Looking for some advice on upgrading from scratch

GiantBehemoth

Junior Member
Jun 15, 2005
11
0
0
I've been wanting to upgrade for about a year now, but never had the funds or got around to it. What finally pushed me was finding out that game developers are pushing out DX9 games.

With the release of Battlefield 2 demo, I was very shocked to find that my trusty MSI GeForce ti4200 (128) would not run it. Now I know for a fact that the card would be able to run it on at least low settings at decent frames, but hey...it's getting old now, right? I finally accepted that the pixel shader 1.3 wasn't gonna be enough for 2005. Hell, I need a big upgrade.

One of the biggest changes I am making is converting to AMD. I've always been an Intel fanboy and been loyal to Intel, but obviously I was so blinded by my loyalty that I was unaware the AMD was much better suited for what I want to do. I couldn't give a crap amount multitasking as I just want to run games.

I don't think it matters what my current rig is. It's Intel though and 2002 material, 'cept for the upped mobo and processor.

So by budget is $1,150 (USD) and leaving room for future upgrades as I can afford more.

I've been doing some research over the weeks and A64 socket 939 is what I want.

Basically I am asking for help in putting together something that will be specialized for gaming mostly and the odd video recording (not often though)

Gaming is Number 1 though.

Things that I already have and that I will keep is my CRT 19" monitor and..uhh..keyboard/mouse + HDD. They will be upgraded eventually but aren't a priority for me at the moment.

Another thing I have learned is that it's a bad idea to use onboard mobo audio on Intel's, not sure if this applies to AMD, 'cause it zaps away some performance..is this correct? If so then I'll be needing an audio card. Nothing too fancy, just an audigy2 zs or whatever.

I will not be overclocking it madly but will probably be just a little. I am not used to AMD overclocking and I will probably mess up and block my processor by pulling stunts I've done on my Intel.

So things I need help with are.

- Ram
- Graphics Card
- CPU
- Sound Card
- Mobo
- Case

I think that's about it. This is going to be my 3rd custom built PC, 1st AMD one so I will be extra careful on how I put it together. I've come up with a rough idea of what I could probably get, which I'll list here.

- A64 3500 Venice S939
- Corsair Value Select 2x512 DDR400
- GB GA-K8NXP-9 NF4 Ultra
- Case I am not sure about. Lian Li maybe? But which...nothing too expensive.

Finally is the graphics card, which I am REALLY stumped on. So it seems (After reading alot of stuff here) that the Nvidia Geforce 6600GT is gonna be pretty much a low end card before 2006...? Okkk, all the stuff I found on the 6600GT is 128..I've heard something about a XFX Geforce 6600GT 256 card, which I guess would perform at greater resolution above 1024x768 and with more AF/AA, right? So I've ruled out the 6600GT 128 card and now am stuck between the cheaper, 6600gt or going up to a 6800gt 256 card. There's quite a big jump in prices between the two and the 6800 ultra being more expensive.So it looks like the most expensive item out of my new system will be the damn graphics card. It was pretty much expected though, so no complaints there. I've looked at all the reviews and alot are just so BIASED towards a certain GPU, so I'll rther get the advice from other people than a bunch of biased review sites. I don't want to end up getting a grapics card that will be obsolete in another year. I'm not made of money and this is a long awaited savings for me.

It may be also important to note is I buy all this stuff from Denmark..Denmark has what is called Value Added Tax, which is basically added to everything purchased at 25%.

So every 100 dollars I spent costs me 125 dollars. It's a very horrible deal I know. I can't order from newegg either so I can't exactly get the stuff *cheap* like you guys do in US. So try to help me out by trying to work something out with me under my actual budget, so you can leave room for the damn tax.

I hope I got all the info in here that is needed. Thanks alot!


 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Hi GiantBehemoth and Welcome to the Forums!

CPU, mobo & ram look OK to.

As for gfx cards, 6800GT (256MB) and X800XL (256) are good choices. Or, wait a little to see what the new cards look like. I wouldn't go down to the 6600GT levels, and I don't think they are fast enough to use 256MB vram anyway.

Unless you have a good PSU already, might wanna look at a Fortron or Enermax etc.

Fern
 

GiantBehemoth

Junior Member
Jun 15, 2005
11
0
0
THanks guys. My history has been with Nvidia and I have never tried ATI. I'm a little concerned as I have heard ATI cards (alot of recent ones) have been plagued with driver problems. Most the games I will be playing have the NVidia Logo on them so I think it would be safe to assume Nivid aplays better on those games? Anyway, perhaps it's time to stop the Nvidia loyalty like I had done with Intel. I'll take a look at the x800xl and try to brush aside my "But it ain't nvidia" stuff. Thanks again!

Oh and Fern thanks I forgot about the PSU..

Oh PS..Which brand is best for the ATI x800xl?
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
yep, stop the brand loyalty, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. ATI drivers are just fine, i have never had a problem with them. that problem is about as ancient as the AMD heat problem years ago.
 

GiantBehemoth

Junior Member
Jun 15, 2005
11
0
0
It took me many years to figure out that my poor Intel was just sucky for games. Oh yeah it was all good for the first few months, but I tried to ignore the fact that when Athlon 64 started pumping out, my Intel was...sucky...for what I wanted to do.

Hopefully I am done with the brand loyalty. I think switching from Intel to AMD was the first step and in this thread I found out that I still was loyal on the graphics department.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: GiantBehemoth
THanks guys. My history has been with Nvidia and I have never tried ATI. I'm a little concerned as I have heard ATI cards (alot of recent ones) have been plagued with driver problems. Most the games I will be playing have the NVidia Logo on them so I think it would be safe to assume Nivid aplays better on those games? Anyway, perhaps it's time to stop the Nvidia loyalty like I had done with Intel. I'll take a look at the x800xl and try to brush aside my "But it ain't nvidia" stuff. Thanks again!

Oh and Fern thanks I forgot about the PSU..

Yeah, agree with Nick -the driver thingy about ATI is old news. Many nowadays claim ATI's driver support is better than nVidia's. I've been going back & forth between the two (Ti4200->9800pro->6800GT), never had a problem with either.

As far as which games play better on what, ATI has been generally considered better with DirectX games, while nVidia is better with OpenGL.

I think it's mostly a toss-up between the X800XL and 6800GT anyway.
 

lytalbayre

Senior member
Apr 28, 2005
842
2
81
I second the 68oo GT. Or the plain 6800 with 12 pipes is a little cheaper but so much better than you're ti4200.

I know you don't want to hear it, but harddrives have been advancing over the last couple of years and can greatly impact gameplay and loading times... I would look into a cheap SATA II drive.

Get a cheaper case.

DO NOT FORGET TO BUY A NEW QUALITY ATX 2.0 POWER SUPPLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're motherboard is fine. If you aren't going to overclock, I would suggest looking into some lower end brand memory modules with better timings that the cvs.

Good luck.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: GiantBehemoth
THanks guys. My history has been with Nvidia and I have never tried ATI. I'm a little concerned as I have heard ATI cards (alot of recent ones) have been plagued with driver problems. Most the games I will be playing have the NVidia Logo on them so I think it would be safe to assume Nivid aplays better on those games? Anyway, perhaps it's time to stop the Nvidia loyalty like I had done with Intel. I'll take a look at the x800xl and try to brush aside my "But it ain't nvidia" stuff. Thanks again!

Oh and Fern thanks I forgot about the PSU..


I think it's mostly a toss-up between the X800XL and 6800GT anyway.


its a toss up performance wise, but not price wise. the X800XL wins easily there.
 

GiantBehemoth

Junior Member
Jun 15, 2005
11
0
0
I don't think I will be overclocking much, maybe just a tiny bit. So what ram would you recommend for non-overclocking? As for harddrive, I have that on my lower priority list. I can buy that shortly after I have the whole thing put together.

Oh, which sites do you recommend that are not biased when giving reviews? I do actually have a stick of Corsair XMS DDR400 512 but I'd need to get another of the exact type of dual channel.

Ofcourse, XMS is good for overclocking right? So it may be a bit of a bad thing to have something that isn't really getting used to its potential.

Thanks for the PSU tip too. You're all really helping me here!

Update:

I have a new concern. x800xl is not SM3 compatible, right? It's 2.0..
As long as it can last me about a year without being forced to upgrade, I'll be happy. I don't think any games actually have a requirement for SM3 right now, only support for it.

Battlefield 2 suprised me with their non GF4 support though...Maybe I'm just worrying too much!
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: GiantBehemoth
I don't think I will be overclocking much, maybe just a tiny bit. So what ram would you recommend for non-overclocking? Check out some past posts. I think Zebo has shown that expensive ram doesn't really bring any performance increase. IIRC, the 64bit platform runs just great with a divider and ram at 166/333mhz. Also, I've read that the Cas timing element is not the important one for 64bit.

As for harddrive, I have that on my lower priority list. I can buy that shortly after I have the whole thing put together.

Oh, which sites do you recommend that are not biased when giving reviews? I do actually have a stick of Corsair XMS DDR400 512 but I'd need to get another of the exact type of dual channel.

Ofcourse, XMS is good for overclocking right? So it may be a bit of a bad thing to have something that isn't really getting used to its potential.

Thanks for the PSU tip too. You're all really helping me here!

Update:

I have a new concern. x800xl is not SM3 compatible, right? It's 2.0.. I wouldn't woory about that at all. Most of us think by the time games extensivley use it our current gfx cards won't cut it anyway. Like Nick points out, the choice between the 6800GT and X800XL should be made on price
As long as it can last me about a year without being forced to upgrade, I'll be happy. I don't think any games actually have a requirement for SM3 right now, only support for it.

Battlefield 2 suprised me with their non GF4 support though...Maybe I'm just worrying too much!

 

GiantBehemoth

Junior Member
Jun 15, 2005
11
0
0
Nice. I'm decided to go with the x800xl.

Done a bit of research and even the Geforce 6800GT seems to perform less when AF and FSAA are added in there. Everywhere I have been the x800xl seemed to crush the 6600GT. As I will be using AF and FSAA the wise choice definately seems to go with the x800xl, and the price is not going to rip my budget apart. Price wise the x800xl wins me over.

I have another question.

What one performs better? the 6800 Ultra or the x850xt PE? they look around the same price. Out of my price range but I was just curious.
 

Maluno

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
697
0
0
Lol, I just read the title, and I must comment that "upgrading from scratch is an oxymoron." The x850xt PE will definately out-perform any single nVidea card out right now.
 

leegroves86

Senior member
Apr 21, 2005
400
0
0
have you decided what cpu to go with? I'd go with a 3000+ venice and overclock it. Mine is o'c to 2.2 GHZ steady as a rock with STOCK cooling. It would save you some money....
 

GiantBehemoth

Junior Member
Jun 15, 2005
11
0
0
If I went for a cheaper CPU, such as the 3000 then I could probably fit in an x850xt PE. Which is more important?

A64 3500 venice + x800xL
A64 3000 venice + x850xT PE

capital L and T because at a distance could be accidently mistake.



Who wins on the performance for gaming?
 

Maluno

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
697
0
0
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Maluno
The x850xt PE will definately out-perform any single nVidea card out right now.

wtf does that have to do with anything? :confused:

Originally posted by: GiantBehemoth
I have another question.

What one performs better? the 6800 Ultra or the x850xt PE? they look around the same price. Out of my price range but I was just curious.

 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Maluno
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Maluno
The x850xt PE will definately out-perform any single nVidea card out right now.

wtf does that have to do with anything? :confused:

Originally posted by: GiantBehemoth
I have another question.

What one performs better? the 6800 Ultra or the x850xt PE? they look around the same price. Out of my price range but I was just curious.

ahhh. owned. :eek: