Looking for input on new AMD APU based build.

[Giamhe]

Hey guys,

I am looking for some input on my new build. After multiple BSODs, and an aging computer, decided to rebuild my entire system. I am reusing most components of my older setup. The only new parts will be the APU, Motherboard.

Essentially i am only spending $200 for this new build. The entire configuration is as such..
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Xa36

I will be using the computer with 2x 23" 1080p samsung monitors for concurrent multi tasking of
One monitor playing Counterstrike source at 1080p
the other monitor will be often used for 1080p youtube video watching

My questions are:
1) Is my PSU capable of powering this system?
2) Will the system be able to power both 1080p displays for my multitasking and usage?
3) Are there any potential bottlenecks or problems i am unaware of?

Kindly note:
I am choosing the APU because i can tag on a Graphics card in the future if i require so.
I only need it to perform the duties as per stated. Nothing more.
I am hoping with the APU as the only source of heat, i can limit total system heat output.

Do feel free to voice out your opinions, I am really looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks..

Thank you in advance.

 

[wilds]

I usually recommend getting a new PSU after 5-8 years so depending on the age, it may be time to get one.

The A10-6790K is $120 at Newegg in my area.

The A10-7850K is about $60 more but you get 512 stream processors vs 384. It will help in games, but you have to ask yourself if the cost is worth it.

Anandtech did a good review of the newer APU's and you can see the performance difference between the old and the new.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

The APU's integrated graphics will be the ultimate bottleneck in your system. As you say, you plan on upgrading in the future, but I think thats a waste of money. Purchasing a 750k offers the same (unlocked) CPU performance at a much lower price. Using those savings, I'd purchase a better GPU at the same time.

If you decide on waiting a few years down the road to get a dGPU, you may find that your CPU will now be obsolete and will have to start a new build anyways. I don't have a lot of faith in AMD's single-threaded performance in many games unless Mantle and proper multi-threading support continues to grow. It's irritating when a game is bottlenecking a single core and the only thing to increase FPS is to raise the clockspeed.

Even though the APU's graphics are 'weak' they can definitely run Counter Strike without a problem and can easily play 1080p video.

At $120, the A8-7600 is in range as well. Although I can't find it for sale yet, it officially supports 2133 MHz RAM, unlike the A10-6790K. The CPU performance is lower, but overall framerates on the 7600 with fast ram will be higher than the 6790k.

The A10-5800K and A10-6800K along with Kaveri support 2133 MHz which can have a pretty big impact in gaming.

Eurogamer did a good job comparing RAM speeds and framerates of this new APU.

If you were to get an APU, I'd definitely get some fast RAM; unless you plan on getting a new dGPU in a few months.

 

[Giamhe]

I usually recommend getting a new PSU after 5-8 years so depending on the age, it may be time to get one.

The A10-6790K is $120 at Newegg in my area.

The A10-7850K is about $60 more but you get 512 stream processors vs 384. It will help in games, but you have to ask yourself if the cost is worth it.

Anandtech did a good review of the newer APU's and you can see the performance difference between the old and the new.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

The APU's integrated graphics will be the ultimate bottleneck in your system. As you say, you plan on upgrading in the future, but I think thats a waste of money. Purchasing a 750k offers the same (unlocked) CPU performance at a much lower price. Using those savings, I'd purchase a better GPU at the same time.

If you decide on waiting a few years down the road to get a dGPU, you may find that your CPU will now be obsolete and will have to start a new build anyways. I don't have a lot of faith in AMD's single-threaded performance in many games unless Mantle and proper multi-threading support continues to grow. It's irritating when a game is bottlenecking a single core and the only thing to increase FPS is to raise the clockspeed.

Even though the APU's graphics are 'weak' they can definitely run Counter Strike without a problem and can easily play 1080p video.

At $120, the A8-7600 is in range as well. Although I can't find it for sale yet, it officially supports 2133 MHz RAM, unlike the A10-6790K. The CPU performance is lower, but overall framerates on the 7600 with fast ram will be higher than the 6790k.

The A10-5800K and A10-6800K along with Kaveri support 2133 MHz which can have a pretty big impact in gaming.

Eurogamer did a good job comparing RAM speeds and framerates of this new APU.

If you were to get an APU, I'd definitely get some fast RAM; unless you plan on getting a new dGPU in a few months.

Hey ZGR, thank you for the kind input, I know for sure, as much as possible i'm not going to stick a dedicated GPU in. However, from your reviews, i see the A10-6800k and A10-7850k performs close enough for me to not be able to justify the cost.

I'm looking at the A10-6700 specifically because of the lower heat output, but my main concern is whether it will be able to CONCURRENTLY run CS Source and 1080 video at the same time..

can you give me any further advice? Thank you for the links and informative answer.

 

[Cerb]

Hey guys,

I am looking for some input on my new build. After multiple BSODs, and an aging computer, decided to rebuild my entire system. I am reusing most components of my older setup. The only new parts will be the APU, Motherboard.

...and PSU. Do not follow up an unstable old PC by re-using the PSU. It ages, too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc..._-na-_-na-_-na
$30 AMIR+AP, right now. Yes, they're good about rebates.

Dual-monitor with video playback and gaming: not many of us have tried. Videos would be a distraction. It should work, though, if you can set CS:S to operate in windowed mode. (I have a Geforce, so results wouldn't be terribly relevant, if I did try)

 

[wilds]

I notice some games do no play well with other full screen windows. To fix this stuttering issue, enabling a borderless window mode for the game seems to fix all problems. Definitely a Windows issue. That's powered by my 650m, which has GDDR5, so it may not be comparable...

Since Counter Strike is a DX9 game, I bet it will be fine. I'm sure someone on this forum has a similar setup that could provide some input.

The 6800k is the same silicon as the 6700, just unlocked with a higher clock speed. Lowering the 6800k's turbo below 4GHz will drastically lower power consumption.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I'm looking at the A10-6700 specifically because of the lower heat output, but my main concern is whether it will be able to CONCURRENTLY run CS Source and 1080 video at the same time..

The 6700 is a great little APU, that fits what you want to do nicely. If you want to save a few bucks, the 6500 is worth a look. Its only slightly (~10%) slower. Where I live the 6700 is actually more expensive then the 6800K, so watch out.

...and PSU. Do not follow up an unstable old PC by re-using the PSU. It ages, too.

Agree. It's time to get a new PSU. The Corsair CX430 is very good at the price.

The 6800k is the same silicon as the 6700, just unlocked with a higher clock speed. Lowering the 6800k's turbo below 4GHz will drastically lower power consumption.

If you really want to save power, you should use (1600MHz) 1.35V DIMMs. From personal experience the difference between 1.35V (1600MHz) and 1.65V (2133MHz) memory is somewhere around 30W. It sounds crazy but its true enough, 1.5V falls somewhere in the middle.

Oddly enough the CPU likes low latency memory most. The reverse is true for the IGP, it likes the highest frequency possible. So memory wise its a trade-off...

The A10-5800K and A10-6800K along with Kaveri support 2133 MHz which can have a pretty big impact in gaming.

No. The A10-6800K is the only Richland/Trinity with official support for 2133MHz. Perhaps with good reason (see above).

 

[wilds]

Oops you're right. I did see several benchmarks with 2133 MHz RAM with the 5800k, but it is not officially supported.

It's a tough call choosing memory speed. The high cost of speedy memory is a large downside since low voltage 1600 MHz is much cheaper. If you got a 6800k with 2133 MHz RAM it would be a more expensive build than getting a 750k, a good GPU, and slower RAM.

If I was confined to a small form factor, the APU would be the way to go, but I would always go to a dGPU because of the huge performance advantage and not needing fast RAM for an FPS boost.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It's a tough call choosing memory speed. The high cost of speedy memory is a large downside since low voltage 1600 MHz is much cheaper. If you got a 6800k with 2133 MHz RAM it would be a more expensive build than getting a 750k, a good GPU, and slower RAM.

Now there is something we agree on. Not to mention that 750K/760K is good for at least 4GHz with the stock cooler, since it doesn't have to power that power-hungry on-chip IGP...

Unless you're physically incapable of mounting a discrete graphics card, or are limited to low-profile ones, APU+high-speed RAM doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Cerb]

Agree. It's time to get a new PSU. The Corsair CX430 is very good at the price.

The CX500 is $3 less AMIR. Do the rebate, and net a PSU that's a bit better (better fan and heatsinks, and both rely on AMIRs, so no post office differences to account for).

If you really want to save power, you should use (1600MHz) 1.35V DIMMs. From personal experience the difference between 1.35V (1600MHz) and 1.65V (2133MHz) memory is somewhere around 30W. It sounds crazy but its true enough, 1.5V falls somewhere in the middle.

That middle isn't linear, though. Power increase is on the square of the voltage, then linear on speed. I can believe a 30W difference from 2133@1.65V, but it won't be a 10W from 1.5V to 1.35V. 1.35V should not be avoided or anything, but you'll be saving very little power, and if that much is worth saving, then an AMD CPU shouldn't even be considered.

Oddly enough the CPU likes low latency memory most. The reverse is true for the IGP, it likes the highest frequency possible. So memory wise its a trade-off...

Not too odd, really. The CPU is grabbing random 64B and 128B chunks of memory, and praying it has the right ones before they are needed, hundreds of cycles ahead of execution. When it doesn't get that right, you're stuck waiting on getting the right data from RAM. So, the quicker you can do that, the better, and it takes much longer to change addresses than it does to transfer the data. Meanwhile, the GPU is worried about perfectly predictable multi-megabyte chunks of RAM, and it takes longer to transfer the data than it does to address it.

With prices a few months ago, 2133-2400 would have been easy, but now, for a cheap build, I don't know. There are some for $80-90, but it's $60-70 for 1600. Since part of this is being pretty cheap, it's a hard call, IMO. But, all else being equal, the faster RAM will be faster overall, with the IGP. Note, when looking at such RAM, that 1866 CAS 11, and 2133 CAS 12, are around the same latency as 1600MHz CAS 9.

 

[Cerb]

OK, up to now, I haven't looked much further on the build than RAM and PSU.

But, it looks like there's plenty of room to save, and still make roughly $200 work. CS:S is not all that hard on modern hardware. I'm assuming all the other parts have already been purchased.

Your mobo choice looks good to me.
Go for the A10-6790K, and save almost $30. The 65W model you selected is only useful for TDP-limited cases, much in the same way that the Intel S and T models are. When not under full load, both CPUs will scale down to similar power levels. 100W TDP doesn't mean it uses 100W, just that it wasn't binned for using <65W under full load.
Then, get the CX500, before the promo+AMIR run out, and do the rebate.

The result should end up just barely over the $200 mark.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The CX500 is $3 less AMIR. Do the rebate, and net a PSU that's a bit better (better fan and heatsinks, and both rely on AMIRs, so no post office differences to account for).

Since I'm not American, I don't really have a feel for pricing in NA. If the CX500 is only $3 more, it makes sense to get that instead.

That middle isn't linear, though. Power increase is on the square of the voltage, then linear on speed. I can believe a 30W difference from 2133@1.65V, but it won't be a 10W from 1.5V to 1.35V. 1.35V should not be avoided or anything, but you'll be saving very little power, and if that much is worth saving, then an AMD CPU shouldn't even be considered.

I should have specified that those 30W are at the wall and does not take PSU efficiency into account. Actual power consumption will be lower of course. Usually I mostly worry more about what I'm pulling from the wall socket, because that's what I'm billed for. And electricity is expensive here in Denmark (>40c).

With 1.65V RAM, total system power consumption is ~125W. With 1.5V ~110W and again with 1.35V hovers around 95W. I don't think the RAM is responsible "directly", its likely the IMC that's using more power.

Not too odd, really. The CPU is grabbing random 64B and 128B chunks of memory, and praying it has the right ones before they are needed, hundreds of cycles ahead of execution. When it doesn't get that right, you're stuck waiting on getting the right data from RAM. So, the quicker you can do that, the better, and it takes much longer to change addresses than it does to transfer the data. Meanwhile, the GPU is worried about perfectly predictable multi-megabyte chunks of RAM, and it takes longer to transfer the data than it does to address it.

With prices a few months ago, 2133-2400 would have been easy, but now, for a cheap build, I don't know. There are some for $80-90, but it's $60-70 for 1600. Since part of this is being pretty cheap, it's a hard call, IMO. But, all else being equal, the faster RAM will be faster overall, with the IGP. Note, when looking at such RAM, that 1866 CAS 11, and 2133 CAS 12, are around the same latency as 1600MHz CAS 9.

I didn't mean "odd" in that sense, because what you wrote is my thinking too. From all the "fiddling" I've done with the AMD IMC, I've learned two things:

1) Frequency does matter, but not at the expense of timings. I'd really like to get access to a kit that could do 1866/2133MHz with as low timings as possible. Just to confirm what I'm suspecting. 2133MHz at 11-12-11-30 CR1 is actually slightly slower then 1600MHz at 9-9-9-27 CR1.
2) The IMC loves double sided DIMMs. Apparently Kaveri does as well.

 

[mfenn]

Why is everybody going on about the OP's PSU? He has a CX600, which is more than powerful enough and can't be more than 2-3 years old. It definitely does not need replacing.

As for the CPU, I agree that the A10-6970K makes more sense than the A10-6700 given current pricing. The 65W chip is only useful for extremely thermally-constrained environments, which your average desktop Micro ATX case is not. In fact, the faster chip will most likely use less overall energy if you cap the FPS at a fixed value (say 60), because it will be able to finish rendering the frame and go to sleep faster.

 

[Cerb]

That it's being replaced due to BSODs, not performance, and the OP has no indication what part or parts currently cause said BSODs, and that bad PSUs are often the cause. But, without having another PSU, it's also hard to say it is the PSU, or isn't, without some other obvious signs, like bulged caps somewhere. $30 of PSU insurance, basically.

 

[Giamhe]

Hi all, I apologise for the delayed update. Was really busy over the weekend.

Anyhow, I wish to clarify,

InsertNickname,
you're right with the A10-6700 being more expensive than the A10-6800k, however, i went ahead and choose that due to the TDP rating. I do understand that when not fully loaded, the A10-6800k will be performing similar way to the A10-6700. I choose it because at least even when the CPU is fully loaded, I can be sure i wont be facing any heating problems from such a SFF Case. I'm thinking I might even start by turning Turbo off the A10-6700, if it runs fine, i'll run it that way, if it doesn't i'll turn Turbo back on. The A10-6790k is avaliable, however, i only found that out after purchasing the 6700, also its 100W TDP rated same as the 6800k

Everyone that ask me to get a new PSU,
yes with regards to that, if necessary, I will.. However, i dont seem to have any problem with my current one, therefore, i think I will assembly the entire rig, run it a couple of days, before deciding if a new PSU is really necessary. Also just to correct myself, the unit i have at home is the Corsair HX650.. It is still under warranty, so if necessary, i'll head down to get it changed.

ZGR,
thank you for the borderless windows tip. I will keep that in mind if i face any stuttering problem. Its great to be aware of "might-have" problems, then to face them and start searching for solutions. So that i do thank you greatly.

Everyone that propose to me to get new RAMs,
I do agree, and i have research enough to know, the faster the ram, the more FPS i'll get especially with this APU setup. However, since i already have the 8GB Gskill RipjawsX 1600mhz kit, I was thinking more towards to use them first, and if i really couldn't get the performance i needed/wanted, i'll upgrade them. I have recently brought them down to the manufacturer, thinking its the Ram sticks having problems that cause BSOD regarding memory management. It has been checked through and deem fit and working perfectly fine.

Cerb,
Currently as of now, I am sure my RAMs are working fine.
I am guessing my PSU is working fine too, I will bring it down to the manufacturer to get that checked as well.


Lastly, I will like to express why I am looking more towards an APU option as opposed to a CPU GPU setup. My computer has very tight space and thermal constraints. I can fit a GPU if i wanted to, but the old Computer with the HD5850 and the AMD 965BE was generating so much heat i didnt felt comfortable with it(55-60 Celsius on average). This is why i rather an APU cause i believe that irregardless of any situation, the APU overall heat output will be lesser than a CPU + GPU output. That being said, of course i still need my system to perform and fulfill my needs, but nothing more.

Spending the minimum while reducing heat output is my goal here. I'm looking more towards, getting something cheap that fulfills my needs, and not so much of whats a better performance for price. Even if i get a better component that is $1 more and a better Bang per Dollar, it wouldn't make sense to me to spend that extra buck just to not use it. I'm not sure if what i am saying makes sense to everyone.. But its kinda like a "since its on sale, i'll buy it even if i dont wear it" mentality to me..

The thing that makes it easier for me to choose is that i know specifically what my computer will be used for (CS:Go + Video playback on two seperate 1080p monitors concurrently, with downloads running in the background). This is also the reason why i'm reluctant to change out the RAMs or PSU unless necessary. If i start changing out all these, it will increase the cost significantly.

Even though so, i'm not very in touch with the current affairs on computer components and technologies, thats why i'm here seeking opinions.

so it pretty much boils down to, what is the cheapest, lowest heat generating option i can get that performs as per my needs. No consideration about bang per dollar or future proofing.. yeah and as per mentioned, i do have the RAMs, PSU, Chassis and Drives to go with it.. I will exercise due diligence and get them checked out before using them in the new rig.


yeah..


Also, I will like to thank everyone that gave me their inputs.. I am really starting to like this forum alot alot alot more than others. Fellow forumers here feel more open to discuss about these issues.. I am happy i found you guys..

🙂

 

[mfenn]

you're right with the A10-6700 being more expensive than the A10-6800k, however, i went ahead and choose that due to the TDP rating. I do understand that when not fully loaded, the A10-6800k will be performing similar way to the A10-6700. I choose it because at least even when the CPU is fully loaded, I can be sure i wont be facing any heating problems from such a SFF Case.

You should reread my post below:

Why is everybody going on about the OP's PSU? He has a CX600, which is more than powerful enough and can't be more than 2-3 years old. It definitely does not need replacing.

As for the CPU, I agree that the A10-6970K makes more sense than the A10-6700 given current pricing. The 65W chip is only useful for extremely thermally-constrained environments, which your average desktop Micro ATX case is not. In fact, the faster chip will most likely use less overall energy if you cap the FPS at a fixed value (say 60), because it will be able to finish rendering the frame and go to sleep faster.

Restating: A MicroATX case will not have any problem with a 100W chip, and the faster chip will use less energy overall.

the AMD 965BE was generating so much heat i didnt felt comfortable with it(55-60 Celsius on average).

I think you need to readjust your perceptions of what is warm and what is not. 60C might be hot for a human, but it is icy cold for a CPU. If your 965 never got above 60C, you were doing really well.

 

[Giamhe]

You should reread my post below:

Restating: A MicroATX case will not have any problem with a 100W chip, and the faster chip will use less energy overall.

I think you need to readjust your perceptions of what is warm and what is not. 60C might be hot for a human, but it is icy cold for a CPU. If your 965 never got above 60C, you were doing really well.

Yeah man, i do get your point.. Maybe i'm getting old, and my comfort zone is gradually getting smaller.. But yeah.. It may be true that 60C is icy cold for a cpu, but if its warm to me, then it will be something i wish to factor into when i get my new rig..

I hope you dont take offence, but since the heat was something that bothers me, i will rather take care of it while setting the rig up, than to constantly endure the annoyance of heat generated..

Oh well, maybe you guys are right, and the 6790k or 6800k will be running at similar temps as the 6700.. I'm here to gather opinions, and i do value everything that was say to me. Thank you.

 

[mfenn]

Humans are not silicon chips and silicon chips are not humans. Each have different requirements. So I don't know what to tell you other than "don't worry about 60C".

 

[mnewsham]

Yeah 60c is stupidly cold to keep a CPU, mine idles at around 50c, I can hit 80c with no issue.

This is on an AMD APU A10-7850k system with a decent sized cooler.