Looks like Bush's troop surge is failing

[ericlp]

Meanwhile... Back here at home... Gang violence is on a rampage... I say time to bust out the national guard! Eh...ooops they are all in Iraq!!!

Back on topic,

Of course it's failing what do you expect???? Lets send more!!!!!!!! What a even more stupid idea! Yeah, yeah! Let's do it!!!

 

[nullzero]

Appearantly insurgents attacked the U.S. outpost with 3 sucide car bombs and over 50 gunmen. Here are some more details on the attack.

"Among these, an attack by three suicide car bombers near a U.S.-Iraqi outpost killed two American soldiers and eight Iraqi police officers, Iraqi officials told CNN.

The U.S. military confirmed the American deaths and said 17 U.S. troops were wounded in the "coordinated attack" north of Baghdad, but it did not reveal the strike's exact location.

Iraqi officials said the insurgents targeted Iraqi police headquarters in Tarmiya -- about 25 miles (40 kilometers) north of Baghdad -- which also houses U.S. troops.

After a series of three suicide car bombings, 50 gunmen opened fire on the outpost, the Iraqi officials said.

Insurgents fired small arms and threw grenades after an initial car bombing, a U.S. military official said."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/20/iraq.main/index.html

It could of been worse with the amount of sucide bombers and gunmen that attacked the base. RIP for the 2 soliders that died in the attack.

 

[Lemon law]

Why would Serial Surge 5.0 be any more successful than the 4 predacessor surges it's accompanying?

Because---as outlined by GWB---serial surge 5.0 is supposed to be setting up shop and staying for the Iraqi police and the Iraqi army---instead of then surging onward to somewhere else allowing the insurgents to go back.---as was the case in the past four surges.

So if you believe GWB&co.---surge 5.0 will be more than a temporary annoyance for the insurgents---but a real challenge that the insurgency must confront.----but the real big hooker is---IF YOU BELIEVE GWB and the plan as outlined.

Even though I am firmly in the GWB&co is a lying sack of **** camp, I am open minded enough to say that it may be the tactic now required----and just point out---if GWB&co. is really going to try it for real---expect US combat deaths to SURGE to 500 or more a month for the next four months.---and its going to take something on the order of ten times the 21,500 now proposed.

Are you warmongers prepared to accept that kind of a butchers bill?

And even if you have the keyboard courage to send others to die---be warned that winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people will also be required---with GWB&co. clueless in that department.---and without major progress in that department---any deaths will just be more wasted human life that accomplishes exactly nothing

 

[ProfJohn]

Ummm hate to rain on the ?surge is a failure? parade and all?

But if you read more about this you will learn that prior to the surge there were 40-50 people dying a day in Baghdad. Even with these two large attacks there are only 20 and 25 people dying on Monday and Tuesday. Now I am not a math professor, but I believe that 20/25 is LESS than 40-50 so even with these two huge attacks the number of people who died in Baghdad is LESS than before the surge!!!
OMG the death toll is DOWN!!!!
Based on your logic this is obviously a sign that the surge is working and we can start planning the victory parade right? :roll:

Link

The U.S.-led offensive against Shi'ite militias and Sunni insurgents had sharply reduced the number of death squad killings in Baghdad when it began a week ago.

But the numbers have begun rising, to 20 on Monday and 25 on Tuesday, a police source said. It had dropped to just three on Sunday and in previous days to around five each day.

Before the crackdown, police had been finding 40 to 50 bodies a day.

 

[Arglebargle]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ummm hate to rain on the ?surge is a failure? parade and all?

But if you read more about this you will learn that prior to the surge there were 40-50 people dying a day in Baghdad. Even with these two large attacks there are only 20 and 25 people dying on Monday and Tuesday. Now I am not a math professor, but I believe that 20/25 is LESS than 40-50 so even with these two huge attacks the number of people who died in Baghdad is LESS than before the surge!!!
OMG the death toll is DOWN!!!!
Based on your logic this is obviously a sign that the surge is working and we can start planning the victory parade right? :roll:

Link

The U.S.-led offensive against Shi'ite militias and Sunni insurgents had sharply reduced the number of death squad killings in Baghdad when it began a week ago.

But the numbers have begun rising, to 20 on Monday and 25 on Tuesday, a police source said. It had dropped to just three on Sunday and in previous days to around five each day.

Before the crackdown, police had been finding 40 to 50 bodies a day.

Part of the standard tactics in a guerilla campaign is not facing your superior enemy in the areas of his strength. Three to four months will tell the tale. I expect the various guerilla factions to change tactics, and be a bit more cautious, probably exporting some trouble elsewhere, while the focus is in Bagdad. Also, since the Shia death squads are so closely associated with the government, they can more easilly drop out of sight for awhile. Now the Al Qaede types may just keep blowing themselves up.

 

[colonel]

It just look like the Tet offensive in Vietnam, the vietcong left the jungle to attack the American bases

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: colonel
It just look like the Tet offensive in Vietnam, the vietcong left the jungle to attack the American bases

I seem to recall the Vietcong got their asses handed to them during Tet, as well. Hmmm . . .

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: colonel
It just look like the Tet offensive in Vietnam, the vietcong left the jungle to attack the American bases

As I understand it, the Tet Offensive was actually a huge American victory; it just didn't play well in the press back home because of the large number of American casualties.

Basically, anytime you kill 10+ enemy soldiers for every one of yours killed (Americans and South Vietnamese), you've handed the enemy an ass whooping. However, because of the total aggregate number of Ameican soldiers killed, it didn't go over real well at home.

 

[Lemon law]

I seem to recall the Vietcong got their asses handed to them during Tet, as well. Hmmm . . .

Xman---you are correct---but just like US Grant during our civil war---they picked themselves up---and kept going---and won in the end.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I seem to recall the Vietcong got their asses handed to them during Tet, as well. Hmmm . . .

Xman---you are correct---but just like US Grant during our civil war---they picked themselves up---and kept going---and won in the end.

They didn't win the war militarily. They won it politically.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I seem to recall the Vietcong got their asses handed to them during Tet, as well. Hmmm . . .

Xman---you are correct---but just like US Grant during our civil war---they picked themselves up---and kept going---and won in the end.

They didn't win the war militarily. They won it politically.

and today we have normal relations with them, as well as importing goods...

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I seem to recall the Vietcong got their asses handed to them during Tet, as well. Hmmm . . .

Xman---you are correct---but just like US Grant during our civil war---they picked themselves up---and kept going---and won in the end.

They didn't win the war militarily. They won it politically.

and today we have normal relations with them, as well as importing goods...

So we just have to sit around and wait for 30 years and this will all be over?

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I seem to recall the Vietcong got their asses handed to them during Tet, as well. Hmmm . . .

Xman---you are correct---but just like US Grant during our civil war---they picked themselves up---and kept going---and won in the end.

They didn't win the war militarily. They won it politically.

and today we have normal relations with them, as well as importing goods...

So we just have to sit around and wait for 30 years and this will all be over?

Is this not what you want from Iraq? Except for the cost of more lives?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: nullzero
"BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents staged a bold daylight assault against a U.S. combat post north of the capital Monday ? first striking with a suicide car bombing, then firing on soldiers pinned down in a former Iraqi police station. At least two soldiers were killed and 17 wounded, the military said."

This has to be the worst idea yet... stationing our troops day and night inside old dangerous Iraqi police stations through out Baghdad. Stationing our troops within the communities gives the insurgents a easy target 24/7, where they can stage attacks from roof tops, alley ways, and civilian buildings...

"The head-on attack north of Baghdad was notable for both its tactics and target. Sunni insurgents have mostly used hit-and-run ambushes, roadside bombs or mortars on U.S. troops and stayed away from direct assaults on fortified military compounds to avoid U.S. firepower.

It also appeared to fit a pattern emerging among the suspected Sunni militants: trying to hit U.S. forces harder outside the capital rather than confront them on the streets during a massive American-led security operation."

Is our military clueless on who we are fighting (fanatical fighters that have no regard for human life)? These insurgents would do anything for a chance to kill a U.S. solider, they would kill themselves and their family just to kill an American solider. We are playing into the hands of Insurgents and terrorist with moving into the communties and fighting street to street combat in Iraq.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

We're trying to clear the insurgents from Baghdad first, so I fail to see how an attack outside of Baghdad means that the surge into Baghdad failed.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ummm hate to rain on the ?surge is a failure? parade and all?

But if you read more about this you will learn that prior to the surge there were 40-50 people dying a day in Baghdad. Even with these two large attacks there are only 20 and 25 people dying on Monday and Tuesday. Now I am not a math professor, but I believe that 20/25 is LESS than 40-50 so even with these two huge attacks the number of people who died in Baghdad is LESS than before the surge!!!
OMG the death toll is DOWN!!!!
Based on your logic this is obviously a sign that the surge is working and we can start planning the victory parade right? :roll:

Link

The U.S.-led offensive against Shi'ite militias and Sunni insurgents had sharply reduced the number of death squad killings in Baghdad when it began a week ago.

But the numbers have begun rising, to 20 on Monday and 25 on Tuesday, a police source said. It had dropped to just three on Sunday and in previous days to around five each day.

Before the crackdown, police had been finding 40 to 50 bodies a day.

Maybe because the Shite death squads are finding less Sunni muslims in their controlled areas. There has been a massive shift of people movement from mixed areas to single secular areas. Iraq has so many people without homes... the Refugee problem is just getting worse by the day.

Another grim reality of the surge is increased deaths of U.S. soliders. We have already surpassed the record for Feb. deaths

Currently stand at:

2/07........63 U.S. solider deaths (month not over yet)
2/06........55 U.S. solider deaths
2/05........58 U.S. solider deaths
2/04........20 U.S. solider deaths

The violence and death trends are still on a upward trend by each passing month.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: nullzero
"BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents staged a bold daylight assault against a U.S. combat post north of the capital Monday ? first striking with a suicide car bombing, then firing on soldiers pinned down in a former Iraqi police station. At least two soldiers were killed and 17 wounded, the military said."

This has to be the worst idea yet... stationing our troops day and night inside old dangerous Iraqi police stations through out Baghdad. Stationing our troops within the communities gives the insurgents a easy target 24/7, where they can stage attacks from roof tops, alley ways, and civilian buildings...

"The head-on attack north of Baghdad was notable for both its tactics and target. Sunni insurgents have mostly used hit-and-run ambushes, roadside bombs or mortars on U.S. troops and stayed away from direct assaults on fortified military compounds to avoid U.S. firepower.

It also appeared to fit a pattern emerging among the suspected Sunni militants: trying to hit U.S. forces harder outside the capital rather than confront them on the streets during a massive American-led security operation."

Is our military clueless on who we are fighting (fanatical fighters that have no regard for human life)? These insurgents would do anything for a chance to kill a U.S. solider, they would kill themselves and their family just to kill an American solider. We are playing into the hands of Insurgents and terrorist with moving into the communties and fighting street to street combat in Iraq.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

We're trying to clear the insurgents from Baghdad first, so I fail to see how an attack outside of Baghdad means that the surge into Baghdad failed.

Its located on the outskirts of baghdad... Having U.S. troops stationed with Iraqi police in Iraqi police stations is part of the new surge plan. Previously we would go out on patrol during the day and go back to U.S. military outposts by night time.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I can see Bush declareing the Surge a victory when Bagdad is a depopulated smoking ruin. What happened to the liberation of Irag? We got the liberation of France right in WWII.