Looks like the anti-"used"-phones initiative is taking effect on StraightTalk

[soccerballtux]

Get a signed receipt?

do they give those to you when you upgrade over the phone?

 

[kaerflog]

Hey, at least you can still take these phones outside the country and still use it.
And you can use an ATT phone on Tmobile and vice versa.
Its like the person can report an ATT phone stolen and ATT will block it but T-mobile won't know that. Unless both cellulars report the IMEI to each others.

 

[ilkhan]

If you buy a used phone and don't get a proof of purchase or the original packaging, then you can't blame anyone but yourself if the phone gets banned. Stolen or Not. I had my Galaxy S stolen. Asked my carrier to blacklist the IMEI. Don't know if they actually do it, I hope they do and whoever the buys it from the bastard who stole it deserves to lose their money.

The bastard who stole it gets to keep the money, its the poor sob who buys the used phone and finds out after the transaction that is out the cash.
You're out the phone, buyer is out their cash, and the thief gets off with a profit.

This will discourage theft (slightly if at all), while screwing over the paying customers.

 

[ImDonly1]

Hey, at least you can still take these phones outside the country and still use it.
And you can use an ATT phone on Tmobile and vice versa.
Its like the person can report an ATT phone stolen and ATT will block it but T-mobile won't know that. Unless both cellulars report the IMEI to each others.

Well not really, the reason ATT started doing this is because the FCC I believe asked them to. Pretty much all of the US carriers have agreed to start keeping a list of blocked phones. There will be a main list of blocked phones that will contain phones from every carrier. So yes, you can take it outside the US, but no you won't be able to use it anywhere in the US except maybe on small regional providers who don't participate in the program.

This new program is part of an initiative announced by the FCC during April that creates a joint blacklist of stolen phones shared between Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile. Each carrier is building an internal database over a six-month period. After that point, the databases will be joined together within the following twelve months. Regional carriers also have the option of joining the database during that time frame to get access to the information about blacklisted mobile devices.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/att-customers-can-start-blocking-stolen-devices-on-july-10/

 

[kaerflog]

Well not really, the reason ATT started doing this is because the FCC I believe asked them to. Pretty much all of the US carriers have agreed to start keeping a list of blocked phones. There will be a main list of blocked phones that will contain phones from every carrier. So yes, you can take it outside the US, but no you won't be able to use it anywhere in the US except maybe on small regional providers who don't participate in the program.

Gotcha !!
Well, that sucks.
From here on, when I buy a phone, I will get a receipt in writing that I bought the phone.

 

[deathtrip]

Hey guys,

My name is Shane, and I'm the admin/operator of CheckESNFree.com (mentioned above).

I just wanted to chime in and give my 2 cents worth.

First off, ALL carriers in the USA will be required, by law, to submit Fraudulent and Stolen ESN/MEID/IMEIs into a national database.

Each carrier will be required to check any and all ESN/MEID/IMEIs on their network against this national database.

Currently, AT&T and T-Mobile are blacklisting locally, meaning that a lost/stolen/fraudulent T-Mobile phone will be banned from being used on T-Mobile (and their MVNOs), but still allowed to be used on AT&T, and vise-versa... this is because if the SIM is accepted in the device, it will register to the network and since the networks aren't "sharing information" yet... they don't know that the other carrier has blacklisted the IMEI of the device.

Once the national database is configured and all carriers start reporting/dipping to/from it, you will not be able to use a lost/stolen/fraudulent device on any network, even if the device isn't associated with that network.

We have the ability to verify ESN/MEID/IMEI with Sprint(Boost/Virgin/MVNOs), Verizon, MetroPCS, Tracfone/StraightTalk/Net10, and a few others, and are currently working on getting access directly to T-Mobile and AT&T, and once the national database is compiled (most likely GSMA) then we hope to still be able to work with them, unless they go public.

If anyone has any blacklisted T-Mobile or AT&T IMEIs, you can email them to me for my continuing efforts to bring T-Mobile and AT&T device checking to the world wide web.

shane /@/ checkesnfree.com

 

[lothar]

Stop buying used phones. Problem solved.

 

[lothar]

yes, but that does nothing for you when the owner claims it's "stolen" a month after selling it.
1. take sim card out put in some other cheapo phone
2. sell expensive phone on craigslist
3. wait a week or two claim stolen, phone blocked/deactivated on AT&T+T-Mobile
4. receive free phone from At&T/T-mobile phone insurance!
5. craigslist buyer out to dry

enough people do this/will do this that even if nobody were stealing phones they were just doing this, it would still kill the market.
Having the original packaging isn't going to matter, what you're going to MMS AT&T a picture of it? Or the receipt...
They are quite happy to kill the used phone market now that dual core phones are the norm. Nobody needs to upgrade from that but you have to maintain the growth somehow so just lock down the market!

You sure about this? AFAIK, insurance isn't free.
Most cellphone insurance plans have high $200 deductibles. Which I wonder why people continue to pay $5/month for them.
The same reason why people buy extended warranties from BestBuy...

People are idiots I guess?

 

[gorcorps]

You sure about this? AFAIK, insurance isn't free.
Most cellphone insurance plans have high $200 deductibles. Which I wonder why people continue to pay $5/month for them.
The same reason why people buy extended warranties from BestBuy...

People are idiots I guess?

I believe the high deductible is applicable for lost phones, but not broken phones. So the insurance is still useful to many people from that aspect.

 

[deathtrip]

Stop buying used phones. Problem solved.

Used phones is where it's at.

Big companies such as Gazelle, Recellular, Clover Wireless, CellAgain, etc... they make millions upon millions each year in the used phone industry.

 

[NutBucket]

Verizon & Sprint have blocked stolen phones for ever.

Buying and selling phones is a bit like buying and selling cars. Honest sellers will gladly provide the ESN or VIN and smart buyers will always verify they are legit/clean.

 

[ITBuilders]

smart buyers will always verify they are legit/clean.

Nice in theory, but impossible in practice.

I recently purchased a "clean" iPhone 4 on eBay. Seller indicated he was upgrading to the iPhone 4S and didn't need the old phone.

I called AT&T with the IMEI and serial number to confirm it was free & clear (e.g., not under contract, not blacklisted due to terminated account, not stolen). Two separate AT&T CSRs were unable to provide any information. This wasn't due to corporate policies nor security practices -- they simply were unable to find the information in their systems.

It's possible that neither rep knew how to lookup device serial numbers. It's more likely that they do not have access to nor are trained in retrieving this information. As a consumer, trying to get routed to the appropriate department in a corporate monstrosity like AT&T is futile.

This morning my iPhone was blocked on the StraightTalk / AT&T network -- nine days after successful registration and operation.

There are public & private services to lookup the status and history of property and of vehicles. No such universal service exists for computer and mobile devices. Considering some devices cost more than the P-O-S I drove in high school and college, that's a shame.

Congrats to Shane / deathtrip for his pioneering work on CheckESNFree.com. But until such services work across all networks and are updated by all providers, we have a long way to go.

 

[Ksyder]

snip

Hey Deathtrip, cool to see you around here... seen your posts on HoFo many times of course.

This is a good reason to buy phones from somewhere like Cowboom where at least if there is a problem with a phone you have a 30 day return window.

 

[deathtrip]

Hey Deathtrip, cool to see you around here... seen your posts on HoFo many times of course.

Thank you kind sir.

 

[NutBucket]

Nice in theory, but impossible in practice.

I recently purchased a "clean" iPhone 4 on eBay. Seller indicated he was upgrading to the iPhone 4S and didn't need the old phone.

I called AT&T with the IMEI and serial number to confirm it was free & clear (e.g., not under contract, not blacklisted due to terminated account, not stolen). Two separate AT&T CSRs were unable to provide any information. This wasn't due to corporate policies nor security practices -- they simply were unable to find the information in their systems.

It's possible that neither rep knew how to lookup device serial numbers. It's more likely that they do not have access to nor are trained in retrieving this information. As a consumer, trying to get routed to the appropriate department in a corporate monstrosity like AT&T is futile.

This morning my iPhone was blocked on the StraightTalk / AT&T network -- nine days after successful registration and operation.

Yeah, unfortunately a failure on ATTs part. I've only dealt with Sprint in terms of used phones and all the CSRs know exactly what to do.

I don't see why this is so hard for ATT to implement. Oh wait, it would be something that actually benefits their customers. Never mind, impossible!

 

[Chiropteran]

Yeah, unfortunately a failure on ATTs part. I've only dealt with Sprint in terms of used phones and all the CSRs know exactly what to do.

I don't see why this is so hard for ATT to implement. Oh wait, it would be something that actually benefits their customers. Never mind, impossible!

Did you read the whole story? It sounds like it's impossible for it to ever function in a useful way for used phone buyers.

1- you prepare to buy used phone

2- phone not reported stolen yet. you check with provider, they tell you phone is good

3- you go ahead and buy it and activate service

4- 1 week later, original owner reports phone stolen.

5- phone stops working

There is no way you can avoid this sort of scam, as a used phone buyer. This kills the used phone market.

 

[NutBucket]

So basically you're giving thieves an incentive to continue stealing/profiting under the premise of preventing people from selling a phone and later reporting it stolen for insurance fraud? Obviously neither is morally or ethically correct but why is one scenario better than another? Personally, I like having the ability to have a phone blacklisted and unusable. Can it cause problems? Absolutely. Does it cause more problems than it solves? Probably not.

I'm used to dealing with Sprint/Verizon and I've never had a problem with used phones. They've had blacklists in place for over a decade and I've not heard any complaints about the scenario you describe.

 

[Nothinman]

Did you read the whole story? It sounds like it's impossible for it to ever function in a useful way for used phone buyers.

1- you prepare to buy used phone

2- phone not reported stolen yet. you check with provider, they tell you phone is good

3- you go ahead and buy it and activate service

4- 1 week later, original owner reports phone stolen.

5- phone stops working

There is no way you can avoid this sort of scam, as a used phone buyer. This kills the used phone market.

Sure you can if you have a receipt or other proof that they sold the phone to you. It would definitely be a huge hassle, but it's doable.

 

[kaerflog]

Sometimes in the future we will see some type of certification with phones.
I think this whole blacklist thing is idiotic.
It won't prevent/reduce theft.
I mean stealing a phone doesn't take much effort.
Its a small device. If its stealable, thieves will take it.
They're not going to care if it will activate or not.
It will just help carriers sell more phones because people will be afraid to buy used phones now.

 

[Chiropteran]

Sure you can if you have a receipt or other proof that they sold the phone to you. It would definitely be a huge hassle, but it's doable.

"So how can you prove that you rightfully purchased this phone, Mr Nothinman?" asked the Judge.

"Well I have this receipt, from Mr. Smith, whom I purchased the phone from" responded Nothinman. He then held out the small paper receipt for the Judge to read.

Receipt for one iPhone 4S
$250

Signed Mr. Smith

Pick one:

1) The Judge responded "I'm sorry Nothinman, but that only shows that Mr. Smith sold you the phone, as stolen property it wasn't his to sell, so you are still in possession of stolen property, and I can't force AT&T to reactivate it".

2) Mr Smith suddenly stood up "I object! I never sold that phone to Nothingman and that is not my signature!"

3) "Mr Smith, do you have anything to say?" asked the Judge.
"Yes your honor", responded Mr. Smith, "I did sell the phone to Nothinman, but I had no idea that it was stolen, I only obtained it myself from another seller on craigslist and sold it because I decided I didn't need the phone"

 

[Nothinman]

"So how can you prove that you rightfully purchased this phone, Mr Nothinman?" asked the Judge.

"Well I have this receipt, from Mr. Smith, whom I purchased the phone from" responded Nothinman. He then held out the small paper receipt for the Judge to read.

Receipt for one iPhone 4S
$250

Signed Mr. Smith

Pick one:

1) The Judge responded "I'm sorry Nothinman, but that only shows that Mr. Smith sold you the phone, as stolen property it wasn't his to sell, so you are still in possession of stolen property, and I can't force AT&T to reactivate it".

2) Mr Smith suddenly stood up "I object! I never sold that phone to Nothingman and that is not my signature!"

3) "Mr Smith, do you have anything to say?" asked the Judge.
"Yes your honor", responded Mr. Smith, "I did sell the phone to Nothinman, but I had no idea that it was stolen, I only obtained it myself from another seller on craigslist and sold it because I decided I didn't need the phone"

I don't think the choices are that one-sides, however as I said, caveat emptor.

 

[deathtrip]

The way I understand it, AT&T isn't going to, or said they wouldn't allow blacklisting of IMEIs unless the device in question was active on the account of the individual reporting the IMEI as lost/stolen.

Not sure yet how all of this will play out, but it is my understanding, there has to be some original association with the reporter and the actual device, not just claiming the device was lost/stolen.

 

[kaerflog]

The way I understand it, AT&T isn't going to, or said they wouldn't allow blacklisting of IMEIs unless the device in question was active on the account of the individual reporting the IMEI as lost/stolen.

Not sure yet how all of this will play out, but it is my understanding, there has to be some original association with the reporter and the actual device, not just claiming the device was lost/stolen.

I agree that only the original owner should be able to have their phone blacklisted.
But then there are a lot of original owners that are assholes too.