looking for suggestions on a possible salary negotiation...

[edro]

Is your current family close enough to help with the kid(s)?
Are both sides in MD?

We recently moved closer to family and it helps a TON.
Grandma is 15min away and can watch our son at a moment's notice.
It's tough when your only choice is daycare or a baby sitter and both parents work.
When he is sick, it's nice to send him to grandmas house or have her stay here with him. Daycares won't let them stay if they are sick, same for some babysitters.

We had friends who lived on west coast and recently moved back because they had a kid.

A few years ago, my wife got a huge job offer in Wisc. I interviewed and found a job there too. We were all set to go, then decided the winters and being away from family weren't worth it.
I am sooo glad we didn't go.

It's not like SD is a quick trip to MD either. You will likely only visit once a year.
Think about all that before you pickup and move away from your family.

 

[Aharami]

^ oh yea. IIRC you just had a kid. consider extra childcare costs also

 

[purbeast0]

Is your current family close enough to help with the kid(s)?
Are both sides in MD?

We recently moved closer to family and it helps a TON.
Grandma is 15min away and can watch our son at a moment's notice.
It's tough when your only choice is daycare or a baby sitter and both parents work.
When he is sick, it's nice to send him to grandmas house or have her stay here with him. Daycares won't let them stay if they are sick, same for some babysitters.

We had friends who lived on west coast and recently moved back because they had a kid.

A few years ago, my wife got a huge job offer in Wisc. I interviewed and found a job there too. We were all set to go, then decided the winters and being away from family weren't worth it.
I am sooo glad we didn't go.

It's not like SD is a quick trip to MD either. You will likely only visit once a year.
Think about all that before you pickup and move away from your family.

yeah trust me, all of this is why we are still in the area. my wife isn't working right now so she is watching the kid (he is 4 months old). my mom lives 15 minutes away and when we went to see mad max, we just dropped our son off at her house because she was on the way to the theater. it's really convenient. her family is all in VA, but its like 30 minutes away so not far either. i also know for a fact that my mom does NOT want me to move, but i've told her there is a chance we could move out west at some point.

my wife is going back to work in october though. then her mom is going to come to our house to watch our son during the week. her mom doesn't work now and we will be paying her, but the convenience of her mom coming over to watch the kid and us not having to drop him off anywhere is pretty damn awesome.

but yeah, with a kid, that is another reason i said we were considering it in like 2-3 years or possibly even more because we want to have a 2nd child at some point before our kid gets too old.

we've also contemplated moving out there for a couple years as Aharami suggested, then coming back. but who knows if that will actually happen.

but damn, i'll tell you, when i was out there in november, waking up every day to sunny skies and 70 degree weather puts you in a damn good mood. i even asked my friend who's been there for 6+ years (we stayed with them the whole time) if he ever gets sick of it or got used to it out there compared to back in the DMV area, and he said hell no and that it still feels like a "vacation beach house" where he lives.

he is like 15 minutes in land from del mar beach, but his garage has sand and beach toys all in it from his kid. fishing rods all over the place. and the layouts of the houses there are just so different and i like it.

but until an offer becomes a reality, these aren't things I REALLY have to consider yet.

 

[purbeast0]

also, in regards to moving in general ... i realize i'm not getting any younger, and i kind of life by the motto that i don't want to ever get older and look back then regret something, and i kind of feel like this could be one of those things that if i don't move out there (at some point, doesn't have to be for this job) that i will look back and wonder "what if i moved out there" at some point. i don't want to be that guy.

 

[gorcorps]

that's not really the same thing at all.

i haven't got any offer from them. they need my salary requirements for them to decide if they will proceed with an offer, and i'm just wondering exactly how much over the initial $40k more than i currently make that i told them already, because that number was told with them knowing i hadn't seen benefits yet. and i don't want to flat out give them my bottom number, which right now is $60k more than i currently make (the initial $40k i asked + the $20k difference in benefits).

but you are right, it is pretty simple in the grand scheme of things, and i probably am overthinking it lol.

It is the same thing, which is why you're overthinking this. Your situation isn't different where it matters, and none of the things you mentioned changes the central issue... All it boils down to is how much do you need to make to say "yes I'll take the job" without question.

That's it. Give them that number.

 

[purbeast0]

It is the same thing, which is why you're overthinking this. Your situation isn't different where it matters, and none of the things you mentioned changes the central issue... All it boils down to is how much do you need to make to say "yes I'll take the job" without question.

That's it. Give them that number.

yeah sorry gonna have to disagree. when it comes to negotiations you don't just flat out start with a number and say take it or leave it.

just like i wouldn't want to work for a company that would do the same thing to me. i want to know a company has some wiggle room and is workable otherwise it's a company i wouldn't want to work for anyways and i would just stop wasting my time.

 

[Aharami]

honestly, with your new updates regarding your childcare plans, I would not move if I were you, unless you MiL is going to be moving with you. I think having a child in daycare and be around other kids is crucial to their development, but even the best daycare won't compare to the convenience of having grandma watch your child in your home. At the very least, your mornings are a whole lot more relaxed when you arent running around getting your child, her food, clothing, and all her other stuff ready for her day in daycare.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

yeah sorry gonna have to disagree. when it comes to negotiations you don't just flat out start with a number and say take it or leave it.

just like i wouldn't want to work for a company that would do the same thing to me. i want to know a company has some wiggle room and is workable otherwise it's a company i wouldn't want to work for anyways and i would just stop wasting my time.

I interviewed with a company a couple of years ago and got a job offer. I interviewed on a Monday afternoon and when they offered it to me that evening, they told me I had to give them an answer by NOON the next day. I asked for more time and they literally told me to "take it or leave it." I told them to get lost.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

honestly, with your new updates regarding your childcare plans, I would not move if I were you, unless you MiL is going to be moving with you. I think having a child in daycare and be around other kids is crucial to their development, but even the best daycare won't compare to the convenience of having grandma watch your child in your home. At the very least, your mornings are a whole lot more relaxed when you arent running around getting your child, her food, clothing, and all her other stuff ready for her day in daycare.

Definitely agree. I would never move away from close family if I had a kid unless there were extraordinary circumstances.

 

[purbeast0]

honestly, with your new updates regarding your childcare plans, I would not move if I were you, unless you MiL is going to be moving with you. I think having a child in daycare and be around other kids is crucial to their development, but even the best daycare won't compare to the convenience of having grandma watch your child in your home. At the very least, your mornings are a whole lot more relaxed when you arent running around getting your child, her food, clothing, and all her other stuff ready for her day in daycare.

not a chance in hell the MIL would be moving with us lol. but yeah, these are all heavy decisions that i don't have to think about just yet. but now you can start to see why i'm reaching for the stars lol.

realistically if they met what i'm asking, my wife wouldn't have to work out there. i would be pulling in about as much as we were making when she was working here combined, and we had a lot of extra cash which we would go on vacations with and stuff. but over there it could go towards the higher cost of living and also be some fun money.

hey hawaii is only a 5 hour flight from there!

 

[Zeze]

I can just share my experiences, take what you can from it:

First of all, I always ask for a raise, no matter how good the initial offer was. Reason? Because if they can do it, then more $$$ for me. I don't need a valid reason other than that.

Now externally, of course, I tell them something along the lines of:

1) I have done internal calculations and xxx will give me the financial comfort level to move foward.
2) I'm looking for a bit of a bump for my next job. xxx is in alignment with what I'm looking for.

That's it. No self-respecting company probes further. They understand employees have individual expectations.

Again, I always ask- no matter how good the first offer is. It costs nothing to ask as long as you're tactful- they won't take away the offer because of asking (unless you're an a-hole in this delivery). This worked well in my life- interfacing with both recruiters and direct hiring managers.

Job X many years ago was $80k. I asked for $5k more politely. The hiring manager came back and said yes,

Job Y few years ago, I asked for $5/hr more (contract gig)- I nicely whined about how I have to cover my own health insurance, etc. (although their initial rate was great $$$) What do you know, they came back and said "We can't do $5, but can we do $2 afterall?" I told him, I'll sign it. This contract ended up running 18 months, and that $2/hr got me extra $3900. Just by talking 15 mins extra with the recruiter one time.

Job Z, I learned that the offer was $5k below their max range. I asked for max, as I had a good feeling my hiring manager really liked me. They gave me that $5k.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't know where you are currently living OP (rather important) - but if you are moving to California from out of state (likely the case) - unless you live in an expensive area already, $40k and a hit to benefits would be like taking a punch to the stomach with the difference in costs.

I would expect them to have had better benefits in CA.

 

[purbeast0]

I don't know where you are currently living OP (rather important) - but if you are moving to California from out of state (likely the case) - unless you live in an expensive area already, $40k and a hit to benefits would be like taking a punch to the stomach with the difference in costs.

I would expect them to have had better benefits in CA.

i'm in MD as i've mentioned multiple times in this thread already

and ZeZe, if you mean you always ask for a raise from your CURRENT position, then yeah that is a no brainer.

 

[Zeze]

i'm in MD as i've mentioned multiple times in this thread already

and ZeZe, if you mean you always ask for a raise from your CURRENT position, then yeah that is a no brainer.

No, in NEW jobs during hiring process. Did you not read- the entire post circles around interview process.

And the point of my post is to show that you don't need to overthink this. Think of the figure you're comfortable relocating to SD with (do your homework). Establish 3 figures: Absolute minimum, comfortable, & ideal.

And operate on that basis. If companies can't meet your absolute minimum, they just can't. Move onto other interviews.

(and always ask for more if their initial offer was more than your ideal figure, that's my second point).

 

[purbeast0]

No, in NEW jobs during hiring process. Did you not read- the entire post circles around interview process.

i mean you ask the new jobs for a raise over (more money than you currently amke) what your current company is paying you. not that you ask your company for a raise.

 

[Zeze]

Okay. What are you asking of us in your OP?

You want $70k more, ask it. They'll say yes or no with some feedback. If they already indicated $40k more is already tough to meet, then it'll be hard for them.

At any rate, if they can't meet it, you move on. This company isn't for you. And you don't want to be in SD with increased living costs and suffering your entire family.

Best of luck!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

i'm in MD as i've mentioned multiple times in this thread already

and ZeZe, if you mean you always ask for a raise from your CURRENT position, then yeah that is a no brainer.

Soooo - You are currently in MD.
Your wife currently doesn't work.
You currently have a young kid to pay for / possible child care costs.
Home equity costs are through the roof in CA.
Taxes are sky high there.

....You sure you make enough for all those changes OP? Not bashing, just legitimately pointing out all those changes? I'm in Texas, enjoying the 0% state tax and a 3 bedroom 2-story for $140k.

Summer may suck, but it's not so bad. Plus I'm in a building blocks stage of life.

 

[purbeast0]

Soooo - You are currently in MD.
Your wife currently doesn't work.
You currently have a young kid to pay for / possible child care costs.
Home equity costs are through the roof in CA.
Taxes are sky high there.

....You sure you make enough for all those changes OP? Not bashing, just legitimately pointing out all those changes? I'm in Texas, enjoying the 0% state tax and a 3 bedroom 2-story for $140k.

Summer may suck, but it's not so bad. Plus I'm in a building blocks stage of life.

won't have to pay for child care costs if the wife doesn't work. the plan is for her to go back to work in october though which will help out a lot so we don't have to feel like we can't do as much. our 5br house was $419k and comparables in CA in the area we were looking at were around $600k.

so if i were to make $70k more, or even $60k more, i don't think i would have a problem being able to pay that difference, if we did purchase a home. or we could even rent for a while, which our friends are doing right now in cali (and appears to be fairly normal due to the prices to buy) and then buy down the road.

oh and another thing i didn't mention, the company that i'm lookign at allows you to work more than 40 hours a week and you get paid normal rate for them. so in theory if i needed more money, i could work more hours. although, if i was living in cali, i would not want to work anymore than 40 hours so i could enjoy doing things outside instead.

 

[purbeast0]

so quick update...

after emailing them back asking for the $70k more than i currently make, i didn't hear anything for 2 weeks, so i wrote another email asking for some updates. after another week of nothing, i contacted the local recruiter for the company to see if she could find what was going on. within 6 hours i had a reply from the original recruiter.

he replied saying that they would love to make me an offer, but at the asking price, i would be by far the highest paid engineer in the company. he even said at my original salary (before knowing benefits) that is $40k more than i make now, i would be the highest paid engineer, but he was wondering if i had any wiggle room because they would love to make me an offer.

he then went on to flat out tell me if i looked into smaller companies with less overhead, i could probably get what i was asking for.

so this entire experience with this recruiter, i've had a lot of red flags and things that have put me off of this company. him flat out telling me i would be the highest paid engineer is one of them. why the hell would i care, and what is he trying to accomplish by telling me that?

additionally, flat out telling me that i could get paid more elsewhere? yeah that doesn't make much sense at all.

oh and i also asked if they had any relocation assistance, and he completely didn't answer me or mention anything about that in the reply.

but i replied back telling him that yes i have some wiggle room, but at the salary he was mentioning, i don't think that is enough to make me pick up and move across the country at the current time, but that there was wiggle room.

this was tuesday, and i have yet to hear back from him.

the fact that everything is taking so damn long to hear back from this guy is really off putting as well. it just completely rubs me the wrong way and is unprofessional IMO. so at this point i'm not really expecting it to go anywhere, but i'm still waiting to see what he says back.

but that day, after i kind of turned down an unnoficial offer that is $40k more than i make now, i couldn't stop thinking about it and was like damn, i actually kind of turned down a job making a lot more money. i did the math and after paying all the premiums and stuff, i would have around $1500 more a month takehome, which is $18k/yr extra takehome. so yeah, that is a lot more. but cost of living obviously is much more out west ,and i'm just not sure if that much more is enough for me to make the jump right now.

 

[edro]

$40k more in Cali economy seems tough to do on a single income.

He is telling you that you would be the highest paid engineer, meaning there may be little room for upward mobility.

I think you could make it work, but the real question is whether or not you want to live in Cali, away from family.
What about California do you like? How long have you visited Cali for?
Maybe you should take your next vacation there to scope it out in person for longer.

Money is not the Reason to move. It simply Allows the move.

 

[purbeast0]

$40k more in Cali economy seems tough to do on a single income.

He is telling you that you would be the highest paid engineer, meaning there may be little room for upward mobility.

I think you could make it work, but the real question is whether or not you want to live in Cali.

Money is not the Reason to move. It simply Allows the move.

oh i know 100% i could make it work, but right now it doesn't make me feel like i would be a moron not to take it. but if they matched the "reach for the stars" salary i asked for, then i would be a moron not to take it.

i disagree with the reason you gave for him telling me that though. as an engineer, i arleady know that being a senior software engineer is as high as i can get. well i'm already technically higher than that, since my company promoted me to senior software architect, although my duties are still that of an engineer, and i think they just did that so they could pay me more because in turn they could bill me at a higher rate to the customer.

but the next step as far as upward mobility would be to be a lead engineer or a tech lead, and that definitely would come with a pay bump, since it would be a new category.

i almost got the vibe that he was telling me that to make it feel like they would be doing me some amazing favor if they made me an offer, and also like if they did do that, they would put me on a different level than others as far as expectations go, like higher than their normal senior engineers.

but i'm not one to feel like a company is doing me a favor by hiring me, i'm the opposite. i'm doing the company a favor by working for them and them being able to get my talents. that's my mentality now and how i have gotten where i am at career wise.

 

[Compddd]

I live in San Diego and it's awesome. You should move here.

 

[SSSnail]

At any point during the negotiation, did you exert your stance of dominance?

 

[purbeast0]

At any point during the negotiation, did you exert your stance of dominance?

yes

 

[Brovane]

yes

Good for you keeping this attitude. To many people don't have confidence in their skills and assume a company is doing them a favor by employing them. :thumbsup: