally posted by: tart666
apple haters get most of their fuel from the fact apple controls both the OS and the hardware... (edit: and sun, sgi, dell proliants are simply not in the same space)

how is that different from Sun or SGI?

If I buy apple hardware I don't have to run OS X on it if I don't want, I can't run OS X on x86, but I can't run Irix on x86 either...

but do you have to buy a microsoft PC when you buy windows?

 

[T9D]

..

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: drag

Originally posted by: tart666
apple haters get most of their fuel from the fact apple controls both the OS and the hardware... (edit: and sun, sgi, dell proliants are simply not in the same space)

how is that different from Sun or SGI?

If I buy apple hardware I don't have to run OS X on it if I don't want, I can't run OS X on x86, but I can't run Irix on x86 either...

but do you have to buy a microsoft PC when you buy windows?

Nope, but I have buy Windows if I buy a Dell or HP computer (well until recently).

And I can go out and buy OS X buy itself if I want. Not that it will be usefull on any x86 machines. The issue is the same with Irix or the sparc versions of Solaris. Actually most closed source OS's are the same. The biggest difference with windows stems from the fact that MS is the only OS manufacturer that doesn't also sell hardware.

Apple computers suck and are totally overpriced.

Thanks for clearing up that issue.

I am sure we all appreciate your input as much as I do.

 

[nowayout99]

I don't personally care about the platform being opened/closed/whatever.

I'd buy a Mac tomorrow to at least toy around with if I didn't feel like I was being ripped off. Even their lowest of the low-end is the $800 eMac... 1GHZ CPU, 128 MB RAM, 40GB HD, Radeon 7500, Combo Drive.

A month ago I built my A64 3200+ with AIW 9600 for around $900... money much better spent for the better performance and storage.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: nowayout99
I don't personally care about the platform being opened/closed/whatever.

I'd buy a Mac tomorrow to at least toy around with if I didn't feel like I was being ripped off. Even their lowest of the low-end is the $800 eMac... 1GHZ CPU, 128 MB RAM, 40GB HD, Radeon 7500, Combo Drive.

A month ago I built my A64 3200+ with AIW 9600 for around $900... money much better spent for the better performance and storage.

Throw in $300 for the OS, a couple hundred for other software...

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
most hate out of necessity. they are gamers, so mac is out of the question to begin with. they can't afford, they instead have to self build a pc anyways...best to denigrate the other team to make yourself feel better about what you can own

Yeah that must be it, it cant be the 2% market share,

Ummm, who cares? Or are you one of the "I wanna be cool too!" people?

misleading ads,

It's called MARKETING. Name a company that puts advertizing out there that is 100% not misleading.

and completely proprietary design.

Did you not read any of this thread? PPC is open. Open Firmware is open. DDR is open. IDE is open. SCSI is open. Firewire is pretty open. USB is open. PCI is open. AGP is open. What am I missing here?

I read it, they use open standards to make a proprietary product on a proprietary OS. How is that hard to understand?

You would say an engine is an open standard too, does that mean Japanese engines always fit in american cars?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

I read it, they use open standards to make a proprietary product on a proprietary OS. How is that hard to understand?

What part is closed? What part is proprietary? Aqua and northbridge. Can you say the same about your Wintel box? Don't complain about proprietary OSes, if you use Windows.

You would say an engine is an open standard too, does that mean Japanese engines always fit in american cars?

But the size and shape of the engine isn't a standard.

This isn't tough to understand. Apples are more open than more people bother to give them credit for.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Okay, there's one thing I hate about Suns - the whacked-out monitor requirements.

- M4H

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Acanthus

I read it, they use open standards to make a proprietary product on a proprietary OS. How is that hard to understand?

What part is closed? What part is proprietary? Aqua and northbridge. Can you say the same about your Wintel box? Don't complain about proprietary OSes, if you use Windows.

You would say an engine is an open standard too, does that mean Japanese engines always fit in american cars?

But the size and shape of the engine isn't a standard.

This isn't tough to understand. Apples are more open than more people bother to give them credit for.

Oh but the speed and size and latencies of ddr are standard?

If you want to upgrade the sound on your mac, what does that entail?

If you want to change CPUs what do you do? Change platforms? Pay thousands?

Im just playing devils advocate really. I would have no problem with MAC if they would push for Windows support on their machines, and brought out OSX for PC. (OSX for PC alone would bring them more revenue than their entire POS PC business after a few years)...

 

[Acanthus]

Edit: The reason i would want Mac to push for Windows support for their machines is it would bring IBM in as a CPU player.

 

[helpme]

Core of Mac OS X - Download it and run it on your x86 machine if you please.

You can't say the same for the Windows kernel.

There aren't any 'Clones' of Macintoshes for the reason that n0cmonkey stated, just like Microsoft doesn't allow 'clones' of Windows (analogous to the x86 machine 'clones').

 

[tart666]

Originally posted by: drag ... The biggest difference with windows stems from the fact that MS is the only OS manufacturer that doesn't also sell hardware.

An important part of that difference is that not only does MS not profit from selling hardware, they also write a lot of free drivers for other people's hardware... Apple, OTOH, sells floppy drives for $100.

between the two, MS's model (free driver support) drives the component cost way down (more competition among hardware makers), while apple's antics keep the component cost up as a part of their business model

a pretty good reason to hate apple...

 

[Cogman]

Ok, you want to know why I hate Apple and not sun or SGI? Its because of the vast number of STUPID Apple fan boys and the fraudulent (see first topic) claims they insisit on making. I about gagged when the G5 came out saying "The worlds fastest, most powerful, PC ever" It claimed to have the first 64-bit Processor, But AMD had clearly released the Optron by then, They claimed to be the fastest, But used THERE OWN BENCHMARKING PROGRAMS, clearly giving them the advantage. And then dell sued them, and won, for lieing.

The sooner Apple goes out of buisness the better, no company, nor its fans, get on my nerves more.

 

[helpme]

Originally posted by: Acanthus


Oh but the speed and size and latencies of ddr are standard?

If you want to upgrade the sound on your mac, what does that entail?

If you want to change CPUs what do you do? Change platforms? Pay thousands?

Im just playing devils advocate really. I would have no problem with MAC if they would push for Windows support on their machines, and brought out OSX for PC. (OSX for PC alone would bring them more revenue than their entire POS PC business after a few years)...

The way that ddr memory is constructed is published. Just because it's published doesn't mean that chip makers have to follow the standard and make their DIMM packaging 184 pins if a buyer wants a special sized package. Apple didn't want a special sized motor, so they just use regular 184 pin or sodimm ddr memory in their computers.

I guess if you wanted to upgrade the sound in your ibook/powerbook/emac/imac you'd have to use a USB or FW(do they make FW soundboxes?) external sound card box like the SB extigy (sp). Powermacs have PCI and PCI-X slots you could just use a regular soundcard in.

Remember that Apple is a hardware company, they don't want to port aqua (darwin is already avaiable for x86) to x86 because it would not allow them to sell as many machines.

 

[robcy]

Dont worry as soon as Sun makes an overpriced home PC, people will hate them for it. In the mean time we have Apple .

 

[helpme]

They can sell us all pizza boxes

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: helpme

Originally posted by: Acanthus


Oh but the speed and size and latencies of ddr are standard?

If you want to upgrade the sound on your mac, what does that entail?

If you want to change CPUs what do you do? Change platforms? Pay thousands?

Im just playing devils advocate really. I would have no problem with MAC if they would push for Windows support on their machines, and brought out OSX for PC. (OSX for PC alone would bring them more revenue than their entire POS PC business after a few years)...

The way that ddr memory is constructed is published. Just because it's published doesn't mean that chip makers have to follow the standard and make their DIMM packaging 184 pins if a buyer wants a special sized package. Apple didn't want a special sized motor, so they just use regular 184 pin or sodimm ddr memory in their computers.

I guess if you wanted to upgrade the sound in your ibook/powerbook/emac/imac you'd have to use a USB or FW(do they make FW soundboxes?) external sound card box like the SB extigy (sp). Powermacs have PCI and PCI-X slots you could just use a regular soundcard in.

Remember that Apple is a hardware company, they don't want to port aqua (darwin is already avaiable for x86) to x86 because it would not allow them to sell as many machines.

I have a SB Extigy and im not so sure it has mac drivers available. (please correct me if im wrong)

Edit: just checked, neither the extigy or the Audigy 2 NS (external version) are mac compatible.

 

[helpme]

I was using the Extigy as an example, given how _great_ creative is with drivers, I wasen't going to be superised if they didn't support the Macintosh at all

I still remember when the stupid SBlive drivers would cause my Dual Celeron 366@550 to crash ever so often due to no SMP support.

 

[GonzoDaGr8]

I guess if you wanted to upgrade the sound in your ibook/powerbook/emac/imac you'd have to use a USB or FW(do they make FW soundboxes?) external sound card box like the SB extigy (sp). Powermacs have PCI and PCI-X slots you could just use a regular soundcard in.

Sorry Charlie...Different firmare and drivers. You cannot go and get just any old Sound Blaster and have it work. You HAVE to get the Mac edition (And I think all they have is the SB Live) at around $100. Compare that to a $30-ish PC SB Live. Same goes for vid cards, be it PCI or AGP, It HAS to be a Mac edition and quite a higher price point than the comparable PC version.