Looks Like the Arizona Immigration Law is Already Working...

[Freshgeardude]

wow.. typical P&N poster garbage.

When the police "run your information" ... all they're checking is with the DMV to see if your car is registered. Same with you. To see if you have a valid licence and any outstanding warrants.

This is not, and has never been an issue. You want to drive a car? You must be licenced. Your car must be registered.

I've forgotten my licence once before. Got pulled over for speeding. Cop asked for my info... and he came back 10 minutes later with a ticket for not having my licence. He told me " ok... found your licence info with the DMV.. your ok... here's a ticket... take it and your licence to the judge and he'll dismiss the ticket. Next time, keep your licence on you"

I've read the thread thus far, and normally we are on the same side of the issue (dealing with israel) but this is different.

Perhaps it is because you are an israeli immigrant, and i am an natural born american.

The arizona law specifically prohibits racially profiling. Cops today have to make assumptions when the pull people over. They have to "read" people. This is how they catch people drunk or on drugs. They also read people's nervousness and catch drugs or alcohol (for under age ppl).


All this law, is a state enforcement of a federal law. Seriously.

 

[boomerang]

Yes. asking for id is fine.



But what they are also allowed to do:
investigate the status of anyone they reasonably suspect of being an illegal immigrant.




That is profiling.

What would be your suggestion for determining who is here illegally? How would your home country handle it? I'd be very interested in hearing how the Israeli government would deal with a similar situation.

 

[Double Trouble]

I don't pretend to be a legal scholar, so I don't know what the courts will say about the technical legal issues as far as the federal govt and the state etc. I do know that the opposition to the law is based on politics, not legal reasoning, as the folks challenging it (holder and the other scum) said that it was unconstitutional and that they would challenge it before they even actually read the thing.

It appears the law is having it's intended effect even before it goes into effect. Good for AZ. If other states want to be stupid and welcome illegals with open arms *cough* California *cough*, have at it, this is a good opportunity for them to test that supposed net benefit illegals bring to the economy. We'll see how that works out for them. In the meantime, they are leaving AZ, so that's good. Each state that wants to help rid itself of the illegals should pass the same law.

 

[cubby1223]

wow.. typical P&N poster garbage.

When the police "run your information" ... all they're checking is with the DMV to see if your car is registered. Same with you. To see if you have a valid licence and any outstanding warrants.

And the AZ law extends that to "To see if you have a valid licence [sic] and any outstanding warrants and are in this country legally."

Tell ya what, would you be up for making a deal?

The first time a citizen mother is hauled off to jail because she innocently walked down the street to get ice cream for her children forgetting her papers at home, I will go down to Arizona and stand next to you in protest of this law.

BUT - if first a mother is kidnapped or God-forbid killed by an illegal immigrant while she innocently walks down the street getting ice cream for her children, then you must do an about face and support this law yourself

 

[BoomerD]

I don't pretend to be a legal scholar, so I don't know what the courts will say about the technical legal issues as far as the federal govt and the state etc. I do know that the opposition to the law is based on politics, not legal reasoning, as the folks challenging it (holder and the other scum) said that it was unconstitutional and that they would challenge it before they even actually read the thing.

It appears the law is having it's intended effect even before it goes into effect. Good for AZ. If other states want to be stupid and welcome illegals with open arms *cough* California *cough*, have at it, this is a good opportunity for them to test that supposed net benefit illegals bring to the economy. We'll see how that works out for them. In the meantime, they are leaving AZ, so that's good. Each state that wants to help rid itself of the illegals should pass the same law.

Sadly enough, Kahleeforneeya has a similar law already on the books...it's just never been enforced. It was part of the Prop 187 laws...many of which have been shot down by the courts...but Kahleeforneeya just chooses not to enforce the portions that deal with verifying the immigration status of those who come into contact with law enforcement. Kahleeforneeya's law requires immigration status be checked after an arrest, while Arizona's law requires such a check during any type of contact.

"The California law is spelled out in California Penal Code Section 834(b):

(a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully
cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization
Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is
suspected of being present in the United States in violation of
federal immigration laws.
(b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected
of being present in the United States in violation of federal
immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the
following:
(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen
of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent
resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time
or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of
immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not
be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and
place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding
documentation to indicate his or her legal status.
(2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien
who is present in the United States in violation of federal
immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal
justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or
leave the United States.
(3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United
States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal
status and provide any additional information that may be requested
by any other public entity.
(c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city,
county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with
jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent
or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly
prohibited.


I understand some Law Enforcement agencies do follow this law...but not nearly enough.

 

[shortylickens]

I don't pretend to be a legal scholar, so I don't know what the courts will say about the technical legal issues as far as the federal govt and the state etc. I do know that the opposition to the law is based on politics, not legal reasoning, as the folks challenging it (holder and the other scum) said that it was unconstitutional and that they would challenge it before they even actually read the thing.

It appears the law is having it's intended effect even before it goes into effect. Good for AZ. If other states want to be stupid and welcome illegals with open arms *cough* California *cough*, have at it, this is a good opportunity for them to test that supposed net benefit illegals bring to the economy. We'll see how that works out for them. In the meantime, they are leaving AZ, so that's good. Each state that wants to help rid itself of the illegals should pass the same law.

Thats what I'm hoping. When CA has a massive influx and Arizona is relatively sparse of illegals, I'd like to know who ends up with more problems. If its what I think it is, I suspect many other states will follow Arizona.

 

[Jaskalas]

Yes. asking for id is fine.

But what they are also allowed to do:

That is profiling.

Our nation is being invaded. Extreme measures are required to prevent Balkanization. Such a civil divide can lead to genocide and war. We have to uphold our melting pot to ensure assimilation of immigrants.

The current volume is too great, we are fracturing as entire counties and eventually entire states lose American citizens to their new majority population.

Stopping it is a matter of great importance.

 

[Hacp]

First thought after reading the article is poor Pennsylvania lol. I hope all the illegals move to California and drive it into bankruptcy.

 

[Zedtom]

I thought the cops always liked to use the old line: "If you're not doing anything illegal, then you have nothing to worry about."

 

[Lemon law]

Lets see if i can get my arms around the thread contention, the law has not even taken effect but its already working?????????????????????????????????????

Two things to point out.

1. There may or may not be a court injunction that prevents the law from taking effect.

2. Since the legal challenges are based on the constitutional abuse such a law might create, until the law takes effect, there can be no such constitutional abuses to point to. But as sure as God made little Green apples, once the law takes effect, there are likely to be a large number of such constitutional abuses to point to.

And then the real problems will begin. While I think most Arizona law enforcement officers will show common sense and good judgment, we can always rely on some idiots in any profession.

 

[nick1985]

Lets see if i can get my arms around the thread contention, the law has not even taken effect but its already working?????????????????????????????????????

Illegals leaving = working.

yep, you got it lemon, its working!!!

 

[Jadow]

LOL the "toughest imposed by any US state".

If by tough you mean "When a guy gets arrested they are authorized to see if he's a legal immigrant" then yes, MY GOSH THAT IS TOUGH!!!!

LOL, no shlt. Ironically, if they keep their noses clean, they will be fine.

 

[Double Trouble]

Lets see if i can get my arms around the thread contention, the law has not even taken effect but its already working?????????????????????????????????????

Uh, yes. The threat of impending action is causing illegals to leave, thus achieving the intended goal, even before the law actually goes into effect. This isn't rocket science.

Two things to point out.

1. There may or may not be a court injunction that prevents the law from taking effect.

2. Since the legal challenges are based on the constitutional abuse such a law might create, until the law takes effect, there can be no such constitutional abuses to point to. But as sure as God made little Green apples, once the law takes effect, there are likely to be a large number of such constitutional abuses to point to.

And then the real problems will begin. While I think most Arizona law enforcement officers will show common sense and good judgment, we can always rely on some idiots in any profession.

That's probably true. However, even if one or a few officers screw up, it doesn't make the law as a whole unconstitutional -- officers abuse and misuse other laws all the time as well. There's nothing really all that unique about this law, especially since it essentially mirrors federal law.

 

[jpeyton]

Do we have exact numbers, or just some anecdotal evidence of people having yard sales?

 

[nick1985]

Do we have exact numbers, or just some anecdotal evidence of people having yard sales?

The people having yard sales are saying they are leaving. Its straight from the horses mouth

 

[Lanyap]

Do we have exact numbers, or just some anecdotal evidence of people having yard sales?

How would you get exact numbers on something like this? Anecdotal is all you have at this point and that was the focus of the article.

 

[manimal]

Lets see if i can get my arms around the thread contention, the law has not even taken effect but its already working?????????????????????????????????????

Two things to point out.

1. There may or may not be a court injunction that prevents the law from taking effect.

2. Since the legal challenges are based on the constitutional abuse such a law might create, until the law takes effect, there can be no such constitutional abuses to point to. But as sure as God made little Green apples, once the law takes effect, there are likely to be a large number of such constitutional abuses to point to.

And then the real problems will begin. While I think most Arizona law enforcement officers will show common sense and good judgment, we can always rely on some idiots in any profession.

Cant believe someone is actually making sense in this thread... The possibility for abuse in a law like this is what is worrisome.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...e-all-issues/2007/winter/the-teflon-nativists

The intent of the law is a bit more nefarious.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/04/28/hate-group-lawyer-drafted-arizona-anti-immigrant-law/


Have you seen Arpaio's prison camp?


By next year we will see the real economic results of the law. Many people are leaving who pay taxes, buy goods, perform functions and there will be tangible results economically.

 

[Jaskalas]

Illegals leaving = working.

yep, you got it lemon, its working!!!

Maybe he does not want that.

 

[CPA]

not a thing. this, unfortunately is what's wrong with our legal system. ANYONE can accuse ANYONE of ANYTHING without proof.

It then becomes MY BURDEN to prove i didn't do it.

Even tho we have Innocent until proven guilty.... its really Guilty until proven innocent.

Um, not it isn't, you just want to believe that to satisfy your logic.

 

[Svnla]

Where is the link/source of the story?

 

[Lanyap]

Where is the link/source of the story?

Reuters
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=1b3305307938616e

 

[Freshgeardude]

By next year we will see the real economic results of the law. Many people are leaving who pay taxes, buy goods, perform functions and there will be tangible results economically.

lets see if the money arizona loses more "from people leaving who pay taxes, buy goods, perform functions" or the 2.4 billion that illegals strain on arizona's economy.

even if its a tie at exactly 2.4 billions, hell for fun, lets add another billion, the arizona population will in fact be better off. Less unemployment for CITIZENS, etc.

and 1 year isnt REALLY enough, honestly. after a year or two those who boycott the state will quite down and people will forget the boycott because they will need things from arizona.

Look at LA, they wanted to boycott arizona but arizona companies dealt with its power.

 

[spacejamz]

lets see if the money arizona loses more "from people leaving who pay taxes, buy goods, perform functions" or the 2.4 billion that illegals strain on arizona's economy.

even if its a tie at exactly 2.4 billions, hell for fun, lets add another billion, the arizona population will in fact be better off. Less unemployment for CITIZENS, etc.

and 1 year isnt REALLY enough, honestly. after a year or two those who boycott the state will quite down and people will forget the boycott because they will need things from arizona.

Look at LA, they wanted to boycott arizona but arizona companies dealt with its power.

it will be interesting to see the difference for hospitals and schools who provide a significant amount of services to illegal aliens who do not pay into the system.

 

[JTsyo]

100,000 before it became law. That's a whole lot of win there and shows the power of common sense.

100K was from the last law where it was required to use the federal computer system. They don't have any numbers for the current one.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Yes. asking for id is fine.



But what they are also allowed to do:
investigate the status of anyone they reasonably suspect of being an illegal immigrant.




That is profiling.

Sounds ok to me.