Looking to scratch-build quiet multi-purpose PC - EDIT: now with build

[akilius]

Depends on actual pricing as to which one is worth getting.

Here are the latest for quotes for GTX 770 2GB video cards. Not sure which to choose. Priorities are low noise and durability.

- Zotac AMP! edition: € 260
- Gainward Phantom: € 280
- Asus DirectCU II OC: € 285
- MSI Lightning: € 310

 

[lehtv]

Out of those I'd definitely pick Asus DirectCu II. Zotac is a bit too cheap to be trusted IMO, and DCII definitely beats Zotac's and Gainward's coolers. MSI Lightning is always nice but I wouldn't pay a premium for it, you can just overclock the DCII yourself.

What about MSI GTX 770 Gaming? Should be priced similarly to DCII. MSI is probably a little quieter than Asus.

 

[akilius]

The MSI TF is € 320 here around.

 

[lehtv]

OK just get the Asus

 

[Cerb]

The Noctua is twice as expensive as the THERMALRIGHT HR-02 Macho, so I am not sure it would be worth it.

It won't be. It's a good cooler, but awfully expensive. I don't think it's ever worth it when running stock speed parts.

However, I was wondering if I should replace the original fans in the R4 right away, since some reviews say they are rather noisy. Using 3 be quiet! Silent Wing 120mm would cost € 45 total. Is that worth it in terms of noise reduction? How difficult would it be to exchange the in-built fans after full assembly?

Not difficult at all. Turn the PC off. Disconnect power. Press power button (the failed start should drain most of the capacitors). Remove anything in the way of fan screws. Remove power connector. Unscrew them. Screw in new ones. Connect new ones to power. Fan screws are made for a #2 Phillips. At least, for the rear one. It should be optional on the front ones.

Note that the R4 can take 140mm fans, too.

 

[vbuggy]

The Noctua is twice as expensive as the THERMALRIGHT HR-02 Macho, so I am not sure it would be worth it.

I hear that a lot. Personally I think the performance even at stock speed is worth it since I can run the fans even slower, but then I'm not really a price sensitive guy. I will just buy the thing that works for me.

Regarding fan control, the Fractal R4 has a fan controller for up to 3 fans (2 supplied), so that should cover it.

If you have to futz with fan dials all the time as with an off-mobo controller (unless its a really smart one, and they definitely don't ship with an R4), I don't think it's very smart fan control - bear in mind that the fans are obviously the No.1 source of noise, and the more intelligent control you have over them the more silent your rig can be.

However, I was wondering if I should replace the original fans in the R4 right away, since some reviews say they are rather noisy.

Using 3 be quiet! Silent Wing 120mm would cost € 45 total. Is that worth it in terms of noise reduction? How difficult would it be to exchange the in-built fans after full assembly?

Not hard at all - don't bother replacing them at first.

As for the monitor, being productive means editing photos in my case, so high details and good color reproduction are important for me. I spend very little time on Office docs or similar. Gaming in my spare time, and I am not sure if my intended build would run FPS on high settings at 2560x1440. If so, the Dell 27'' could be an interesting option. Otherwise I would go for the Asus PB248Q with 1920x1200.

I think it makes even more sense in that case, since you can always bump the monitor resolution down for gaming (and I doubt any additional level of lag, if it is there, is enough to disrupt gaming) - especially if you're a casual gamer.

 

[Cerb]

I hear that a lot. Personally I think the performance even at stock speed is worth it since I can run the fans even slower, but then I'm not really a price sensitive guy. I will just buy the thing that works for me.

The Thermalright HR-02 will do that just as well, maybe even with no fan on it. It's when OCing that the Noctua does much better. The HR-02 is only mediocre as an overclocker's cooler.

If you have to futz with fan dials all the time as with an off-mobo controller (unless its a really smart one, and they definitely don't ship with an R4), I don't think it's very smart fan control - bear in mind that the fans are obviously the No.1 source of noise, and the more intelligent control you have over them the more silent your rig can be.

The R4 has a simple switch that changes voltages (I've not checked whether it changes the power rail used, or is just resistors). My first choice for fan control would be a basic ASRock mobo, honestly. Most of them have good BIOS options, the Windows utility is decent, and they tend to have Speedfan compatibility.

 

[mfenn]

I think it makes even more sense in that case, since you can always bump the monitor resolution down for gaming (and I doubt any additional level of lag, if it is there, is enough to disrupt gaming) - especially if you're a casual gamer.

I wouldn't worry about increased latency as much as I would worry about the game turning into a blurry mess with a non-integer scaling factor. You'd have to go all the way down to 1280x720 to get the first integer scaling (1:2).

 

[mfenn]

If you have to futz with fan dials all the time as with an off-mobo controller (unless its a really smart one, and they definitely don't ship with an R4), I don't think it's very smart fan control - bear in mind that the fans are obviously the No.1 source of noise, and the more intelligent control you have over them the more silent your rig can be.

In my experience, case fans are the least source of noise. When you first get the case, you can set them to a noise level that you're comfortable with and pretty much forget about it. The real bear is getting the GPU fan to go low enough while idling. (I'm looking at you Nvidia with your 26% fan speed floor.)

 

[vbuggy]

I wouldn't worry about increased latency as much as I would worry about the game turning into a blurry mess with a non-integer scaling factor. You'd have to go all the way down to 1280x720 to get the first integer scaling (1:2).

I wouldn't go as far as 'blurry mess'. If productivity is more important then this is a totally viable route IMO.

 

[vbuggy]

In my experience, case fans are the least source of noise. When you first get the case, you can set them to a noise level that you're comfortable with and pretty much forget about it. The real bear is getting the GPU fan to go low enough while idling. (I'm looking at you Nvidia with your 26% fan speed floor.)

Maybe you're not as all-aspect noise sensitive and your hearing only reacts to components of the noise in the reference squirrel wheels - I actually disagree a lot with this, especially if you build into a noise insulated case.

However, maybe the 770 is different - my current NVidia experience is only in single-up-to-tri-SLI configs of 780/780Ti/Titans.

 

[mfenn]

Maybe you're not as all-aspect noise sensitive and your hearing only reacts to components of the noise in the reference squirrel wheels - I actually disagree a lot with this, especially if you build into a noise insulated case.

However, maybe the 770 is different - my current NVidia experience is only in single-up-to-tri-SLI configs of 780/780Ti/Titans.

I have a 780 in a 550D (has acoustic padding), and the GPU is definitely the loudest part of my system at idle. Second are the HDDs, and the case and CPU fans are completely inaudible.

That's not really my point though. My second sentence is the important one. To restate: case fans are incredibly easy to control via any number of mechanisms, including the fan controller that comes with the R4. It is very easy to set them to a noise level that you're comfortable with and never mess with it again. In other words, you don't have to constantly adjust them like you were suggesting. The hard part is controlling the fans in "smart" devices like GPUs which may have arbitrary fan speed restrictions.

 

[vbuggy]

Even with a reference card I can't see that being the case. When the case fans go on on my Define at a speed that moves useful (but not ridiculous) amounts of air, I can definitely hear them above even a single reference 780Ti in idle, let alone cards such as the ACX SC. Under mobo control however, the fans stay off in idle, at least at the current ambients - as I said, no futzing, optimal noise profile.

 

[Cerb]

The take-away for the OP: get the ASRock H87 board, and a PCIe card for wireless, and you'll have multiple solid fan control options.

 

[akilius]

Gentlemen,

I made some changes to my intended build, so it'd be great if you could take another look.

Case: Fractal Define R4
Mobo: Asus Z87-PRO (C2) or ASRock Z87 Extreme6/ac (depending on local pricing)
CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 v3
Cooling:THERMALRIGHT HR-02 Macho
Graphics: Asus GTX 770 DCII OC 2GB or Asus R9 280x 3GB (see below)
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x8GB
PSU: SeaSonic 520W Semi-Modular or Be Quiet 530W Semi-Modular (depending on local pricing)
SSD Samsung Serie 840 EVO 250G
HDD Western Digital Blue 1TB
Optical: LG BH16NS40 BluRay burner
OS: Windows 8.1
Display: Dell U2713HM

I was recommended switching to the Xeon, given that I won't OC, since it's higher performance for a minor increase in price and HT may help with photo editing in Lightroom.

Also, I have my sights on the 27'' Dell with 2560:1440 now. For pushing such a high resolution in FPS games at decent settings, the additional RAM offered by the 280x might make it a better choice than the GTX 770 (provided I can source it at all).

I also switched to a semi-modular PSU, simply because I like it tidy.

Any thoughts?

 

[lehtv]

You'll be using most cables anyway and the R4 has plenty of cable management. Modular 520W will be just as tidy as non modular 520W.

Both of the motherboards you picked are quite overkill for that processor. They don't really offer anything substantial over cheaper SLI boards when you don't overclock. In addition, a 520W PSU doesn't support SLI, so you don't even need a Z87 motherboard. I'd recommend Asrock H87 Performance, it's the cheapest board with Realtek ALC1150 sound. (On the other hand, if your intention with picking those motherboards was to support SLI, you'll need a 750W PSU).

HR-02 Macho is overkill if you don't overclock, can you find the True Spirit 120 instead? Or a similar 120mm cooler with lowish minimum RPM and PWM control.

By spending less on the motherboard and cooler, you may be able to increase your GPU budget. A GTX 770 is not always enough for high settings gaming on 1440 - if you can stretch it for an MSI/Asus/Gigabyte GTX 780, that'd be great.

Finally, with your budget I'd probably want to get a Gold rated unit instead of a Bronze unit built on an aging design (though still functional).

 

[akilius]

You'll be using most cables anyway and the R4 has plenty of cable management. Modular 520W will be just as tidy as non modular 520W.

Both of the motherboards you picked are quite overkill for that processor. They don't really offer anything substantial over cheaper SLI boards when you don't overclock. In addition, a 520W PSU doesn't support SLI, so you don't even need a Z87 motherboard. I'd recommend Asrock H87 Performance, it's the cheapest board with Realtek ALC1150 sound. (On the other hand, if your intention with picking those motherboards was to support SLI, you'll need a 750W PSU).

HR-02 Macho is overkill if you don't overclock, can you find the True Spirit 120 instead? Or a similar 120mm cooler with lowish minimum RPM and PWM control.

By spending less on the motherboard and cooler, you may be able to increase your GPU budget. A GTX 770 is not always enough for high settings gaming on 1440 - if you can stretch it for an MSI/Asus/Gigabyte GTX 780, that'd be great.

Finally, with your budget I'd probably want to get a Gold rated unit instead of a Bronze unit built on an aging design (though still functional).

- choice of boards is due to need for wifi/Bluetooth connectivity; though I see the saving potential there

- True Spirit 120M (is that the right one?) is available, though only €5 cheaper than the Macho (€35 vs € 40)

- the Asus GTX 780 would be €440 here (= €160 more than the GTX 770); is it worth the extra buck in terms of speed?

- which Gold-rated PSU would you recommend? I assume I should still try to stay under 600W wattage?

 

[lehtv]

- choice of boards is due to need for wifi/Bluetooth connectivity; though I see the saving potential there

Sry, forgot about that

- True Spirit 120M (is that the right one?) is available, though only €5 cheaper than the Macho (€35 vs € 40)

In Mindfactory it's 28e. You just don't need a massive cooler if you don't OC, the TS120M will keep just as quiet, perhaps even quieter

- the Asus GTX 780 would be €440 here (= €160 more than the GTX 770); is it worth the extra buck in terms of speed?

For 1440p, GTX 780 is 20-25% faster but 50% more expensive. So it's worse bang for buck. Thing is, 770 2GB is a bit sub-par for 1440p, so only get it if you're fine with medium settings in current games. You may also have to upgrade it sooner than you would a 780. Also, 2GB VRAM is not that good for SLI'ing the 770, you'd want the 4GB version for SLI.

- which Gold-rated PSU would you recommend? I assume I should still try to stay under 600W wattage?

Depends on the motherboard choice. For SLI 770, 750W. For SLI 780, 850W. For single 770 or 780, <600W is fine. The 770 4GB path only makes sense if you intend to upgrade to a second 770 soon.

I would get (depending on how high end settings I'm looking to maintain in games):

1. single GPU setup
H87 Performance 80e
Super Flower Golden Green HX550W 72e
770 2GB or 780 3GB (whichever of asus/msi/gigabyte is the cheapest)

2. single 770 with SLI support
Z87 Extreme4 113e
Corsair CS750M 105e
770 4GB

3. single 780 with SLI support
Z87 Extreme4 113e
XFX 850W 140e
780 3GB

And in all scenarios:
Gigabyte Wi-Fi / Bluetooth PCIe card 36e
TS 120M 28e

IMO, scenario 1 with a GTX 780 makes the most sense; you did state in the OP that gaming was only 30% of your intended use, so SLI is unlikely.

 

[akilius]

I won't run a SLI rig, so I will probably bite the bullet and upgrade to the 780. I will go with recommendations for the single GPU set-up. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[lehtv]

Happy to help.

FYI you should put the wireless card in the full length PCIe x16 2.0 slot (the lower red slot) and the graphics card in the 3.0 slot (the upper red slot)

 

[mfenn]

Even with a reference card I can't see that being the case. When the case fans go on on my Define at a speed that moves useful (but not ridiculous) amounts of air, I can definitely hear them above even a single reference 780Ti in idle, let alone cards such as the ACX SC. Under mobo control however, the fans stay off in idle, at least at the current ambients - as I said, no futzing, optimal noise profile.

You might not be able to see it, but it is true.

Keeping the case fans spinning at a very low, inaudible speed will mean that they don't have to change their speed very often, and when they do, it's not very fast or by very much. It sounds to me like you have built too much dynamic range into your fan profile: you only notice case fans spinning up becasue they have to "go loud" in order to combat latent heat buildup.

 

[mfenn]

Happy to help.

FYI you should put the wireless card in the full length PCIe x16 2.0 slot (the lower red slot) and the graphics card in the 3.0 slot (the upper red slot)

Agree, get a wireless card that you can move between boards. Then you won't have to worry about shelling out for a fancy board during future upgrades.

 

[vbuggy]

You might not be able to see it, but it is true.

Keeping the case fans spinning at a very low, inaudible speed will mean that they don't have to change their speed very often, and when they do, it's not very fast or by very much. It sounds to me like you have built too much dynamic range into your fan profile: you only notice case fans spinning up becasue they have to "go loud" in order to combat latent heat buildup.

I think we're done for the purposes of helping out the OP, but no - not at all. I said the case fans turn off when they're not needed, and believe me it makes a difference, because in a roomy case with a good cooler (and dialling down the OC to stock) you do have to crank it up beyond the normal web stuff for the case fans to come on in autumn - winter indoor ambients. You might not be able to hear it, but it's true.