Looking for CRPG where you cast a spell to advance plot

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
In a ton of games you get to play a mage, but you are always just a glorified archer.

I am looking for any game where your in game character advances the plot by casting a minimum of one spell during the game. The paladin trilogy custom modules for neverwinter nights by rick burton you need to cast spells on alters or seals to advance plot or unlock subplots.

While in dragon age and dungeon siege you are a glorified archer who would never use magic for any plot related reasons other then combat.
A caveat is that mages could cast that spell one (or more) spell that advances the plot (rather then any person who found artifact X / necronomicon, etc) and that your character must be casting it...
In dragon age you can have other wizards sending you into the fade... whether you are a wizard or a warrior you aren't actually casting the spell yourself. Lots of games require you to find and locate a mage to cast a spell for you. (hilariously infuriating moment in dungeon siege where i finally find the mage to unlock the plot by removing an obstacle... who turns out to be a level 10 nature mage while i am level 15 nature mage, hurr durr). And in some games you come across a wand / book / gem / whatever of power that anyone can use.
 

motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
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I believe Arx Fatalis has some required casting, but it's been ages since I last played it, so I guess I can't be totally sure.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
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Well, in NWN2, crafting magical items is a use for spells out of combat. There's also at least one conversation option that uses a Spellcraft check.
And mages are certainly not glorified archers there. An archer's 4d6 damage to a single target compared to an Empowered Fireball's 15d6 (reflex half) to all targets in a 30ft area at level 10?
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
thanks motsm and DominionSeraph.

In regards to spellcraft in neverwinter nights, yes it would use spellcraft or lore, but those are skills like persuade or bluff denoting character knowledge about spells, not actual castings. And are also not limited to spellcasters. Actual spells like "charm" are never ever used in conversation; they are however used in myriad puzzles for some extra gear (given a riddle, cast the correct attack spell on the brazier for a reward).
I did mention neverwinter nights as an example of a game where you use spells. Particularly in some of the better custom modules.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
yes and it was terrible. I deleted it. I have 51 NWN1 custom campaigns (not individual modules, campaigns) which I keep in my favorites.

Problems with almraiven.
First of all it uses the NWN database to store your quest progress, that is NOT stored in the save file so reloading an earlier save and doing something different breaks all other saves. The game also tends to crash, and is full of bad design choices like a silly money system that constantly converts back and forth to gold and forcing you to micromanage every single spell component, even the trivially cheap ones, and they don't stack. You can't just get a sack with 1000 rose petals (despite being ridiculously cheap), you have to buy them individually and micromanage them.

Then there is the horrible railroading GM fiat... For example in wundra's quest you get to "choose" between saving a little girl (IIRC 7 years old) or a young woman (IIRC 15) each is a sister of a prospective NPC. You save one and the other turns into a werewolf (or was it a were rat?) and you kill her, then her family member who blames you. But to orchestrate said choice the game refuses to allow you to cure / save them until the very last moment... and by refuse I mean the dialog says "I discovered she was blah blah, who would come and kidnap her soon, so i am going to walk out to door and buy the stuff for a cure and leave her here unprotected)... despite having already brought the cure with me. And if the brother of the 15 year old girl lags behind a bit then healing inexplicably fails (the dialog says "healing has failed") and you need to kill both. So he has to watch you make the "choice"

If I wait until he is right near me before opening the door, it works. If you must base the success of a spell on his existence, then check if he is alive and in the party, rather then "nearby".

Also, the book with the instructions says to FEED the person beladona and then cast the spell on them. But the actual healing you perform says you "wash it into their wounds" (which is also silly since they are partially transformed and no longer have said wounds). This also matter because of timing issue, since it takes 6 seconds to cast a spell there is no reason for one to transform as soon as you heal the other, you should be easily able to heal both.
That whole experience stinks, reminds me of fable.

Also, keeping track of CHEAP material components? not fun. Especially since NWN already massively nerfs wizards... but anyways, its just tedious...
1. Components should be stackable (depending on the type, either 99 or 10 per stack, expensive components such as a 5000gp diamond don't have to be) as to not make a big bloody mess of inventory.
2. Some components should be much cheaper.
3. Component shops should have lots more of the basic components in stock (eg: rose petals)
4. You should start out with much more components in stock.
5. You should consider just have a pouch of "lots" of component, being effectively infinite. eg: a pouch of just pressed rose petals, it can store enough to cast the spell a thousand times over and will not be expensive at all. Makes me wish I could take "eschew components" though like in PnP.

Would have been nicer if instead of implementing massive nerfs to wizards, we were given some boons that didn't exist in NWN proper, since wizards already suck in NWN (but are gods in PnP).
Examples:
1. Component tracking only for spells that require EXPENSIVE material components. (still a nerf, but an ok one)
2. Instead of totally removing familiar, remove it (familiars a huge XP draining trap due to a bad decision in NWN1 XP algorithm, fixed in NWN2 btw), however, instead let you summon a familiar via a QUEST, said familiar will then appear as an ITEM in your INVENTORY... not as a character on the map... they would be used in gave via dialog options (eg: "command familiar to go fetch the keys for the cell"), and they will provide the bonuses they are supposed to (alertness feat, bonus to a skill or save or HP depending on familiar type).
3. Have "spellbooks" in your inventory where you record your spells, when you rest your character's "spells known" are all removed and replaced by the spells in said spell books. You can capture spellbooks belonging to other wizards (adding spells known), you could "copy" spells as per PHB @ 100gp per SL, rather then only learning them from scrolls ; which is significantly more expensive, a 9th level spell's scroll costs 25*17*9 = 3825gp. On the other hand, copying it costs 9*100 = 900gp in magical ink, and 9*50=450gp standard price paid to wizard who teaches you the spell as his teaching fee (can be zero if you are friendly enough for them to teach you spells at no charge, can be more if they hate you or think the particular spell is worth it, or whatever).
4. Allow the creation of semi-permanent / permanent tanks via golem crafting, animate spells, awaken spells, planer binding spells, dominate, etc etc (naturally many will not be available to a wizard, especially at lower levels, but having wizards actually have access to those will go a long way towards making them not suck in NWN1)
5. Allow permanent spells to exist (none in core NWN1)
6. Allow flight
7. Allow real powerful spells, such as wish (+5 to all stats here I come!), genesis, etc.
8. etc.

Instead this wizard only module has MASSIVE nerfs to what is already the absolute weakest class in NWN1 (ironically, the strongest class, bar none, in PnP) and tries to be gritty via insane railroading.
 
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DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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NWN2 OC had the Skymirror area where cleric / druid spells were cast to advance, but I agree this is all too rare.

Most professional CRPGs are lacking in the use of class skills outside of the main combat uses and looting for rogues. I suppose it's an effort issue, where adding a bunch of class-specific branches to a story would complicate it too much.

Edit: It also annoys me when the script fails to acknowledge that as a wizard I'm much smarter than the average bear, and instead just does nothing or a Lore skill check. Fallout 1-2 had some great design elements where high INT gave you extra dialog options.
 
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taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Most professional CRPGs are lacking in the use of class skills outside of the main combat uses and looting for rogues. I suppose it's an effort issue, where adding a bunch of class-specific branches to a story would complicate it too much.

that is actually a good point, its not just an issue with wizards who never cast a spell out of combat, but other archetypes who never do anything befitting their kind.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Tell us how you really feel. ;)

I'm curious to see what responses come up in this thread because it is more fun when you can use your "skills" to do "unorthodox" things.

I got emotional over that module and not in a good way...

anyways, from other sources people have mentioned to me:
1. Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem for the Gamecube. Spells are mandatory and at least two advance the plot.
2. Trine
3. Magicka

Trine is a good game and you do use spells in non combat ways. Magicka I only remember killing with spells, but also a good game.