Looks like Obama is making all the right moves...

[Babbles]

I voted for McCain however I do like many of the picks Obama has been making. In fact I am quite happy with the direction he has gone. I really like the fact that some of the far left liberals have been upset with Obama due to him *gasp* actually making wise and moderate choices.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: RichardE
Though I do agree, if you are fat/overweight due to choice you should pay premiums that cover the expected health cost of your lifestyle.

But we all know that will never happen.

Not yet, we have to wait until being fat becomes politically incorrect. Right now it is just too much big business in people being fat.

It's not just about being fat, as that's not the only poor health choice people are making. People aren't exercising, eating right, stopping smoking, excessive alcohol, and drug use, etc. There's a lot of people taking little responsibility for their own health.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I voted for McCain however I do like many of the picks Obama has been making. In fact I am quite happy with the direction he has gone. I really like the fact that some of the far left liberals have been upset with Obama due to him *gasp* actually making wise and moderate choices.

This. This is exactly why so many moderates voted for him and why it was necessary so many times to debunk the "Obama is a socialist" myth.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I could be getting ahead of myself here but I'm concerned with this. We had a state run health care plan here in Tennessee that failed miserably. I believe it is back to some degree but nowhere near the level it was when the original 'vision' was put into play.

Does anyone know what type of health care plan Obama hopes to achieve?

Maybe it had something to do with the tens of thousands of folks in Tenn'see who were not eligible but received 'state' pharmacy benefits and used them for OxyContin diversion and abuse?

:laugh:

Exactly! And that doesn't even count the people not from Tennessee who were on the rolls. What I'm getting at here is what so many people already know... governments blow at running huge programs. I just hope that whatever type of health care we get is small enough that it can be controlled.

I also hope that anyone who is under this program is forced to undergo necessary "healthy" lifestyle changes if they wish to continue receiving "free" coverage. Smoking cessation, weight management, etc.

I obviously "hope" for most of these things because I've worked hard to be where I am and have a bad feeling we (the "middle" class) are going to bear the brunt of this burden.

Hold on a second, who said anything about government-run healthcare?

CHICAGO - President-elect Barack Obama has chosen former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle to lead his effort to shape an overhaul of the nation's health care system and push it through Congress.

Announcing his choice Thursday, Obama stressed the link between restoring the nation's dismal economy and making health coverage more affordable and accessible to Americans.

"If we want to overcome our economic challenges, we must also finally address our health care challenge. I can think of no one better suited to lead this effort," Obama said of Daschle.

We're talking about healthcare reform. Let's face it, our healthcare system may be one of the best in terms of care, but it's dismal in terms of affordability and accessibility (which further decreases affordability).

I haven't seen anything about a healthcare system run by the government, or free healthcare, or anything along those lines that have so many people riled up. I see the current system with necessary improvements that will not only increase coverage but will decrease cost. Yes, it will cost money to make these improvements, but the future savings will be immeasurable.

Who said anything about free coverage? Are we even reading the same thing?

Let's slow down. There's no need to make unnecessary conjectures about Obama's healthcare plan before it is even released. The time for criticism will come when the details are public.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: RichardE
Though I do agree, if you are fat/overweight due to choice you should pay premiums that cover the expected health cost of your lifestyle.

But we all know that will never happen.

Why not? What prevents the system from having tiered premiums?

If anything, a transparent tiered premium system might even push people to lower their weight, to quite smoking, to quit drinking, etc. Right now health care premiums are essentially voodoo; either your employer is in charge of it or the insurance company assigns a dollar value that seems almost arbitrary, but has some correlation to your habits.

If we require transparency in premiums, then people are more easily able to set health goals. Let's say your monthly premium will decrease by $50 if you can get to 220 lbs, and an aditional $50 if you can reach a certain BMI (say 180 lbs for a height of 6'). Those are hard value, and it's a goal that the 260 lb guy can clearly see. Perhaps he had trouble seeing the health benefits, perhaps he had trouble setting a fair number for himself. Now the number is set; now the benefit to his checkbook is clear.

How could the public not rally behind that? Some fat people may complain, but I'm fairly overweight myself and even I think that's a great idea.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
Yes, but you will only get 40% of your paycheck. So I guess it will be cheaper.

Where do you get those numbers?

Where do you think? How are they going to get all the money for the 'free' health care? Through the taxpayer!! Admittedly I just picked a number it could be higher but aint going to get lower than it is now. Don't be naive to think that for one second that all taxes won't have to be raised significantly on everyone to pay for health care. Medi-Cal in California is in a monetary black hole--where billions go to evaporate. If you pay an avg or 25% now it will have to be at least another 25 or 30% for all the 'free' health care. And to top it all off service and overall care will be worse than it is now.


Daschle is not the right guy for the job--we need someone to change the system and the answer is not UHC. It should be the opposite--more choice, more competition. That is the only way to get things cheaper. If you think dealing with your insurance company sucks, wait til you have to deal with the federal government.

Edit: Just wanted to add: How do you contend that there will be less bureaucracy? When has the federal govt. come in and created LESS bureaucracy?

Do you understand how insurance works? THere are things called insurance companies. See, an insurance company has to make more money from covering you than it spends. Can you comprehend that? That means that it's in their best interests to pay for as little as they can. If they can't make money off you, they just won't take your business.

Tell me what choice a 60 year old person has. Or what about a 7 year old child with a heart murmor? What choice do you think those people have now?

What about someone with diabetes and employer provided health insurance? You know what his choice is? STAY JOB LOCKED. Do you at least understand that? Job locking? Is that a good thing? Is that choice to you?

What about in-network/out-of-network providers? Does having to go to certain doctors and hospitals amount to more choice? Or is that less choice?

Or is choice just a buzzword you throw around without understanding what private health insurance actually is? John McCain's campaign is over- stop parroting that meaningless garbage.

I don't need a lecture from you about how insurance works. I understand it fully. I see the shit every freakin day. I don't like it either. But having our ever efficient federal govt. take over health care should scare everyone.

Do you understand why it's attached to your job?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I contend that the layer of bureaucracy created by going UHC is lesser then the layer of bureaucracy now in place.

I work for the government, so please excuse me if I'm skeptical.

I work in health care so I see both government regs and private industry. He's totally unencumbered by data, so he can make any claim he likes

UHC is probably going to cost somewhere around 2 trillion per year. That's a lot of money. Did I hear Biden once said a hundred billion?

Worse, this won't be about health care providers providing health care, it will be about increasing the power of the government over the governed. It will all be "for your own good"

UHC isn't about health care in the real world, or at least it won't be when it's all done. It will be about politicians controlling health care. I can give HIPPA as an example. What a cluster that was, and that is nothing to the crap stew we'll get here.

 

[Zebo]

Black Bush is no moderate you have been conned and certainly no populist. He has totally appointed pro-war hawks to his cabinet in total contempt for the anti-war left , right, and center who voted for him and his message. These include Likudite Rahm Emanuel, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates a Bush neo-con and hard core Marine Corps General Jim Jones as NSA. Lets not forget his greatest contributors were Wall Street hucksters who Obama joined his 'rivals' backing the 700B$ scam. I'm afraid many of you have a case of willing suspension of critical thought here hoping for the best. Meanwhile Black Bush will continue these wars, these Wall Street favors, Business as usual.