Looking for power protection for my devices

[Krazy4Real]

I'm looking at getting some power protection for my components. We had a little power blip and my dlp got shut off which isn't good for the bulb. I'm looking at getting this unit.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...4158&CatId=234

Is there something else I should be getting? I would ideally like to stick to around this price point unless there is something much better at a slightly higher cost.

Here is what I am looking to protect:
60" Mitsubishi DLP - 265 watts
Sony Playstation 3 - 200 watts
Samsung Soundbar - 75 watts
Motorola HD DVR - 45 watts

Thanks!

 

[kalrith]

Well, unless you have dirty power (like me), then you wouldn't need all your equipment on a UPS, just the DLP and DVR. Also, UPSs typically don't have much surge protection, which is why I plugged my UPS into a surge protector, so that might be something to consider. With the UPS you mentioned and all your equipment, you'll probably get about 8 minutes of run-time. If that's sufficient for your DLP to power down, then it's probably a decent choice.

Staples has that UPS on sale for $150 + free shipping until March 6. You might be able to buy a coupon off ebay to get the price down even more.

Edit: The following thread has some good info in it: Surge Protection

 

[Krazy4Real]

I think what I'll do is get that UPS from Staples, and then buy this surge protector as well.

http://www.compusa.com/applications/...&srkey=HT10DBS

I would plug the surge protector into the outlet and then the UPS into the surge protector.

8 minutes of runtime would be just fine. My tv only needs about 3 to fully power off.

Thanks!

Oh, and thanks for the link to staples. I found and used a coupon, and I got it for $138 shipped. It looks like a pretty decent unit and that's an excellent price for a Line-Interactive UPS with that kind of capacity. I'll head out to pick up that surge protector later this week and I should be all set for properly protecting my equipment.

 

[Apex]

You don't need a surge protector and a UPS. The UPS functions as both, and frankly, you won't really know which will do what with both of them hooked together.

 

[Krazy4Real]

You don't need a surge protector and a UPS. The UPS functions as both, and frankly, you won't really know which will do what with both of them hooked together.

I keep reading things like this though at different sites.

An ordinary UPS WILL give you a high level of protection, but you should still use a surge protector. A UPS will stop most surges from reaching your computer, but it will probably suffer severe damage itself. It's a good idea to use a basic surge protector, if just to save your UPS.

If I do get a surge, I'd rather replace a surge protector than get another UPS right? It might be overkill, but I already lost a computer power supply to the power I have here. I put that system on a UPS now and have had no problems since. I'm just paranoid about my tv and ps3 more than my computer I guess.

 

[Modelworks]

You don't need a surge protector and a UPS. The UPS functions as both, and frankly, you won't really know which will do what with both of them hooked together.

The difference is the speed that each controls the surge. UPS often are targeted at voltage drops with surge secondary. Most UPS use the standard MOV for surge protection and do not monitor if it has failed unless you get into the more costly models. Meaning you think it has MOV protection equal to a $5 surge suppressor but do not know that part is no longer working. The $5 suppressor has an indicator light you can see. Once the MOV has failed a $5 surge suppressor will clamp the surge in about 1-2ns where a UPS usually is around 10-15ns.

Adding a surge protector will not harm a UPS in any way. It is merely adding an additional MOV between the wall and the UPS.

 

[kalrith]

I keep reading things like this though at different sites.

If I do get a surge, I'd rather replace a surge protector than get another UPS right? It might be overkill, but I already lost a computer power supply to the power I have here. I put that system on a UPS now and have had no problems since. I'm just paranoid about my tv and ps3 more than my computer I guess.

If you want the absolute best setup, then you'll connect your equipment to a beefy UPS and connect the UPS to a brickwall. That will cover you from dirty power, brownouts, and surges, and allow you to power down your equipment normally in case of a power outage. However, that setup would be quite expensive.

I personally took a $10 surge protector and plugged an APC smart UPS that I salvaged from work (and replaced the battery) into it. The only thing connected to it is my HTPC and my cordless phone (so I can use it during a power outage).

For everything else I bought an APC H15. I wouldn't have paid normal price for it, but I got it for $80-85, and I think it's great at that price. The H15 acts as a surge protector and AVR, so I plug it directly into the wall. For comparison my UPS is rated for 480 joules of protection and the H15 for 5270. I don't have a rptv, so cooling down is a non-issue. My PS3 is the only other sensitive device (since it has a hard drive), but I don't think losing power instantly would damage it.

The main things I want to protect against are brown-outs and my dirty power. If there's a brown-out, the AVR will bump the voltage if it's only a little low and then completely turn off if it gets really low. The UPS will do the same, except that it will go to battery when the voltage gets really low.

As far as dirty power goes, every time I turn on the dryer or the AC, the lights in my house dim. Obviously they dip down in power for a second, and I don't want my electronics to suffer from that. I can hear the UPS and AVR kick into boost mode whenever this happens, so I know they're doing their job.

For my second "HT" setup I have my gaming computer and two monitors (one of which is a 32" TV) connected to the UPS. The printer, speakers, and other accessories are just plugged into a $10 surge protector. Those other devices aren't worth $85 for another AVR (assuming I could get one at that price), so I just don't worry about it. I'd hate to lose the other equipment though, which is my reasoning for the UPS. Hopefully the UPS is still enough once I get my 4890, but I have my doubts about that.

 

[Modelworks]

It looks like a pretty decent unit and that's an excellent price for a Line-Interactive UPS with that kind of capacity. I'll head out to pick up that surge protector later this week and I should be all set for properly protecting my equipment.

Capacity is a tricky thing with UPS marketing , they like to show off the big numbers like 1500 which is the VA but that is only 900 watts. Then you have to figure in the battery size , which in this unit is :
Battery Size 12V/8.5AH = 102 watts .

That means that for one hour the most this battery can output is 102 watts per minute for a total of 60 minutes or 6,120 watts. I like to us a 80% figure for batteries to account for voltage drop and inverter loss so about 4900 watts total.

Your load is 585 watts so to get minutes run time 4900 watts power reserve / 585 = about 8 minutes run time off battery. The last thing to consider is if the power is just going off one time and back on or if it does it several times during a two hour period. If the power goes on and off a lot during that time you need to add up all those downtime minutes as it can take a UPS 8-16 hours to recover from an outage.

 

[Krazy4Real]

If you want the absolute best setup, then you'll connect your equipment to a beefy UPS and connect the UPS to a brickwall. That will cover you from dirty power, brownouts, and surges, and allow you to power down your equipment normally in case of a power outage. However, that setup would be quite expensive.

I personally took a $10 surge protector and plugged an APC smart UPS that I salvaged from work (and replaced the battery) into it. The only thing connected to it is my HTPC and my cordless phone (so I can use it during a power outage).

For everything else I bought an APC H15. I wouldn't have paid normal price for it, but I got it for $80-85, and I think it's great at that price. The H15 acts as a surge protector and AVR, so I plug it directly into the wall. For comparison my UPS is rated for 480 joules of protection and the H15 for 5270. I don't have a rptv, so cooling down is a non-issue. My PS3 is the only other sensitive device (since it has a hard drive), but I don't think losing power instantly would damage it.

The main things I want to protect against are brown-outs and my dirty power. If there's a brown-out, the AVR will bump the voltage if it's only a little low and then completely turn off if it gets really low. The UPS will do the same, except that it will go to battery when the voltage gets really low.

As far as dirty power goes, every time I turn on the dryer or the AC, the lights in my house dim. Obviously they dip down in power for a second, and I don't want my electronics to suffer from that. I can hear the UPS and AVR kick into boost mode whenever this happens, so I know they're doing their job.

For my second "HT" setup I have my gaming computer and two monitors (one of which is a 32" TV) connected to the UPS. The printer, speakers, and other accessories are just plugged into a $10 surge protector. Those other devices aren't worth $85 for another AVR (assuming I could get one at that price), so I just don't worry about it. I'd hate to lose the other equipment though, which is my reasoning for the UPS. Hopefully the UPS is still enough once I get my 4890, but I have my doubts about that.

I'm not looking for the absolute best setup. I'm just looking for a setup that will get the job done pretty decently and protect my equipment pretty well for around a $200 budget. I suffer from the same things as you, when my AC kicks in the lights dim. Same thing with my dryer, and sometimes with my gaming computer. The biggest thing I'm worried about is my tv shutting off without properly cooling down, and my PS3 shutting off while I'm saving a game and files getting corrupted. I really think this will do the job, and I appreciate all your insights. I know there is always going to be better, but I don't have that kind of budget at this time.

Capacity is a tricky thing with UPS marketing , they like to show off the big numbers like 1500 which is the VA but that is only 900 watts. Then you have to figure in the battery size , which in this unit is :
Battery Size 12V/8.5AH = 102 watts .

That means that for one hour the most this battery can output is 102 watts per minute for a total of 60 minutes or 6,120 watts. I like to us a 80% figure for batteries to account for voltage drop and inverter loss so about 4900 watts total.

Your load is 585 watts so to get minutes run time 4900 watts power reserve / 585 = about 8 minutes run time off battery. The last thing to consider is if the power is just going off one time and back on or if it does it several times during a two hour period. If the power goes on and off a lot during that time you need to add up all those downtime minutes as it can take a UPS 8-16 hours to recover from an outage.

8 minutes is plenty of time. If the power actually goes out for more than a minute, then I'm just going to turn everything off. Usually the power only goes out for a split second, which I'm guessing is more of an undervoltage thing than the power actually going out. When that happens though, everything shuts off. The power supply in one of my computers went bad because of that once. That's why I'm making the move to protect my equipment with more than just a surge protector.

Seriously, thanks for all the responses everyone. When I move out of my townhouse and into a single family home, I'm going to look into full home surge protection and other forms of power protection.

 

[westom]

I'm not looking for the absolute best setup. I'm just looking for a setup that will get the job done pretty decently and protect my equipment pretty well for around a $200 budget. I suffer from the same things as you, when my AC kicks in the lights dim.

You need to decide which problem you are trying to solve.

The UPS does not provide and does not even claim to provide surge protection. View its numeric specifications. That surge protection is about as near to zero as is possible. And near zero surge protection means sales brochures can imply 100% protection to those who always ignore numbers.

That UPS is for temporary power during blackouts. That's it. Worse. Well only an engineer would own and use an oscilloscope. Learn what it really does rather than learn from hearsay. A typical $100 120 volt UPS output two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. This is what most call 'clean' power. This is also what the manufacturer defines as a modified sine wave. And no, the manufacturer is not lying. Other who know without first learning facts automatically make assumptions.

Why is that spike of up to 270 volts not harmful to electronics? Because all electronics have been required to be that robust. Even 120 volt electronics 40 years ago were required to withstand 600 volt spikes without damage. Today, those standards are above 1000 volts.

So, what exactly are you trying to protect from? 'Dirty' electricity? Well, some of the 'dirtiest' electricity comes from a UPS in battery backup mode.

Protection in every appliance is so robust that, well, are you replacing dimmer switches every day? According to myths that promote a UPS or power strip protector, those destructive surges happen every day generated by every major appliance. How long is the line in every hardware store replacing dimming switches, bathroom GFCIs, and clock radios - daily? Just an engineer demonstrating how widespread the lies and myths really are.

A surge that can overwhelm protection inside appliances occurs maybe once every seven years. Nothing in a power strip or UPS even claims to protect from that surge. In fact, the UPS connects an appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode (that is when the UPS output power is 'cleanest').

In any building where damage must never happen, they waste no money on those scams. Instead they spend less money for a solution well proven for over 100 years - one 'whole house' protector and earthing.

Your telco's switching computer is connected directly to overhead wires all over town. It suffers about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. And must never be damaged. So that all surges (including direct lightning strikes) are irrelevant, the protector is located where each wire (in each cable) enters the building. As close to earth ground as possible. And up to 50 meters separated from electronics. Separation is also essential to effective protection.

You can accomplish same with solutions from the more responsible companies such as Square D, Intermatic, Leviton, Keison, Siemens, or General Electric. The effective Cutler-Hammer solutions sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Do you want surge protection. The superior solution costs maybe $1 per protected appliance.

Now, if an air conditioner and refrigerator are causing dimming lights, then a human safety problem may exist inside household wiring. Those appliances never cause dimming lights if the wires are properly and firmly connected. Worst case, you have a potential fire threat. This is not something to ignore. Fix defective wiring. Do not cure symptoms with a UPS. But again, only the engineer would warn about things that a majority ignored and did not even understand. A majority of the replies are popular myths; contrary to basic electrical knowledge. Fix the wires. Do not cure symptoms.

You must decide what you want to fix before buying anything. That UPS is being recommending on hearsay, wild speculation, and electrical ignorance. Provided here is enough to start asking so damning and necessary questions.

 

[kalrith]

westom, what's your source supporting your claims that UPSs provide dirty power? Also, what would you recommend that the OP does in his current townhouse, which I assume he doesn't have authority to mess with the wiring or install a whole-house surge protector?

 

[Krazy4Real]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear on my statement westom. My lights don't stay dim when the AC or clothes dryer are on. They only dim for a split second and then go back to normal. All of my devices stay on still. I just don't think that the undervoltage is good for my devices over time. I know that UPS don't have the greatest surge protection. That's why I'm getting a separate surge protector that is rated higher.

I'm also not planning on running on battery power all the time. 99.9% of the time everything is ok. It's just that if I have to decide on if my devices are forced off for not enough power for a split second (which seems to happen a couple times per year) or staying on by being supplied battery power in the mean time, my devices staying on has got to be better. My UPS on my main computer goes off a few times per week even though everything stays on. I'm sure something is up with the power here, but it's not in my control.

 

[westom]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear on my statement westom. My lights don't stay dim when the AC or clothes dryer are on. They only dim for a split second and then go back to normal.

Posted assumed exactly that.

Low voltage is not harmful to electronics. International design standards even 40 years ago where quite blunt about that. In the low voltage section of that chart is this expression in all capital letters: "No Damage Region". Low voltage only harms electronics where observation resulting in classic junk science conclusion.

Low voltage is destructive to other appliances such as the refrigerator, furnace, and washing machine. Motorized appliances are why utilities maintain strict limits on voltage variation - typically cannot drop voltage by more than 5%. Low voltage is destructive to motorized appliances. All electronics must work even when incandescent bulbs are at 50% intensity. To electronics, that dimming is perfectly normal voltage. How often do your lights dim that low.

Well, if dimming occurs only when a motorized appliances power on, then you may have a human safety threat. Or your household wiring is creating a low voltage that is harmful to a starting motorized appliance. A human safety defect causes bulbs to dim only when the appliance switched on or off. Fix the problem - household wiring. Do not cure symptoms.

UPSes are typically so cheap that its replacement battery costs almost as much as the entire UPS. Also so cheap that it will switch to battery power on what is otherwise perfectly good power. For example, try running a UPS from another UPS in battery backup mode. The second UPS may be so cheap as to be confused by the first in battery backup mode. Tiny spikes and square waves confuse the second UPS. Power that is perfectly acceptable to any computer causes the second UPS to switch to and remain in battery backup mode.

Just because your UPS switches to battery says nothing about your AC power. It just says your UPS responds to low voltage and to other irrelevant anomalies.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Also, UPSs typically don't have much surge protection, which is why I plugged my UPS into a surge protector, so that might be something to consider.

No, crap UPS's don't have surge protection, which is why I don't recommend any UPS's except for ones from APC.

 

[westom]

No, crap UPS's don't have surge protection, which is why I don't recommend any UPS's except for ones from APC.

A recommendation without number is often junk science - too often based in lies. If the APC is better, then post the APC numeric specs that claim that protection.

Stated previously:

Nothing in a power strip or UPS even claims to protect from that surge. In fact, the UPS connects an appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode

Also stated:

The UPS does not provide and does not even claim to provide surge protection. View its numeric specifications. That surge protection is about as near to zero as is possible. And near zero surge protection means sales brochures can imply 100% protection to those who always ignore numbers.

Show me. Show me these APC specifications that list each type of surge and protection from that surge. Show me the numbers.

 

[kalrith]

No, crap UPS's don't have surge protection, which is why I don't recommend any UPS's except for ones from APC.

I kindly offer my APC Smart UPS as an example of an APC UPS with only 470 Joules of protection. Does that mean that 470 Joules is enough protection or that my UPS is automatically crap? Anyways, I don't use it for its surge protection, so it's a moot point for me.

 

[westom]

I kindly offer my APC Smart UPS[/URL] as an example of an APC UPS with only 470 Joules of protection. Does that mean that 470 Joules is enough protection or that my UPS is automatically crap?

First, 470 joules means it only uses 160 joules and never more than 320 joules for protection. Second, how do 300 joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't.

A typical UPS has one function. To provide power during blackouts and extreme brownouts. So that unsaved data can be saved. Other electrical anomalies are solved elsewhere.

For example, what is dirty power? Spikes, noise, harmonics, frequency variations, leakages? A typical UPS does not claim to solve other anomalies that might harm. Even safety ground bypasses a UPS.

A UPS has only one function - temporary and typically dirtier power.

And so the question must be answered before a solution is recommended. What is the anomaly to be solved?

 

[Krazy4Real]

The number one thing I am looking for is stated in my OP. I want to prevent my DLP from being forcefully shut off. That shortens the life of the bulb. I also don't want my PS3 to shut off while I'm in the middle of saving a game. This is what the UPS is for. I have about 8 minutes to shut everything down before I run out of power in the event of a total power loss.

The second thing I'm looking for is to make sure that voltage is regulated so that it is always constant 120v supplied to my devices. Third thing is to clean any noise or interference in the power that is supplied to my devices.

This is the UPS I purchased for $138. It also has automatic voltage regulation.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...jtl0VVSwmgpu9A

Power Protection Type: UPS Battery Backup
Watts: 900 Watt
Volt Amps: 1500 VA
Output Frequency Regulation: 60 Hz
Surge Energy Capacity: 1080 Joules
Connected Equipment Warranty: $500,000

I know that a UPS isn't the best thing to use to protect against surges, so I got a surge protector as well. This is the unit I bought for $21.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812102407

Output Amperage Capacity 15
Maximum Spike Amperage 150,000 Amps
AC Suppression Joule Rating 3600 Joules
EMI/RFI Noise Filter 150KHz to 100MHz
Clamping Voltage 330 Volts
Protection Modes H-N, N-G and H-G
Connected Equipment Warranty: $150,000

This offers more protection as well as <1ns switching compared to the UPS at 15ms. It also has EMI and RFI noise filtering. This is perfect since the UPS basically passes through the AC power when not in battery mode. Also in the event of a catastrophic event, this product is designed to shutdown protecting any connected equipment. This will cause the device to permanently fail and need to be replaced. It's backed by a lifetime warranty though so it would be a free replacement.

This combination should fit my needs well within my budget. In a few years when I move into a single family home, I will look into full home surge protection and making sure that I have good clean power running to everything in my home.

 

[Modelworks]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear on my statement westom. My lights don't stay dim when the AC or clothes dryer are on. They only dim for a split second and then go back to normal. All of my devices stay on still. I just don't think that the undervoltage is good for my devices over time. I know that UPS don't have the greatest surge protection. That's why I'm getting a separate surge protector that is rated higher.

It really depends on how far the power is dropping during that split second as to whether it is causing harm to electronics. Most electronics in the USA function fine down to about 100 volts, some do better going as low as 85 volts but it isn't the rule. The only way to know how far it drops is with a meter that supports max and min functions. Early in consumer devices most things like stereos used transformers and large capacitors for filtering in the power supplies, which made them less susceptible to voltage sags. Now most devices are switching supplies which tend to use smaller capacitors and are more likely to be affected by the drops.

I'm also not planning on running on battery power all the time. 99.9% of the time everything is ok. It's just that if I have to decide on if my devices are forced off for not enough power for a split second (which seems to happen a couple times per year) or staying on by being supplied battery power in the mean time, my devices staying on has got to be better. My UPS on my main computer goes off a few times per week even though everything stays on. I'm sure something is up with the power here, but it's not in my control.

Quick cycling on and off of power can be one of the worst things for devices. Every time you plug something in then unplug it there is an inrush of current while the components like capacitors build up a charge. It is okay for it to happen once in a while, but not every day of the week as that does add strain to the circuits.

The so called dirty power from a UPS is a non issue with switch mode supplies, they can even run off pure square wave and work fine.

270 volts output is non sense , not only is that not true , it would be more costly to build and would use more power than is needed. I have oscilloscopes, true RMS meters and all that stuff and the only time I have seen some of the stuff he is talking about is from UPS made in the 1980's that used transistors and one of the transistor pairs was failing.

 

[westom]

The second thing I'm looking for is to make sure that voltage is regulated so that it is always constant 120v supplied to my devices. Third thing is to clean any noise or interference in the power that is supplied to my devices.

Any voltage variations must be so trivial as to not harm the refrigerator, furnace, etc. Any greater voltage variations are made completely irrelevant by the TV, et al switching power supplies.

As for surges, neither that UPS nor your power strip claims any protection. Anything that might work on the power cord is already inside each appliance. Same functions that also make that up to 270 volt spike from a UPS irrelevant.

What happens when a typically destructive surge, seeking earth ground, arrives at that protector? Your specs say it. A 6,000 volt surge on the black (hot) wire is 5,670 volts on the other two wires ... and still seeking earth ground. Where do up to 150,000 amps go? It is electricity. That 150,000 amps must flow through everything simultaneously in a path to earth ground. Where does that 150,000 amps go? Why do telcos not put protectors adjacent to their electronics. That 150kamps may find earth ground via nearby appliances - overwhelm protection inside some appliance.

EMI/RFI filtering? I don't see anything that claims filtering. I can buy a 5 cent capacitor that does the exact same filtering. What filtering? It has a 5 cent capacitor so that you can claim 100&#37; filtering? It has near zero filtering. Near zero filtering is 100% filtering when using speculation. Where is the dBs per decade number? It has near zero filtering.

How does its 2400 joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. No 'box' makes energy disappear. Either a surge is connected short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground. Or that surge is inside the building hunting for earth, destructively, via appliances.

Noted earlier: "Other electrical anomalies are solved elsewhere." A surge protector too far from earth ground and too close to the appliance (TV) may earth that surge destructively through any nearby appliance. Hundreds of thousands of joules must dissipate somewhere. During an analysis of powered off computers, two plug-in protectors adjacent to two computers earthed that surge destructively through the network. To earth destructively via the a modem in distant third computer. Yes, one excellent path to earth is the 'whole house' protector routine on all telephone wires.

Why does the telco install a 'whole house protector on every subscriber interface? Because effective protectors also cost less. For your AC mains, the effective solution costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Effective protector is located at the service entrance - for about $1 per protected appliance. How much did you spend for a protector that does not even claim protection?

Meanwhile, how does a powered off light bulb get hotter - destroy itself?

All electronics contain massive protection that makes voltage variations, most surges, sudden power off, etc all irrelevant. Your concern is the transient that can overwhelm protection inside that TV, et al. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either energy is absorbed harmlessly in earth. Or that energy is inside the building hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Effective protectors always have that dedicated wire for the short connection to earth. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. "Other electrical anomalies are solved elsewhere."

 

[Apex]

What do you think of products like those from Zero Surge and Brickwall, westom? Worthwile?

 

[Fallen Kell]

A recommendation without number is often junk science - too often based in lies. If the APC is better, then post the APC numeric specs that claim that protection.

Stated previously: Also stated: Show me. Show me these APC specifications that list each type of surge and protection from that surge. Show me the numbers.

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1500LCD&total_watts=200


Output
Output Power Capacity
865 Watts / 1500 VA
Max Configurable Power
865 Watts / 1500 VA
Nominal Output Voltage
120V
Output Frequency (sync to mains)
60 Hz
Crest Factor
3 : 1
Waveform Type
Stepped approximation to a sinewave


Surge Protection and Filtering
Surge energy rating
340 Joules
Filtering
Full time multi-pole noise filtering : 5&#37; IEEE surge let-through : zero clamping response time : meets UL 1449
Data Line Protection
RJ-45 Modem/Fax/DSL/10-100 Base-T protection,Co-axial Video / Cable protection


Conformance
Regulatory Approvals
FCC Part 15 Class B,FCC Part 68,NOM,TUV
Standard Warranty
3 years repair or replace
Equipment protection policy
Lifetime : $150000
Environmental Compliance
RoHS

Note that they are putting their money where their mouth is with a $150,000 equipment protection over the lifetime of the UPS. And that is just the more common home models... If you need more protection, jump to the business class gear.

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SMT1000&total_watts=50

Output
Output Power Capacity
670 Watts / 1000 VA
Max Configurable Power
670 Watts / 1000 VA
Nominal Output Voltage
120V
Output Voltage Distortion
Less than 5% at full load
Output Frequency (sync to mains)
47 - 53 Hz for 50 Hz nominal,57 - 63 Hz for 60 Hz nominal
Crest Factor
up to 5 : 1
Waveform Type
Sine wave


Surge Protection and Filtering
Surge energy rating
645 Joules
Filtering
Full time multi-pole noise filtering : 0.3% IEEE surge let-through : zero clamping response time : meets UL 1449

 

[westom]

...
Surge Protection and Filtering
Surge energy rating
340 Joules
Filtering
Full time multi-pole noise filtering : 5&#37; IEEE surge let-through : zero clamping response time : meets UL 1449
Data Line Protection
RJ-45 Modem/Fax/DSL/10-100 Base-T protection,Co-axial Video / Cable protection
...
Surge Protection and Filtering
Surge energy rating
645 Joules
Filtering
Full time multi-pole noise filtering : 0.3% IEEE surge let-through : zero clamping response time : meets UL 1449

Any communication major can 'cut and paste' numbers. You were asked to demonstrate technical knowledge. Where are numbers that lists each type of surge and protection from that surge? No such number is provided

But let's view your numbers. Destructive surges are typically hundreds of thousands of joules. How much does your protector absorb? They say 645 joules. Near zero protection. And what do they forget to mention? Only 215 joules and never more than 430 joules do any protection. Your numbers say protection is pathetic - near zero. Just large enough to claim "surge protection" in capital letters in sales brochures.

Let's view more numbers. UL1449. Underwriter Labs does not rate surge protection. From basic electrical or construction knowledge: UL is only about human safety. During UL testing, the protector can completely fail - provide no surge protection. And still be UL1449 certified. Why? As long as it fails and does not spit sparks and flames, then UL rates it safe.

Listed previously was a 120 volt UPS that outputs two 200 volt square waves in battery backup mode. That is also called a sine wave. From high school math, reason why is obvious. A square wave is nothing more than sums of sine waves. Others describe same output using other terms: Modified sine wave. Stepped sine wave. Bottom line. Sine wave output says only enough to make you feel good. Says little about 'cleaner' power. Does not even list a THD number. And does nothing to prove surge protection.

The challenge: where does manufacturer claim surge protection? I still do not see it. I posted that challenge knowing exactly what would be posted. You do not even cite which number is significant - which is what I expect from those who do not ask damning technical questions. Worse, your entire response is subjective - which is how so many also knew Saddam had WMDs. Another example of what happens when one does not first learn the numbers and ask damning questions.

Let's view another number. How many surge amps does it absorb? How many volts does it block? How does a 2 cm part inside both grossly undersized protectors stop what three miles of sky could not? Why do those specs not have any numbers to answer those questions? Answers say why we install (earth) a 'whole house' protector.

Your numbers suggest it will be destroyed by a surge too small to overwhelm protection inside electronics. Being destroyed by a surge too small to harm electronics is how ineffective protectors get promoted by the technically naive.

You did not cite which numbers are significant. Your numbers do not make protection claims. You did what any communication major (the technically naive) would do. Cut and paste in a desperate hope that something will answer the challenge. And that is why so many waste tens or 100 times more money on protectors do that do not even claim to provide protection. At what point does the word scam have significance?

Oh. We did not even discuss the mythical warranty yet. A warranty so chock full of exemptions as to not be honored. For example, some APC warranties say that a protector in the building from any other manufacturer voids their warranty. Why? With so many exemptions, you will hype the big buck warranty - and they will not honor it.

Protection has always been about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Knowledge even from 100 years ago. Neither that UPS nor power strip has the always required 'dedicated' connection to earth. And neither spec will even discuss earth ground - the most critical component in any effective protection system. They use 'communication major' logic to promote their products. Please, where are actual numbers that claim protection? Please learn technology. Anyone can cut and paste propaganda. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Reality from 100 years ago did not change.

 

[westom]

What do you think of products like those from Zero Surge and Brickwall, westom? Worthwile?

Let's put a big dam across the river. Does that dam stop the massive flood? Of course not. Now, let&#8217;s move that dam to the town - call it a dike. Does that structure now stop a flood? Of course not. It only helps divert the flood to the 'surge protection' - that big channel downriver.

Zerosurge, Brickwall, and Surgex are dikes. Big dikes. They do not stop surges (despite some sales propaganda that implies it.) First you must have the big channel downriver - the 'whole house' protector.

Once that 'big downriver channel' is installed, then supplement that protection with Brickwall, et al.

However, appreciate what you are protecting. One path that bypassed protection in electronics is a safety ground wire. It bypasses the Surgex, et al device. And it bypasses protection already inside every power supply. Anything you install to transfer a surge to the safety ground wire may hunt for earth destructively via electronics.

What was a most common path through computers? Incoming to the motherboard via that safety ground wire. Through modem. To earth via a good connection to earth - the telephone line's 'whole house' protector. An example of how the 'dike' is bypassed - how damage can still occur - why better earthing at a 'whole house' protector is so critically important.

It is supplemental protection. But has weaknesses that others forget to discuss. Zerosurge, et al demonstrate how large a power conditioner must be to begin serious power conditioning. Those devices are typically installed for lesser transients: EMC/RFI/EMI. Doing so also acts as the dike during a surge.

 

[Apex]

Thanks for the input, westom.

You think there's a worthwhile difference between the whole-house units from say, Intermatic or Leviton, and a high end unit from someone like Eaton Innovative Technology TVSS?