Looking to run Linux

[Quasmo]

I'm looking to install for my very first time. I've been using Windows for 15 years, and the time has come for me to learn Linux. I need some suggestions on which version I should install. I will be running it as a print sever with 6 printers and a file server with 6 500GB HDDs in a 1.81TB raid. I plan on dual booting just wanted to know which distro of Linux I should use.

EDIT: I will be serving Macs with OSX installed. I will be streaming video to the server from the OSX machines.

EDIT 2: I am going nuts. I have tried to install SUSE 10.1 twice and both times it has messed up my boot loader, and I can't load windows, even going into the recovery console and tring to FIXMBR manually nothing helps. I assume its just settings I'm missing. After all the hassle I've decided to install the Ubuntu distro I got. So I'm going to do that now (After windows reinstalls) One of my main problems is drivers, but here are all my questions.

1) How do I install drivers? I have them on a CD, but I dont know where to tell the kernel to load them (will it do it automatically when I unpack them?).

2) When I install are there RAID drivers to install like windows? (It sees the drives to install to) If so, how do install them?

3) How do I get the dual boot setup correctly? Is there something I'm not doing before or durring the install?

Thanks for your help.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Unix or Linux?

 

[Quasmo]

Linux I guess. Is there a big difference. I know OSX is based on Unix, would it be better to use a unix distro rather than a Linux distro. I'm a complete noob when it comes to anything other than Windows or OSX. Thanks for your help.

 

[method9455]

Start with Kubuntu (A specific version of Linux, linux is modular like legos, people package the legos as a distrobution, but there are all differant kinds of distros). I just made the switch from Windows XP to Kubuntu and it worked great. (Kubuntu is actually Debian, the advantage of which is that hte programs are precompiled, someone made an easier to use version called Ubuntu, and then added in the KDE Desktop and called it Kubunto - you don't need to know any of that, its jsut easy to use for the new comer) Your best bet is to defrag your windows drive, burn the DVD for Kubuntu, and follow its installer. Very simple. THe only difficult question is how to format the hard drive. In my case I actually burned all my personal files to about 6 DVDs, and reformatted the harddrive completely.

Usually this is the breakdown. You have an NTFS partion with Windows XP on it. In my case I inserted the XP cd, and when it came to partition options I deleted them all and made a new 30gb NTFS partiton and then installed windows, leaving about 90 GB free on my HD. Windows must be installed first for dual boot. Then I put in the Kubuntu DVD. THe cool thing about Kubuntu (and many version of Linux) is that you can run it completely from your DVD drive. No installatin required. However, it is obviously a little slow this way and the file system is a little wierd. But it makes recovery easy, if anything goes wrong just put in the DVD and boot from that and it is normal Kubuntu.

Anyway back to the formatting. After you have the NTFS file system on there, you need a place for linux (which uses a file system called ext3 for the most part.) but you also want a place for your data that both can access. SO setup the parition table manually (there is an option in the installer) and just partition it so that there is a 30 gb NTFS, an X amount Fat32 (which can be read and written by both operating systems, so this is your data) and then about 10+ gb of Ext3 and a 1.5 gb partition for your "swap" partition. Total, 4 partitions. Minimum: 15 for windows, 10 for linux, 1.5 for swap, and then whatever size data you have.

You have to "mount" the partitions in Linux. the / is Linux is equal to the C:\ in windows. IN the Kubuntu install set nothing for the NTFS, set the 10gb Ext3 for /, set the 1.5 for swap, and then select the Fat32 partion and put it at /media.

The install is actually faster/less questions than an XP install.

If all that sounds complicated, its not. I just started about 2 weeks ago and got it all working first try. You will learn a hell of a lot pretty quick. Your applications for Debian/Ubuntu/Kubuntu come off the internet and are basically automattically installed. Think if the add/remove programs in windows actually added programs too, same idea. I learned basically all there is to know at linuxquestions.org (their forum) and by googling it, although googling kubuntu/ubuntu narrows it down a lot.

 

[drag]

Ubuntu is a good place to start. That's a Gnome oriented. Kubuntu is about the same, just KDE oriented.

Visit Ubuntu's website and look at their FAQ's and find out how to add repositories and install software. It's pretty rare were you go to a program's website and download it from there. Most of the time it's pre-packaged for your system and is aviable via apt-get or whatever.

There is a lot of good documentation out there and most of what you learn with Ubuntu/Kubuntu is directly applicable to Debian and visa versa so Debian documentation is also usefull. There are are a veriaty of newbie-oriented websites were you can find good answers to common issues and helpfull people.

In my sig there are guides from 'the linux documentation project' which will help you learn more of the administrative aspects of Linux systems. Most of what is there in terms of scripting and command line will be aviable in OS X as well (Depending on the version.. Newer ones use Bash shells by default, older ones used tcsh, I think)

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Maybe this site might help you in choosing.

http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/

My vote goes to Suse. Yast is one of the best administration tools I've used.

 

[Nothinman]

need some suggestions on which version I should install.

That's like asking what brand car you should buy, everyone's going to give you different answers, although Ubuntu will probably win out if you actually counted them. Just pick one and run with it, they're all equally capable once you learn how to use them.

 

[unmerited]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Just pick one and run with it, they're all equally capable once you learn how to use them.[/quote]

Very true, but I'm still partial to Suse.


unmerited

 

[Quasmo]

I installed Suse,

EDIT: and now I can't use Windows.

I've reinstalled windows, now I'm looking at ubuntu.

 

[Quasmo]

Should I install 32bit or 64bit? I've got an Athlon 64.

 

[n0cmonkey]

32

 

[notfred]

WTF is the point of a dual boot server machine?

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: notfred
WTF is the point of a dual boot server machine?

well, the machine sits out on the floor of the shop. So if he needs to use certain software thats windows only he can still do that.

 

[imported_LoKe]

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: notfred
WTF is the point of a dual boot server machine?

well, the machine sits out on the floor of the shop. So if he needs to use certain software thats windows only he can still do that.

Most Windows software has a free alternative in Linux.

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: LoKe

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: notfred
WTF is the point of a dual boot server machine?

well, the machine sits out on the floor of the shop. So if he needs to use certain software thats windows only he can still do that.

Most Windows software has a free alternative in Linux.

This software is a $750 color profle for printing on large format printers.

 

[Quasmo]

I am going nuts. I have tried to install SUSE 10.1 twice and both times it has messed up my boot loader, and I can't load windows, even going into the recovery console and tring to FIXMBR manually nothing helps. I assume its just settings I'm missing. After all the hassle I've decided to install the Ubuntu distro I got. So I'm going to do that now (After windows reinstalls) One of my main problems is drivers, but here are all my questions.

1) How do I install drivers? I have them on a CD, but I dont know where to tell the kernel to load them (will it do it automatically when I unpack them?).

2) When I install are there RAID drivers to install like windows? (It sees the drives to install to) If so, how do install them?

3) How do I get the dual boot setup correctly? Is there something I'm not doing before or durring the install?

 

[Nothinman]

1) How do I install drivers? I have them on a CD, but I dont know where to tell the kernel to load them (will it do it automatically when I unpack them?).

Drivers for what? I avoid vendor drivers as much as possible, they're usually crap quality and not maintained well at all.

2) When I install are there RAID drivers to install like windows? (It sees the drives to install to) If so, how do install them?

Well if you're using cheesy onboard RAID I would suggest against that in general. The RAID they provide is really done in software so there's no real performance gain over software RAID. But your main problem will be that you'll want to use a native filesystem for whatever OS you use, so if you use Windows you should use NTFS and if you use Linux you should use ext3. You can possibly mount the filesystem read-only in the other OS, but you won't have a reliable way to write to it.

3) How do I get the dual boot setup correctly? Is there something I'm not doing before or durring the install?

It's been a long time since I've setup a dual boot machine but even if the Linux distro doesn't setup a menu entry in GRUB for you it's not hard to add one.

 

[drag]

1) How do I install drivers? I have them on a CD, but I dont know where to tell the kernel to load them (will it do it automatically when I unpack them?).

The majority of drivers are supplied with the distro and are automaticly installed along with the kernel.

For Ubuntu there is a program called 'module-assistant' aviable for you via the package manager to use if you enable the 'universe' repostitory. It will help you setup the kernel sources and install the development tools nessicary to compile any drivers that are not aviable by the Ubuntu stock kernel.

Look up in Ubuntu's website about how to enable extra repositories and install programs. Then use module-assistant to prepare your system and install any drivers that are not supplied by the kernel and are aviable through Ubuntu repositories.

Sometimes third party kernel modules are aviable already in pre-compiled form through the package management system.

It's pretty unusual you have to mess around with this though except for video drivers. Most everything should 'just work'.

2) When I install are there RAID drivers to install like windows? (It sees the drives to install to) If so, how do install them?

You generally don't want to use the cheapo 'bios-assisted' raid cards regularly supplied on motherboards and such. These things are realy software raid devices that use your system's bios and special hardware drivers to perform the RAID functions using your CPU. "Real" hardware raid is still quite expensive.

If you want RAID under Linux you generally want to use the 'MD' software drivers to setup software raid. These are supplied by default and usually the operating system installer will help you out with setting up software raid. Generally this is better performing and much more reliable then 'fakeraid' drivers. Linux has the best software raid aviable.

The main reason you'd want to use fakeraid drivers is for compatability with Windows systems if your dual booting. These fakeraid things and regular MD software raid is incompatable. Linux has limited support for these things through DM raid drivers, but I don't know much about that sort of thing, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective)

3) How do I get the dual boot setup correctly? Is there something I'm not doing before or durring the install?

Generally you just install Windows first and then install Linux second. If it asks you if you want to install to the MBR then say 'yes'.

If your system boots up in Linux, but lacks a menu entry for Windows or the Windows menu entry doesn't work then you can manually edit the bootloader configuration to make it work.

That's generally all that is needed...

But these fakeraid things can make it difficult. There are tricky work arounds. (not that I know a lot about it.. Ubuntu stuff could have a easy way to handle it. Look in their forums, you won't be the first person to run into these problems) It would probably be much easier to get rid of RAID stuff for now and just do plain installs onto your harddrives.

 

[Quasmo]

I mean, how do install any driver? Where do I go in the Ubuntu GUI or what do I type in the terminal to install drivers. (Like the Manage window the Windows has)

 

[drag]

Most of the time you don't install drivers. 90% of the time everything you need is aviable right from the bat and that's all you'd ever want to use. It's quite a bit different then in Windows.

If you have a Linux driver on a cdrom or whatnot you generally don't even want to use that. You want to use kernel supplied drivers first, distro supplied drivers next, and then third party stuff.

If you do need to install drivers then it realy depends on the drivers. Different people set it up differently. For instance for propriatory Nvidia drivers have a executable that you download and make it executable and then execute it. But you need to had the kernel headers and proper development tools installed.

Debian (and Ubuntu through the universe stuff) have a program named module-assistant that is designed to help you out and make it easier. Other distro have different stuff. Once you have module-assistant running it's pretty self explainatory.

What driver do you think you need? If it's for that fakeraid stuff you'd probably be better off without it. Otherwise I don't know enough about it, but you can probably find very good help at the Ubuntu forums. Search through there and see what you find.

 

[Nothinman]

I mean, how do install any driver? Where do I go in the Ubuntu GUI or what do I type in the terminal to install drivers. (Like the Manage window the Windows has)

In general you don't, most things are supported by the kernel out of the box and will automatically load on boot. For video stuff they usually have an installer script or packages, for instance the nVidia and ATI drivers are available in the restricted and multiverse repositories in Ubuntu. Installing a driver manually usually involves compiling it for your kernel and copying it to the right place, but you shouldn't have to do that often.

Do you have a question about a specific piece of hardware?

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Quasmo
I am going nuts. I have tried to install SUSE 10.1 twice and both times it has messed up my boot loader, and I can't load windows, even going into the recovery console and tring to FIXMBR manually nothing helps. I assume its just settings I'm missing. After all the hassle I've decided to install the Ubuntu distro I got. So I'm going to do that now (After windows reinstalls) One of my main problems is drivers, but here are all my questions.

1) How do I install drivers? I have them on a CD, but I dont know where to tell the kernel to load them (will it do it automatically when I unpack them?).

2) When I install are there RAID drivers to install like windows? (It sees the drives to install to) If so, how do install them?

3) How do I get the dual boot setup correctly? Is there something I'm not doing before or durring the install?

When Suse installed for me it automatically detected my windows partition and added the grub entry for me. I assume it did this for you too? Was there an error I should know about?

 

[Quasmo]

I found my answer when someone mentioned the fact that the raid that is installed is not technically a hardware raid and that performace on those drives are terrible. Which got me wondering why I installed Linux in the first place, because performance from the Mac machines to the server to the RAID was terrible. So I decided to test out what would happen if I transfered to a single disk. As it turns out, the raid performace is so bad that for my solution it warrants a hardware raid, and I will simply run windows off of it. Bleh, I hate working for 3 days on this damn PC only to find out every solution I was looking for was the wrong one. I'm simply going to buy a raid card, and run windows. Maybe I'll run linux on my home box for fun. Thanks for all your help.

-Q

 

[Nothinman]

I found my answer when someone mentioned the fact that the raid that is installed is not technically a hardware raid and that performace on those drives are terrible. Which got me wondering why I installed Linux in the first place, because performance from the Mac machines to the server to the RAID was terrible. So I decided to test out what would happen if I transfered to a single disk. As it turns out, the raid performace is so bad that for my solution it warrants a hardware raid, and I will simply run windows off of it.

Software RAID shouldn't be any worse than a single drive, at least nothing noticable. If it is I would say something else is wrong in your setup too. Infact in lots of scenarios Linux software is faster than a hardware RAID controller.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I found my answer when someone mentioned the fact that the raid that is installed is not technically a hardware raid and that performace on those drives are terrible. Which got me wondering why I installed Linux in the first place, because performance from the Mac machines to the server to the RAID was terrible. So I decided to test out what would happen if I transfered to a single disk. As it turns out, the raid performace is so bad that for my solution it warrants a hardware raid, and I will simply run windows off of it.

Software RAID shouldn't be any worse than a single drive, at least nothing noticable. If it is I would say something else is wrong in your setup too. Infact in lots of scenarios Linux software is faster than a hardware RAID controller.

That's what I thought.