Looking to buy a new CPU and Motherboard

[CheerUpEmoKid]

hey guys, my mobo just died on me recently, and in the process of testing it to make sure it was the mobo, i bent some pins on my cpu. i took it to a jewler and he did a great job, except for 1 pin that he ripped off of it .

ok so now for the new mb and cpu discussion. what do you guys think? ive been hearing that the intel chips these days are a lot better and run a lot cooler than amd.

i dont exactly have a set budger, but im a college student and im still paying off my laptop, so i dont have much to spend. im looking to pay less than $100 for my mobo, MAYBE up to about $115. for the CPU, im not sure, id like to spend less than $150. hopefully under $125. i know this is pretty narrow... but i really cant afford much now.

and yes, i know this limits my options a lot

and im guessing most people will probably recommend dual or quad core, right?

here is the mobo i have been looking at:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059


i havent really seen any CPU's to catch my attention yet.

any recommendations appreciated, thanks

 

[Markfw]

Will you OC ? with the new ream of them from Intel, its a sin not to. Many will say get a E2140,E2160,E2180,E2200, or E4300. Pick your poison. Then 2 gig PC-6400 ram, $120 for both possibly.

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

i should also add* i have 2 gigs of ram i would like to keep using. they are 184 pin... does this make a difference?

 

[Jax Omen]

If your RAM you'd like to keep using is the DDR400 in your sig, no, it won't work in any modern system, they all require DDR2 or DDR3 RAM.

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

yeah im planning to OC. this is what someone else recommended, its a little pricy though...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115030

 

[heyheybooboo]

From the Intel side go with the E2200 Allendale 2.2GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W $85
with the ABIT IP35-E Motherboard = $152 AR

or

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Brisbane 65W $78
with the BIOSTAR A770 A2+ AMD 770 $68
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16

Toss in 2gb of DDR2 800, maybe a new HSF .... and you have money left over from your $250 for a case of :beer:

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
From the Intel side go with the E2200 Allendale 2.2GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W $85
with the ABIT IP35-E Motherboard = $152 AR

or

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Brisbane 65W $78
with the BIOSTAR A770 A2+ AMD 770 $68
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16

Toss in 2gb of DDR2 800, maybe a new HSF .... and you have money left over from your $250 for a case of :beer:

I think you mean the IP35-E is $65 AR, not 152

And don't use the AMD system, the Intel is way faster once you OC

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

i cant go with that abit mobo you posted, my psu isnt compatible with it. ive only got a 24 pin and 4 pin connector, i dont have the 8 pin connector for it.

is there anything wrong with the mobo i posted? im not sure about mobos, i dont know whats good and whats not really... i was looking at it, i loved the price, and it was recommended to me, i thought it was good. am i missing something about it?

 

[Markfw]

The one you posted is fine.....

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
From the Intel side go with the E2200 Allendale 2.2GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W $85
with the ABIT IP35-E Motherboard = $152 AR

or

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Brisbane 65W $78
with the BIOSTAR A770 A2+ AMD 770 $68
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16

Toss in 2gb of DDR2 800, maybe a new HSF .... and you have money left over from your $250 for a case of :beer:

I think you mean the IP35-E is $65 AR, not 152

And don't use the AMD system, the Intel is way faster once you OC

If you add together the cost of the e2200 and IP35 = $152 AR


Each system will OC beyond 3GHz and are roughly similar. The question is at what volts and temps will you operate with a 15% OC on the AMD and a 40% OC on the Intel. You are free to believe that the Intel is 'way faster' if you so chose ...

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

oh i forgot to ask this, what about my PSU? is 450W going to be enough for say the mobo i posted and maybe this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115030
overclocked? and the rest of my system of course. the specs in my sig are what i will be using with the exception of the mobo ram and cpu

and what do you guys recommend for ram? im looking for about 2G, dont want to go any lower really. what brand do you think is good? crucial? corsair? gskill?

 

[Markfw]

450 watt is fine if its a good quality. And that CPU is fine, just a little spendy, except harder to OC, due to the high FSB.

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

ok well thats what i wanted to hear, kind of i dont really want to get that cpu, its too expensive for me right now. i wanted to go with one of the E2*** cpus, but someone on another forum said that they wont come close to the E6550. if i overclock the E2160 or E2200, will they be pretty close? or am i way off here?

 

[Winterpool]

The 'Pentium' E2100s are excellent overclockers. An E2160 or E2180 should do fine and cost you $80 or less. If you're going to overclock you might want to see if there are cheaper OEM versions available, since you're going to void the warranty anyhow and might require aftermarket cooling solutions. And, yes, a decently overclocked E2160 will beat the E6750, let alone the E6550.

Overclocking one of these chips to about 3 GHz doesn't take much effort or special kit. This overclocking virgin recently got his E2180 to 2.66 GHz (a 1/3 increase) using the stock heatsink/fan included with the retail package. But like I said, you may want to seek out an OEM chip and buy a $20 to $30 cooler separately. Getting to 3+ GHz should be a cinch.

 

[Winterpool]

By the way, the $30 rebate on the Abit IP35-E board is back, though the pre-rebate price is now $95 not $90, and they're currently out of stock at Newegg. Are you planning to re-use your Antec Sonata II and its SmartPower unit? I recall reading your previous thread: did you ever establish if the power supply may have played a role in crippling your old system? Some SmartPower supplies weren't of the best a couple of years back: you can periodically find modern Antec power supplies for $30ish or less after rebate.

Also, if your power supply can power the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, it certainly should work on the Abit IP35-E. Quoting SerpentRoyal: 'The 8-pin/4-pin power plug is located just above the MOSFET heat sink. Use the lower 4-pin plug if the PSU lacks an 8-pin plug.' I've heard some punters have had difficulty getting really big overclocks when using the 4-pin, but others have manged just fine. Anyhow both the Gigabyte and Abit are excellent sub-$100 P35 boards, so you should do fine with either.

And you will need new memory, right, 'cause your old memory is DDR PC3200? Corsair has been offering rebates for a month or two now, bringing their PC2 6400 memory to under $30 after rebate for 2 GB. You probably won't need CL4 memory, and it might be a pain making sure you supply sufficient voltage on the initial POST, so I'd say go with the CL5 memory linked above. The pre-rebate price is only $52.

 

[v8envy]

Regarding the 67% OC on the E2XXX intel chips -- they're severely underclocked for marketing reasons. I see absolutely *ZERO* *ZILCH* *NADA* increase in temperature at idle or load running at 2.66 ghz vs a stock frequency of 2.0. In fact, my temperatures at load are about 5 degrees lower since I'm undervolting my chip at that speed by 8%. At 3.33 ghz and 1.41v with the stock heatsink and compond, yes, I was looking at uncomfortable (yet still well within spec) temperatures at load. You'd need a 3.7 ghz Brisbane to match that in the likely case, and around a 6 ghz worst case (encoding). Want to speculate what voltages and temperatures that would run at if that were possible?

The same exact chips are sold as 1.6 through 2.2 ghz with the exact same heatsinks. They don't seem to be binned by capability at the low end, but purely by market requirements.

Add in the fact that brisbane AMDs are 10-20% slower at the same clock and yes, the Intel low end CPUs are -=> SIGNIFICANTLY <=- better buys for a gaming machine.

$50 AMD + $50 board with integrated video = win. If you want budget performance with add-in video it's Intel all the way.

Edit: why do people keep recommending expensive ram for the E2XXX overclocks? Yes, you need PC6400 ram to make an AMD perform, but the 667 mhz ram is all you need to hit 3 ghz with a 2160, 3.33 with a 2180 or a flaming slagheap with a 2200. Plus quality 667 mhz ram will run at 800 just fine at slightly relaxed timings if you got an E2140 that needs some FSB loving.

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

lol im not sure exactly what you guys said, but it sounds good would you recommend the E2160 or the E2200? i dont think i plan on overclocking over 3.0ghz, so should i just go for the E2160?

 

[Winterpool]

v8envy's post suggests that all of the Pentium Es are essentially the same, just labelled differently. So if the E2160 is a few bucks cheaper, you're probably safe going with that: it should overclock just as well as the E2180 or E2200. Of course at stock speed it will be slower. He's also correct that you don't require PC2 6400 (ie 800 MHz) memory, because you won't be overclocking your FSB and memory to those speeds. 667 MHz (ie PC2 5300) would be sufficient. I recommended PC2 6400 memory because it's so darn cheap, and it would be useful if you later bought a more expensive chip (eg a Wolfdale-based Core 2 Duo).

I remain somewhat uneasy about your power supply: how long ago did you buy your Antec case? Are you sure it played no role in your past difficulities?

But to sum up what I've written so far:

- buy a Pentium E for <$80 and overclock as necessary; $170 on an E6550 is too much and it will be outperformed by an overclocked Pentium E anyhow (if you're able to spend $200+ on an E8400, Q6600, etc, well that's another story)
- buy a good sub-$100 P35 motherboard (eg the Gigabyte you linked or the Abit IP35-E)
- memory is cheap
- overclocking the Pentium shouldn't be hard

New internals for your computer capable of running at near 3 GHz shouldn't cost you much more than $200 that way. $80 to 90ish for the board; $80ish for the cpu; less than $30 for 2 GB of memory ($50ish before rebates).

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

sounds great, sounds like you really know your stuff, Winterpool thanks a lot for the help. i think im going to to with that ram you linked from zipzoomfly, the E2160 from newegg, and im not sure which mobo yet. it seems like you guys are leaning towards the abit as a better choice than the gigabyte.

im not positive, but im pretty sure my PSU is fine. im using it right now on an old mobo and intel chip. socket 478 and no PCIe so i cant use them in the future really... working great. i tested my brothers power supply on my old pc before i messed it all up badly and it still shut off on me, so thats how i made sure it was the mobo. my brother's psu is the exact same as mine btw, antec sp 450w.

ive owned the case and psu for roughly 1 year now, maybe 14-16 months...

i should also add, i have never overclocked anything before, but i did unlock my video card (x800GTO2) to 16 pipelines. im not too nervous about overclocking because ive read a lot about it and how easy people say it is.

one more question, if i were to use the mail in rebates on the corsair ram and abit mobo, how long does it usually take to get the money back?

 

[Winterpool]

I noticed the Abit rebate was addressed to their own office in California (I believe) and not one of the usual three or four massive rebate-processing services. Dunno when I should expect it. You'll find punters here who got it back after a month, and others after four months. My Corsair rebate showed up online within a couple of weeks of my posting it, but they don't list an expected date for sending my rebate cheque. In my experience, it usually takes two to four months before one gets a rebate.

You might want to take a look at the recommendations I provided on this thread. If the prices there apply to you, then you could get an Abit IP35-E, Pentium E2160, and 2 GB of Corsair memory for about $170 after rebates (or $225 before). I didn't count tax in any of the sums.

When you save a few more pennies, you could probably buy a good replacement video card for $100 to slot into this system. PALiT is already selling one of their 9600 GT models for $110 after rebate on Newegg. I imagine the 8800 GT will be round that price in six months or so, if current trends continue.

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

awesome... good to hear my brother just bought an 8800gt at bestbuy for almost $300. then he saw it on newegg for almost $100 less. so he bought that one and returned it to best buy.

looks like a great card, i would love to have it. i guess ill own one in about 6 months

right now im leaning towards the gigabyte rather than the abit, just cause im low on cash. i had a $20 mail in rebate for something i bought a few years ago, i think it was a set of headphones. i never got the money back, so im a bit skeptical of the rebates

EDIT:

also, could anyone maybe point me in the direction of the OEM E2160 instead of retail?

 

[CheerUpEmoKid]

ok guys, i keep getting different opinions every forum i go, this one forum the people keep telling me to either get the E6750 or the E8400. since i dont really know too much about this kind of stuff, im just gonna copy and paste what someone said:

It does not overclock far better. For one, it has a lower multiplier. It uses exactly the same silicone, not a specialized wafer only for the x3210. Know how they know what to label as what? They test them. If they aren't up to speed, then they get marked lower, and sold for less. Unless it's like the Socket 939 opterons, in which case their yields were so good they marked chips that could be sold as a higher speed, as a lower speed.
Even in that case, all overclocks are not guaranteed. A Q6700 doesn't neccesarily overclock better than a Q6600, which might not overclock better than an x3210.
When you buy a retail cpu, you're not really paying for the cooler. You're paying for the added warranty. Intel has one hell of a warranty. The cooler also works fine if you're not overclocking. If you are, then a reasonable heatsink isn't too much more.

In SStoveld's case, an x3210 or q6600 is too much. He's only got <250 to spend on these. In which case, I suggest the abit ip35-e, and an E6750.

sstoveld is my name on the other forum btw.

as of right now, im am using an intel s478 3.0ghz cpu with a visiontek x1550 256mb. i have to use these parts right now cause, well, i messed up bad when testing my mobo that died and bent the pins on my amd cpu. it seems that so far its going ok, but i want to upgrade some stuff such as the cpu and mobo. i think i might be able to hold off a while to save up more money if you guys think the E8400 or E6750 are worth it.

here's what i found on newegg:

E6750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115029

E8400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115046

im guessing OEM would be better for me seeing as its a bit cheaper and i could put an aftermarket cooler in. im planning on overclocking it so that voids my warranty anyway doesnt it? but i cant seem to find OEM for the E2160, E2200, or E6750

 

[v8envy]

If you want to spend the whole $250, go get a Q6600 or E8400. Worth it is relative -- will it be 2x faster than an E2XXX overclocked? No, except possibly in the case of the Q6600. Will it play any current games qualitatively better than an E2XXX overclocked? Not really. Will it play future games for 1+ years longer than an E2xxx? Unlikely, except once again in the case of the Q6600. Is it better to put the $ saved in an envelope labeled 'PC Upgrade for Year 2009' and upgrade for the future IN the future? In my opinion, HELL YES.

As far as Intel speed binning the E2xxx series by yield vs. market demand -- well, do your own research and read the E2xxx/E4xxx overclocking thread on this very forum if you don't believe me. You'll notice one thing -- people hit 3.0-3.2 no matter which chip they have. The E2200s don't consistently hit 3.4 ghz, nor do the E2140s consistently clock only to 2.8. The E2160s seem to hit slightly higher OCs at slightly lower voltages than all the other chips, but I doubt they're magic. I bought the cheapest of the lot at the time (E2180) and I'm extremely happy with my purchasing decision.

If you really want the best overclocking dual core available right now in an OEM package -- check out tankguys.com for a $187 socket 775 Xeon 3110. It's the same chip as the E8400, more or less. It gives you plenty of e-peen, and leaves some cash over. Also, there are several e and retailers selling OEM Q6600s for $219 and lower. The E6750 is a slower, 65nm version of the E8400 for more money. Why on earth would someone recommend one of those in this day and age is beyond me.

But don't take my word for it -- read http://www.tomshardware.com/20.../12/pentium_dual_core/ and see for yourself.

 

[Winterpool]

Ultimately, no one else can tell you how much something is worth to you. Very few products increase in all metrics (including price) at a linear rate. Is paying 50 per cent more for 25 per cent more performance worthwhile? For 15 per cent more performance? Only you can decide that in the end.

When we get beyond computer kit (which, after all, has lots of quantifiable features), the question becomes even more problematic. Is visiting Paris 'worth' paying five times a holiday in New York? Is one night with an Emperors Club VIP escort worth ten more quotidian courtesans (or ten visits to one such professional)? Is a Vemeer ten times more beautiful than a Warhol? Is that even a meaningful question?

And of course 'worth' and 'value' are almost always functions of how much money you yourself have available. I don't literally think a bottle of Musigny from the Comte Georges de Vogüé tastes 100x better than a bottle of Oregon pinot noir, but if I made hedge-fund money, I for one would be willing to pay 100x for a bottle of Le Musigny. I guess it's about 'qualitative' v 'quantitative' differences, not to mention somewhat more questionable factors like prestige (or snobbism).

You'd think with computer kit, it would be all about quantities: we've got hertz and volts and fps after all. But some punters will pay an extra $50 for a pretty lady on their video card, even though the card will be inside a dark metal case, facing down. Some geeks like seeing a nice round number (like 3.0 GHz) on a cpu report. Some get a warm feeling inside knowing they've four cores or a 50 per cent overclock or 'Vanderpool' tech that they'll likely never use. And some of us like to show off.

I can only really speak about myself: I paid $205 for a Xeon E3110 (aka the Core 2 Duo E8400) even though I'd probably be fine with an overclocked $80 cpu of the sort we've discussed above. It's been almost five years since I built myself a new primary workstation (an Athlon XP 2500+), and I wanted my new computer to run on something relatively smart and leading-edge. I do like the nice round 3 GHz figure as well. And, surprise, I'm shy about overclocking.

Similarly, though I've not seriously played a computer game in several years, I paid almost $200 for an ASUS EN9600GT. Partly I liked the idea of a 'respectable' video card; partly I wanted to give myself the chance of playing a modern game, but to be honest probably 75 per cent of my decision was based on the card's artwork. I even bought it from a retailer I'd never heard of (xpcgear.com) because it seemed neither Newegg nor ZipZoomFly were still carrying the versions adorned with the 'sakura girl' artwork.

Now that you know all this about me, do you really want to trust my input?

 

[Winterpool]

Well, in case you do retain some confidence in my judgement, let me argue that you should either spend < $100 or > $200 on a cpu. Spending, say, $170 on an E6550 or $190 on an E6750 seems an awful waste. As we've discussed, an overclocked Pentium E will beat those chips for half the price. On the other hand, with a $200ish Wolfdale, you get 45nm Penryn efficiency (and prestige, heh) and performance superior to the Conroe chips at stock speeds. Plus you've the possibility of overclocking to 4+ GHz in the future, should you choose. (And with a $200+ Q6600, Q9300, etc, you get... four cores, with all that entails.)

When you originally posted here, you cited budget limits of $100 for the motherboard and 'MAYBE up to about $115' for the processor, with $150 looking like your absolute ceiling. This (not to mention your student status) suggests to me that you can't really throw money around. If saving $25 here or there matters significantly, then you probably shouldn't be spending more than $100 on a cpu unless you really need the processing power. If you're watching HD video, an overclocked Pentium E should do. If you're playing modern games, then you need a new video card anyhow. So financial considerations seem to push for the Pentium E2000s. If you want to go for broke, then nothing makes the extra expenditure feel worthwhile (I mean that warm feeling inside) until the $200ish level (quadcore, Wolfdale, etc).

Right, there is one big qualitative difference between the Pentium E and the true Conroe and Wolfdale Core 2 Duos: Intel's VT or 'Vanderpool' virtualisation technology. If you want to investigate x86 virtualisation in a serious fashion, then you'll definitely want a VT-capable cpu. On the other hand, even the sub-$100 Athlon X2 chips support virtualisation on the AMD side.