Question Looking to overhaul my ancient computer

[TubeTote]

Hello, looks like nobody has been posting in this thread in a while. I have a really old computer, originally built back when we were still using XP (yes most of those specs at the bottom are accurate, but I have overclocked the CPU to 2.8). I now have the machine running 7 but need a serious overhaul. I want to keep the case because I love it (Antec Aria). The case limits me to a 300 W power supply (it is custom sized), but since I am not a serious gamer it should suffice (though I do want the best possible graphics card that can work with the build and power supply). I haven't built a computer for nearly 10 years so I have not kept up with the current hardware at all. Wondering if someone out there can give me some suggestions. Will need to purchase Windows 10 and would like to keep the hardware budget under $500 (might go a bit higher if it's worth it). Will need motherboard (micro ATX), memory, graphics card, processor (stock fan is usually fine). I can use existing HD and SSD (I use SSD for OS and HD for storage). Can't think of anything else I would need at the time. Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm sorry to inform you this, but DO NOT use a "case PSU" that is only 300W and ten years old for a new build!

 

[TubeTote]

Thanks for the input Larry. I didn't realize that 300W was not enough...I was under the impression that computers had become overall more efficient, and saw some 'middle of the road' GPUs that didn't seem to require much power. Also gathering that the age of the PSU could become an issue. As much as I love the Aria case, maybe I need to reexamine using it for the new build.

 

[Pohemi]

Yeah it's not just the low wattage but the age, and who knows how close to a 'real' 300W it put out when it was brand new. That needs replacing to be confident that the new system can last you years, once again.
If you need a new case, it doesn't need to be fancy per se, but the cheaper you go, the more likely there may be misaligned motherboard standoffs, or fan mount screw holes, etc...just something to consider. Read reviews, they help.

What do you use the PC for?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is modding your existing case to take a newer ATX PSU out of the question? What about a smaller "SFX" or "TFX" PSU?

 

[TubeTote]

Yeah it's not just the low wattage but the age, and who knows how close to a 'real' 300W it put out when it was brand new. That needs replacing to be confident that the new system can last you years, once again.
If you need a new case, it doesn't need to be fancy per se, but the cheaper you go, the more likely there may be misaligned motherboard standoffs, or fan mount screw holes, etc...just something to consider. Read reviews, they help.

What do you use the PC for?

Thanks for the reply. For now I use it mostly for basic computing, nothing really too demanding...but I would like to get Audacity, or some other more basic music production software going, and be able to have at least a decent gaming experience.

Is modding your existing case to take a newer ATX PSU out of the question? What about a smaller "SFX" or "TFX" PSU?

Hmmm...I looked into putting in a conventional sized PSU way back when I originally built the computer because I wanted more power, but was not successful in finding a PSU that would properly fit at that time. I like your idea and need to do a little research regarding SFX and TFX PSU's. That might be my best option if I can make it work.

 

[Pohemi]

The Aria does look like a nice little case, if you can find a newer PSU that will fit. You might not have the newest USB ports at the front of the case but it'd save you some coin and let you keep the case you know you like.

Some of those newer PSUs are pretty compact, being made for mini-ITX or HTPC cases, so something like that might very well work out.

Edit: I did see an Antec branded PSU, same type/size and fit as the 300W that was included in the Aria case, but it was still only 350W. It was on Amazon from a 3rd party seller for $38 shipped (assuming you're in the US).

Most of the higher wattage SFX factor PSUs I've found are pricier too though, like $80+

 

[TubeTote]

Hey thanks for the input, VirtualLarry and Pohemi420...for now, I did go ahead and order the 350W replacement PSU. The 350W PSU came out a bit later when there was a design change in the Aria (mine is the older model), but in the reviews I saw that people had no issues replacing the 300W with the 350W. Great solution for now, and I will look into SFX and TFX PSU's at a later time because it would be great to get something more updated and powerful in the future.

Now on to the rest of the build. This case can have heat buildup issues, so I need to consider that. A low profile GPU works best for air flow. Also need to consider price because I need to try to keep it around $500 - $600 for motherboard, processor, GPU and memory. I might upgrade components at a later time but for now need bang for buck. I'm going to start shopping around and see what I can find, and any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[TubeTote]

The Aria does look like a nice little case, if you can find a newer PSU that will fit. You might not have the newest USB ports at the front of the case but it'd save you some coin and let you keep the case you know you like.

Some of those newer PSUs are pretty compact, being made for mini-ITX or HTPC cases, so something like that might very well work out.

Edit: I did see an Antec branded PSU, same type/size and fit as the 300W that was included in the Aria case, but it was still only 350W. It was on Amazon from a 3rd party seller for $38 shipped (assuming you're in the US).

Most of the higher wattage SFX factor PSUs I've found are pricier too though, like $80+

You are correct in that the front USB ports are the slower ones, but I don't really use them for much. The front even has a port for firewire, which was awesome back when I had a use for it.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You can start hunting for an older low profile vid card or settle for a horribly overpriced GT 1030 within the budget you have.

My advice is buy a $125 Ryzen 3200G $95 ASRock B450M Steel Legend with 2x8GB 3200. Dual channel is a must for APUs. It won't be far behind that GT 1030, and whatever you are playing now will play much better. You can add a GPU in the future when prices are better. You could take your chances with NextWarehouse on a $190 3400G, they claim they will get stock on the 14th. It has SMT which means double the threads of the 3200G and better Vega 11 v. Vega 8 iGPU. Either makes a great ultra budget gamer while waiting out the madness of the GPU market.

 

[Pohemi]

Yeah I started looking last night, but got too tired and trailed off to bed, heh. Sorry.

But I had looked at the 3400G and wondered if it might be sufficient for your uses, as it'd save you from having to try to acquire an almost-guaranteed overpriced GPU in the current market.

The Vega 11 iGPU might be plenty to run your games, depending on what games you are talking about. It might choke a bit on AAA titles like Call of Duty, etc. but should run casual games pretty well, save money/effort in hunting for a separate card, and save power/heat from the system.

 

[TubeTote]

Thanks for the input, guys. I had a look at this model of the GT 1030...

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Great reviews, and from the Q & A it looks like it would do fine with the 350W PSU (just received that yesterday). Some say it runs cool but others that it can have heat build-up issues, and I can admit the fan-less design makes me a bit nervous as the last time I used one in this machine it fried up. I run mostly older games at higher settings (such as Fallout 3, perhaps my fav of all time) and anything newer I am fine with medium to lower settings. I am in agreement that GPUs seem very high priced these days.

I didn't realize that they are making such products like the iGPU, that is an interesting idea and, as you said, might stave off heat problems and save some money. I'm wondering how a set up like this would compare to the 1030 as far as performance.

Time to do some more research. I really appreciate your ideas, thank you.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Thanks for the input, guys. I had a look at this model of the GT 1030...

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Great reviews, and from the Q & A it looks like it would do fine with the 350W PSU (just received that yesterday). Some say it runs cool but others that it can have heat build-up issues, and I can admit the fan-less design makes me a bit nervous as the last time I used one in this machine it fried up. I run mostly older games at higher settings (such as Fallout 3, perhaps my fav of all time) and anything newer I am fine with medium to lower settings. I am in agreement that GPUs seem very high priced these days.

I didn't realize that they are making such products like the iGPU, that is an interesting idea and, as you said, might stave off heat problems and save some money. I'm wondering how a set up like this would compare to the 1030 as far as performance.

Time to do some more research. I really appreciate your ideas, thank you.

If you go 1030, here is a actively cooled model that will save you a little money https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTAC-GeFo...680504?hash=item59429d1678:g:LMMAAOSwBuFeHP5L

 

[TubeTote]

Thank you for that, I would definitely feel better about a fan cooled GPU in this case. Another thing that I noticed is that, when I searched for the GT 1030, there are many suppliers offering a low profile fan cooled version but there are none in stock. Most of the suppliers want for me to reserve the card for future purchase, but with the prices dramatically lower (as in less than half price for ones that are currently shipping). This is making me want to wait for a couple of weeks before purchasing one...or maybe pre-ordering. I'm wondering if the cards will sell out before they are actually available to be shipped. The 1030 does seem like a great fit for my build, but I will keep my options open for now.

This being the case, I think I will focus more on the motherboard, memory and CPU for the time being. I'm researching the ideas that you guys suggested. I may be able to spend a bit more than on the 3200G, and I am leaning towards the GPU over the onboard graphics simply so I can easily upgrade and have more money to spend on the CPU and memory. It does look like the Ryzen 5 series would be the best choice for my needs (basic / common programs, mid level gaming experience, non-professional multi track music recording and rendering). Any thoughts on this is appreciated since there are so many options that it is mind-boggling. I have been using pc parts picker to check for compatibility issues.

Thanks for your input it is very helpful.

 

[TubeTote]

I finally decided on a Ryzen 5 3600...I wasn't going to spend as much on a processor, but I actually found a great deal on eBay (under $200 and free shipping). Only thing is that it is being shipped from S. Korea. It should be here at the end of the week.

Now on to the motherboard while I wait for the ridiculous GPU prices to get reasonable (if that ever happens). I am wondering what anyone might think in regards to the 450 vs the 550 models, since the price differences are not very significant. I need micro ATX and am looking to spend roughly $120 - $140, perhaps slightly more if it is worth it.

ASRock B450M Steel Legend with 2x8GB 3200. Dual channel is a must for APUs.

Now that I have chosen a processor, do you still think that these are a good fit? I don't see any reason to get more than 16GB of memory at this time, but what about the motherboard (trying to understand the advantage, if any, to 550 vs 450). Any specific brands or models of memory that you recommend? Lastly, I am not certain what is meant by dual channel.

Thanks in advance for any advice, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Dual channel means to have two sticks of ram in the proper slots on the board. With AM4, ram slots 2&4 are usually the default for use for 2 sticks. It provides much greater bandwidth than single channel, and will improve performance significantly, even without the onboard graphics involved. Once you pick a mATX board, look at the list of supported ram kits for it, and buy a 2x8GB kit that is on the list, and that fits your budget.

For example: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550M Steel Legend/index.asp#MemoryMS

That has all of the ram kits ASRock has tested to work properly with your CPU, when using the B550M Steel Legend.

Both B450 and B550 will work great with the 3600. And given your usage, neither has any real advantage over the other, so you can't go wrong. Pick one that fits your budget, and has all the I/O ports you want.

 

[TubeTote]

Dual channel means to have two sticks of ram in the proper slots on the board. With AM4, ram slots 2&4 are usually the default for use for 2 sticks. It provides much greater bandwidth than single channel, and will improve performance significantly, even without the onboard graphics involved. Once you pick a mATX board, look at the list of supported ram kits for it, and buy a 2x8GB kit that is on the list, and that fits your budget.

For example: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550M Steel Legend/index.asp#MemoryMS

That has all of the ram kits ASRock has tested to work properly with your CPU, when using the B550M Steel Legend.

Both B450 and B550 will work great with the 3600. And given your usage, neither has any real advantage over the other, so you can't go wrong. Pick one that fits your budget, and has all the I/O ports you want.

Thank you for the information. That B550M looks like quite the beast and it is in my price range. Some of the reviews mentioned large heat sinks that might get in the way with some builds, but I really need good heat management so I see that more as a plus. I'm thinking with a low profile graphics card it shouldn't be problematic.

A quick question regarding memory. I understand 'dual channel' and I have used it on all of my past builds (on others' advice), just didn't realize the term for it. I'm wondering about memory speed. The CPU supports up to 3200 like the RAM you recommended. Any advantage or disadvantage to a RAM speed other than 3200? Are there any other specifications I should look for when choosing the memory sticks?

Appreciate the help!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

3200 is usually the sweet spot for price to performance, but if you can pick up 3600 for near the price, it can net a few more fps. Just remember to make sure to choose a kit validated for your board.

 

[blckgrffn]

Looks like you are well on you way! The 3600 should be a huge jump for you, I went from a 6 core sandy bridge @ 4 ghz and still felt it was definitely a kick in the pants.

I am going offer my 2 cents on the heatsink in your case.

Thermals and space being constrained, I would suggest you take a peak at this guy, which I have found quite functional for the price:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08M5LN45D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am not going to claim it's perfect, but I used it on my wife's PC when I moved my 3600 her new build and it works very acceptably for the price. I like these types of coolers when they can handle the load as they push a lot air down and around critical board bits that handle power delivery to the CPU. There are a bunch of these and they typically max out around 130W but as the 3600 is a 65W CPU they should work.

I think that heatsink, if you could make it work, would offer a lot of flexibility because you could upgrade/change the fan to one that would have the right attributes you want and 12cm is a very common size.

If it doesn't fit, I would just do it "right" and go this route:

Amazon.com: Noctua NH-L9a-AM4, Premium Low-Profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4 (Brown) : Electronics

Buy Noctua NH-L9a-AM4, Premium Low-Profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4 (Brown): CPU Cooling Fans - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Good luck! You are getting a very sweet and big upgrade

 

[TubeTote]

Hello helpful folks on here. I already got my Ryzen 3600...wow, that was incredibly fast shipping. Wasn't due until next week and was here this morning, all the way from S. Korea...kudos to Fedex.

I just ordered the ASrock B550M Steel Legend, got it for about $130 on Amazon, looking really forward to that.

blckgrffn - really appreciate the advice on fans as I may need to go there. Great to have some options in case the stock fan doesn't work out so well. BTW, wondering if anyone might be able to give me any insight regarding the stock AMD fans that come with the processor (in the event I can use it). In the past I have purchased Zalman CPU fans to replace the stock fans, but don't want to replace things that don't need it. This is my first AMD build so not very familiar.

I am now looking at memory. I was planning on 16GB, which is probably plenty for my needs...but does anyone see a reason to go to 32GB? The price difference isn't really that much depending on what brand I get. I was initially planning on Corsair since I have had good experiences with them in the past and looking at this kit:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/mpx2FT/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-cmk16gx4m2e3200c16

I looked at the link that DAPUNISHER put in this thread and saw that it isn't on the list, though the pcpartpicker website says that it is compatible. There is one character in the part number that is different...an 'e' before the 3200 instead of a 'c'. Think that it will matter?

Getting excited to build this machine. Thanks for the input it is really helping!

 

[blckgrffn]

Hello helpful folks on here. I already got my Ryzen 3600...wow, that was incredibly fast shipping. Wasn't due until next week and was here this morning, all the way from S. Korea...kudos to Fedex.

I just ordered the ASrock B550M Steel Legend, got it for about $130 on Amazon, looking really forward to that.

blckgrffn - really appreciate the advice on fans as I may need to go there. Great to have some options in case the stock fan doesn't work out so well. BTW, wondering if anyone might be able to give me any insight regarding the stock AMD fans that come with the processor (in the event I can use it). In the past I have purchased Zalman CPU fans to replace the stock fans, but don't want to replace things that don't need it. This is my first AMD build so not very familiar.

I am now looking at memory. I was planning on 16GB, which is probably plenty for my needs...but does anyone see a reason to go to 32GB? The price difference isn't really that much depending on what brand I get. I was initially planning on Corsair since I have had good experiences with them in the past and looking at this kit:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/mpx2FT/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-cmk16gx4m2e3200c16

I looked at the link that DAPUNISHER put in this thread and saw that it isn't on the list, though the pcpartpicker website says that it is compatible. There is one character in the part number that is different...an 'e' before the 3200 instead of a 'c'. Think that it will matter?

Getting excited to build this machine. Thanks for the input it is really helping!

I believe it that the 3600 comes with the Wraith Stealth cooler and I further the believe that the general consensus is that cooler is only up to the task with a lot of fan noise. Even then, some l long duration CPU tasks can get you to throttle conditions. The Wraith Prism is the more respected cooler but is typically around $15 or more alone and it is my opinion that money is still better spent on a cooler with more upside. I am using (and fighting) a Prism right now as it requires some fan speed still with a 65W cpu and I want it to be quieter.

As for memory, I find pushing to 32GB right now for long held machines is a wise investment. The workstation I use everyday easily exhausted 16GB with Chrome, Illustrator and a few other apps and windows caching. Going to 32 GB of 2133 vs 16GB of 3000 (cpu couldn’t seem to drive 4 sticks at XMP speeds without issues) gave me a much more responsive machine. That and with the unpredictability of supply stuff and the desire to have it all matched for best compatibility leads me to always advise to go big or go home on ram purchases . 4x8 or 2x16, whatever your preference.

I know that’s like saying “it’s only money” but for how long you keep your setups I think it’s money well invested.

Have you already bought a GPU? I have found that eBay and Quadros can offer a lot of value and Quadros are typically very well built and have lower power usage than some of their gaming counterparts. Usually that means lesser performance but in an air constrained setup I think it could work well.

I landed a M2000 for $160 and it’s essentially a 4GB GTX 950 with bells and whistles. A phenomenal value? No. But quiet and capable? Yes.

 

[blckgrffn]

Also, memory deal that is great (imo) for Ryzen 3000 CPUs:

32GB (2x16GB) Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 Desktop Memory from $148.75 + Free Shipping

Newegg has 32GB (2x16GB) Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 Desktop Memory on sale from $148.74 when you apply promo code PCDE in cart. Shipping is free. Thanks to community member lovemydeal for ...

slickdeals.net

 

[TubeTote]

Also, memory deal that is great (imo) for Ryzen 3000 CPUs:

32GB (2x16GB) Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 Desktop Memory from $148.75 + Free Shipping

Newegg has 32GB (2x16GB) Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 Desktop Memory on sale from $148.74 when you apply promo code PCDE in cart. Shipping is free. Thanks to community member lovemydeal for ...

slickdeals.net

Ordered! I agree great deal and highly rated on the websites I checked. Thanks for the tip!

Also thanks for the info regarding the included CPU fan, I will need to look into that a bit further.

 

[blckgrffn]

I've found Quadros like this to offer some value as well (K2200 4GB, $115+tax shipped):

PNY Nvidia Quadro K2200 4GB GDDR5 PCI-E DVI/DP Video Card | eBay

Up for Sale is a genuinePNY Quadro K2200 4GB GDDR5 PCI-E DVI/DP Video Card unit. A representative will respond quickly.

www.ebay.com

That's Maxwell v1 based and should be a big step up from what you are currently running even though it is not fresh itself.

Maybe it's just good enough to power you through to the next release here - hopefully there are more powerful and broadly available cards coming to replace the 1030 and similar cards that have been around quite a while too.

 

[TubeTote]

I've found Quadros like this to offer some value as well (K2200 4GB, $115+tax shipped):

PNY Nvidia Quadro K2200 4GB GDDR5 PCI-E DVI/DP Video Card | eBay

Up for Sale is a genuinePNY Quadro K2200 4GB GDDR5 PCI-E DVI/DP Video Card unit. A representative will respond quickly.

www.ebay.com

That's Maxwell v1 based and should be a big step up from what you are currently running even though it is not fresh itself.

Maybe it's just good enough to power you through to the next release here - hopefully there are more powerful and broadly available cards coming to replace the 1030 and similar cards that have been around quite a while too.

Thanks for the input. From what I am reading in my research the Quadros are not really meant so much for gaming...not much knowledge on the subject of recent APU's, so please correct me if I am wrong.

What I'm looking for is the best card I can put into the build, keeping in mind that my power supply is limited at 350W and I must consider heat buildup in the Aria case. Low profile is practically a must for air flow.

The previously discussed GT 1030 seems like a great option...but I also noticed that the more powerful GTX 1050-ti requires a 300W psu according to the Nvidia website...think that is too much card for this machine? Any other recommendations for APU's?

Thanks so much for all of your help!