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Lost middle class jobs being replaced with "burger flipping and retail jobs"....gasp

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
699
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http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/lost-middle-class-jobs-being-replaced-burger-flipping-164535060.html

Who would have thought? That damn ole Ross Perot....if only we could turn back time. Just remember boys and girls, service jobs are our way to the future and will be great..........riiiiiiigggggghhhhhttttt!

NELP broke down jobs into low/ middle/and high-wage groups based on median incomes. Looking at the period from early 2008 through the first quarter of 2012, the study found:

"High-wage" occupations accounted for 19% of the jobs lost during the Great Recession and 20% of the jobs gained during the recovery.
"Mid-wage" occupations suffered 60% of job losses during the recession but only 22% of the growth during the recovery.
"Low-wage" occupations accounted for 21% of the losses and a whopping 58% of the growth.
and then there's this....

Beyond the recession itself, several factors are contributing to these trends:

Globalization, which has sent manufacturing jobs overseas
The bursting of the housing market, which crushed the construction industry
Deep cuts in state and local governments, which accounts for 485,000 mainly mid-wage jobs lost since February 2011
Good jobs going overseas hurt the middle class? Wow.....and on top of that, cuts actually mean people losing jobs? Again, gasp.

A real race to the bottom because without a solid foundation, the whole darn building is going to collapse.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,211
4,851
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Hasn't this been the usual result of the at least last 2 recessions. Is it getting worse? Service sector economies aren't going to pay the bills in the long run.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
81
"Mid-wage" occupations suffered 60% of job losses during the recession but only 22% of the growth during the recovery.
"Low-wage" occupations accounted for 21% of the losses and a whopping 58% of the growth.
Ouch.

Not surprising whatsoever though. First world prices and standard of living cannot compete indefinitely with cheap-ass shit from overseas (compounded by currency manipulation).

I bet Perot is thinking 'I told you so...'
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,211
4,851
136
Ouch.

Not surprising whatsoever though. First world prices and standard of living cannot compete indefinitely with cheap-ass shit from overseas (compounded by currency manipulation).

I bet Perot is thinking 'I told you so...'
Yea, that little bastard with the big flappin ears had it right.

(no I was not referring to lyan ryan)
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Lost middle class jobs being replaced with "burger flipping and retail jobs

Good jobs going overseas hurt the middle class? Wow.....and on top of that, cuts actually mean people losing jobs? Again, gasp.

A real race to the bottom because without a solid foundation, the whole darn building is going to collapse.
All by design to get the U.S. at $2hr which is the "Global Economy" going rate.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
81
Another thought: gotta love it that the jobs at the top are staying there (or even expanding) while the middle class gets eviscerated. Ship jobs overseas --> executive salary bonus --> profit!
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,828
430
136
Another thought: gotta love it that the jobs at the top are staying there (or even expanding) while the middle class gets eviscerated. Ship jobs overseas --> executive salary bonus --> profit!
Well we sure as hell know, the top dogs aren't going to ship their own jobs overseas. This is why the top 1% is growing faster than ever and corp profits are skyrockering... they make more money by not having a "middle class" to pay, just themselves and cheap labor overseas. Until the government get's serious about this issue, it will keep getting worse. We need true incentive for this who keep jobs here and real pentalties for those who don't.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
87
86
The free market is a bitch
Bailouts don't happen in free markets.

The rundown is actually this:

Middle class jobs lost -> replaced with low wage jobs

&

For every job created, 3 people go on food stamps currently. So job creation is being outpaced by food stamp applications 3 to to 1.

Don't worry everything's fine. Ohh an iPad, shiny.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
87
86
If you ignore money, and just realize with the baby boomers retiring, there are less people working & more people to take care of.

Their retirement money will not buy as much as they think, period. Ignoring money, there will be less actual goods, wealth and services to go around. So long as there is a large working base to support all the pensions, social security, etc. there are enough REAL GOODS produced that the system works beautifully.

With top-heavy demographics where like there are 2 working age people per retiree, its just ridiculous.

Combine that with youth unemployment, which is the exact opposite of where it should be. Young people should be working their little tails off to make up for the waves and waves of incoming retirees, but that is not the case, it is in fact, the complete opposite. Unemployment decreases with age, increases with youth.

Completely ignoring money, there is still alot of change coming to the workforce. Its not gonna stay the current course. It just can't. Baby boomers gotta retire, young people gotta start working.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
Well we sure as hell know, the top dogs aren't going to ship their own jobs overseas. This is why the top 1% is growing faster than ever and corp profits are skyrockering... they make more money by not having a "middle class" to pay, just themselves and cheap labor overseas. Until the government get's serious about this issue, it will keep getting worse. We need true incentive for this who keep jobs here and real pentalties for those who don't.
Actually they often inadvertently do ship their own jobs overseas. Consider:
1. Gawdawfultek Company manufactures innovative video cards and motherboards. Gawdawfultek is located in the Silicon Valley, a very high cost area of a high cost state, so it pays quite a lot in wages.

2. Gawdawfultek starts to outsource its manufacturing to Smelltek in Taiwan, allowing it to lay off its manufacturing crew, but keeps the design in the USA. Smelltek gains expertise from Gawdawfultek, Gawdawfultek enjoys low labor cost and low regulatory burden.

3. Profits soar, allowing the Gawdawfultek honchos to indulge themselves in the little things like air conditioned golf carts with computerized ball washers, corporate retreats, a corporate jet, and executive assistants with breasts larger than their heads.

4. Gawdawfultek's design engineers, no longer working daily with hardware, start making errors in design. Initially they are small errors, which Smelltek soon learns to find and fix before going to silicon.

5. Smelltek offers to do the board level design for no additional cost. Smelltek avoids the problems in fixing someone else's design, Gawdawfultek enjoys fewer delays and can lay off its design team. Even more profits! The Gawdawfultek honchos can now afford the luxuries that make life worth living, like personal press secretaries, corporate dog walkers, $700 fountain pens, and team-building junkets that would make a Congresscritter blush. At this point, Gawdawfultek refers trade press directly to Smalltek, since Gawdawfultek no longer has anyone who understands the details of current technology. Instead, Gawdawfultek is focused on "the big picture."

6. Smelltek launches its own brand of Smelltek innovative video cards and motherboards, including all those advances its engineers devised but which Gawdawfultek could not think to ask for. The trade press, having worked directly with Smelltek engineers, reviews their products and gives them glowing reviews. Smelltek sells its products for a reasonable mark-up; without the bloated Gawdawfultek profit tacked on, Smelltek enjoys a large competitive edge with profitable products which are better and much cheaper.

7. Enraged at this backstabbing, Gawdawfultek contracts another manufacturer. However, Gawdawfultek no longer has anyone visionary, or even anyone who can design a decent video card or motherboard. The trade press points out that the rebranded Gawdawfultek products are simply hugely overpriced generic crap. Profits drop catastrophically, market share plummets, stockholders revolt, pneumatic-breasted executive assistants become overweight temps, and management is kicked out shortly before Gawdawfultek either goes tango uniform or is bought up at fire sale prices for a few remaining patents from the glory days.

8. Smelltek honchos hire executive assistants with breasts larger than their heads and begin to calculate the profit from moving production to China.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
Everyone wants to keep buying cheap disposeable Chinese made crap yet blame corporations when jobs are lost.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,212
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This isn't a dem vs rep game, unless you're saying that both sides are to blame (because they are).
Damn right I am. The root causes of employment woes have not been addressed, but we had the nice diversion of the stimulus that some are so proud of with the results we see. Yes it is a game that the dems and reps play against us. Bandaids which have no chance to heal. So are the pols stupid or their loyal fans? I'm not pleased with either choice.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
192
106
The article in the OP is one example of why I say the economy will "never" recover.

As long as we have free trade with china, the US economy will continue to free fall.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
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"The report also argues that industry dynamics are playing an important role in shaping the unbalanced recovery. For example, three low-wage industries (food services, retail, and employment services) added 1.7 million jobs over the past two years, fully 43 percent of net employment growth. At the same time, better-paying industries (like construction; manufacturing; finance, insurance and real estate; and information) did not grow, or did not grow enough to make up for recession losses. Other better-paying industries (like professional and technical services) saw solid growth, but not in their mid-wage occupations. And steep cuts in state and local government have hit mid- and higher-wage occupations the hardest.

“In part, we're seeing the continuation of the longer-term rise in inequality, but at the same time, the Great Recession is leaving a very strong imprint,” said Bernhardt. “The financial and housing crises, the loss of manufacturing, and the steep cuts in state and local services – those have all hurt growth in better-paid occupations.”


http://nelp.3cdn.net/c54d93acdb96420855_03m6i2dq6.pdf

Not saying there is not some truth in point of view they are pushing, but they seem to be an advocacy group, not an objective research firm trying to find the real (nuanced) truth from all the noise.

My guess is you would really have to dig deep into the weeds about real breakdown of job losses shed in winter 2008 / beginning of 2009 (and the whoosh down and recovery since then don't necessarily include those highly skilled, high paid jobs that were scared about being let go, but never actually got let go), then compare what has happened there, but not just look at things such as mean or median; you really need to know what the distribution of types of jobs lost and jobs gained to get truer picture of what happened (just like housing prices being skewed down severely early on because only things that sold were foreclosures and short-sales, while there is a nice chunk of higher end homes selling now and supply of new short sales / foreclosures even possibly being artificially constrained).

Average workweek is 2 hours more than Bush years, which if translated into hiring new workers vs. working current ones more, would be an additional 2 million jobs. Corporations have also learned to be even more efficient and productive than before, so they just don't need as many employees to produce same amount as before.

Little dubious of claim Bill Clinton made last night about 3 million job openings that are unfilled because of mismatch between skills required and skills unemployed have (need to go to community college for basic computer skills), but this morning Challenger layoff report says layoffs are at a 20 month low (http://news.morningstar.com/all/dow-jones/us-markets/201209060835/000416/us-planned-august-job-cuts-drop-to-20-month-low.aspx) IIRC, HP and Best Buy were also in midst of restructuring around middle of this year, too.

ADP jobs report (see chart below) beat expectations very solidly this morning, though there are apparently a lot of wild cards that make predicting tomorrow's August BLS jobs report a true random crap shoot (http://www.morningstar.com/cover/videocenter.aspx?id=566804). Earlier this summer, he had been expecting spike upwards in jobs numbers based upon construction workers getting pulled back in by all new housing starts from spring. Kind of mysterious where all of these construction workers went (14% unemployment rate).*

August Monthly Jobs Report (BLS) (to be released tomorrow morning)

"The biggest news next week is the employment report for August. The market is expecting a little payback from an unexpectedly strong report for July. Expectations are for payrolls to grow 120,000 in August compared with the 163,000 we saw in the prior month. Slightly lower initial unemployment claims during the period, a modestly better seasonal adjustment factor, a better retail environment, and more housing starts over the past several months make that estimate seem just a little cautious.

On the other hand, the month of August 2011 and August 2009 were disasters for the employment report. Recall that last year the initial report for August showed no job growth at all (that was later revised to 52,000 private sector jobs added). Also adding a bit of caution is shifting auto industry summer shutdowns that probably helped the July report and will hurt the August report. The July auto employment number looked about 20,000 above the consistent trend of the previous four months. So that means the auto sector could take 20,000 or even more off of the August report. After August, I suspect job growth for the rest of the year to average 160,000-180,000 people per month. That's enough to keep the economy moving at 2% or more but not much help in reducing the ranks of the employed (which total about 13 million)."


http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=566547&part=2






* (Forgot what Warren's Buffet's previous projection (I believe he conceded it was a very optimistic hope at time he made statement) on unemployment rate (7.6%?) last December if housing market came back. If there is a sudden spike up in jobs / decrease in unemployment rate (8% or slightly lower, though it sounds like it really should stay around where it has been recently), guess is all of those missing unemployed construction workers are starting to shown up on official jobs report)
 
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Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
699
126
The article in the OP is one example of why I say the economy will "never" recover.

As long as we have free trade with china, the US economy will continue to free fall.
It's not about "free" (or so called), it's about "fair" (and even then I don't know if that would help). You either keep making stuff and expanding or you do the service (would you like fries with that) and shrink.....creating/making/building stuff makes wealth for all.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,828
430
136
The article in the OP is one example of why I say the economy will "never" recover.

As long as we have free trade with china, the US economy will continue to free fall.
^^ Fuck China. The problem is the corporations have bought and paid for the government and we will never put tariffs against China as that will raise the cost of business here in the US and lower the top 1%'s profit margins.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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^^ Fuck China. The problem is the corporations have bought and paid for the government and we will never put tariffs against China as that will raise the cost of business here in the US and lower the top 1%'s profit margins.
You really think a retail/wholesale company takes the tariffs out of it's own pocket.

Those price increases are past on to the consumer.

Tariff is just another tax on the consumer to protect a business
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,828
430
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You really think a retail/wholesale company takes the tariffs out of it's own pocket.

Those price increases are past on to the consumer.

Tariff is just another tax on the consumer to protect a business
If it keeps jobs in the USA, who gives a fuck. Products are crazy cheap now. I'd rather the USA support itself than China if it means product pricing is a bit higher.
 
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