Looking for an entry-level DSLR

[Calan]

Hi.

I'm looking to buy a <$1000 (assuming that that will get me what I need) DSLR to use for business purposes.
Has to be able to take relatively high-quality pictures (I do have a Canon SD1000, but I'm looking for something more than that), and ideally be able to take pictures of black objects while still being able to show considerable detail within the black (not sure if that is a big deal in DSLRs or not).

When not using it for work I'd like to use it while out and about and for family sort of things. Preferably be able to get a family member to be able to take a good picture without much grief on their part (I assume this means I'm looking for something with AF). Live View would be nice as well, as most people I know are used to using that to take pictures these days, though LV is not a deal-maker or breaker.
Not saying it has to be completely noob-oriented - I would be wanting to be able to use it to get more into photography myself. So I want a fairly decent camera.

No idea about lenses. I don't think I'd be looking to get a lot of lenses to start with - that would come later. I just don't want to buy something that looks good now, and then after fiddling with it for a few months find out that what I *really* want is ______. So I imagine I'd stick with just a "regular" lense (if I can say that) for the first while.

I had been reading reviews on dpreview fairly regularly, so I do know some of the terminology and what to look for, but in the past 3-6 months I haven't been keeping up on reviews so I can't really get back up onto what's hot and what's not without doing a considerable amount of reading. So if anyone could point me to some cameras I should read reviews on, or even just tell me if my "<$1000" is reasonable, that'd be nice.

Figured I'd read up a little before posting this here, and AnandTech's Holiday DigiCam article was talking about the G1, and reading the dpreview review of it it looked fairly decent. In the past I remember reading about the Sony DSLRs and thinking they would be a good option. AF, Image stabilization, sensor cleaning, etc. I just have no experience with DSLRs, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

EDIT: I know my dad put a lot of money into some lenses for his Canon A-1 way back when... not sure if they're compatible with current stuff or not... it's pretty old. If they are, however, I suppose I could use some of those lenses? I'm doubting they're compatible though...

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

nvrmnd

 

[soydios]

the Canon A-1 was an FD mount camera; none of the lenses that you bought for it will work with the current EOS mount.

Canon, Nikon, or Sony are the ones that I would look at, in no particular order.

 

[ElFenix]

the lens system that the canon A1 used was abandoned 20 years ago, unfortunately. there are adapters that allow you to use the lenses, but most of them are of such poor quality you might as well just use inexpensive lenses built for the camera.

just about every slr will perform about the same (even the G1, which isn't an SLR). the more important thing is to find something that you can work with best. that means going to a store and trying some out. bring some memory (they almost all use SD nowadays), have the sales clerk remove the little wire, and try out the buttons, menu, which way the lens turns (nikon and canon turn in different directions, nikon turns like a contax and canon turns like a leica, which goes way back to WWII), how big the viewfinders are (i've put two cameras up, one to each eye, and directly compared).

you'll also probably want a telephoto zoom lens. a two lens kit that includes both the standard ~18 to ~55 lens and a ~55 to 250+ with the camera might be the most cost effective package.

keep in mind that you'll want to keep some of your budget for memory, filters, bags, memory, cleaning supplies, card readers, memory, tripods, batteries, software, memory, etc. so budget appropriately.

you can get a two lens kit and a bunch of accessories for $1000 or from the better etailers like buydig.com

 

[Calan]

Thanks so much.

So ElFenix, you're saying there's pretty much no way I can go wrong? I'll make a trip to the store and try fiddling with some, like you said.

For lenses I'm thinking I'd just go with whatever lens comes with the camera, and then figure out what I want/need from there.

I do have many of the accessories you named already (memory, card reader, tripod, software), so I don't think I'll need to invest too too much there.

 

[Heidfirst]

Yes, whilst they do have their differences there are no bad current production DSLRs.
Handling is very important in that you are most likely to use 1 that you are comfortable with & it doesn't matter how good the image quality is if you leave it at home because you can't get on with it ...

If LiveView is important to you then try the Sony versus Canon/Nikon etc. as Sony have a rather different implimentation.
Their LiveView is by far the best if you want to use it whilst capturing moving subjects (unfortunately at the cost of a slightly smaller optical viewfinder) whereas the Canon/Nikon is better for checking critical focussing of static subjects.
& all Sony DSLRs use Compact Flash as their primary storage medium.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst
Yes, whilst they do have their differences there are no bad current production DSLRs.
Handling is very important in that you are most likely to use 1 that you are comfortable with & it doesn't matter how good the image quality is if you leave it at home because you can't get on with it ...

If LiveView is important to you then try the Sony versus Canon/Nikon etc. as Sony have a rather different implimentation.
Their LiveView is by far the best if you want to use it whilst capturing moving subjects (unfortunately at the cost of a slightly smaller optical viewfinder) whereas the Canon/Nikon is better for checking critical focussing of static subjects.
& all Sony DSLRs use Compact Flash as their primary storage medium.

the canon liveview refreshes at 2x the rate of nikon liveview, which makes it much more useful on moving things than nikon. no idea on sony's refresh rate.

of the pentaxes only the k20d has live view.

the sony method of doing live view makes the viewfinder smaller. because it doesn't do live view, the less expensive a200 has a much larger viewfinder than the more expensive a300 and a350.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

the canon liveview refreshes at 2x the rate of nikon liveview, which makes it much more useful on moving things than nikon. no idea on sony's refresh rate.

it's the fact that the Sony LiveView system uses a second sensor thereby allowing the use of the camera's normal phase detect AF (without mirror flipping) that allows it to AF in LiveView faster than the Canon/Nikon equivalents & hence make it better for capturing moving subjects.

Of course finding the room for that sensor also leads to the slightly smaller (.74x v .83x on the A200) optical viewfinder.
Similarly it's inability to check critical focus using LiveView is because the sensor providing the LiveView image & the actual recorded image are different.

 

[ElFenix]

sony can use phase af as much as it wants but if the refresh rate is the same as on a typical compact camera you're still going to have problems tracking moving subjects because you can't keep the camera on the target. but, as i said, i have no idea what sony's refresh rate is like.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Could you be more specific about what you are going to be shooting?

In any case, the Canon XSi is a very competent starter camera, while the Nikon D90 bumps it up a few notches. Likewise, the Canon 50D bumps it up further.

I just got a D90 and I love it.

I think that Canon puts out slightly sharper and more colorful images (IMO) with less need for photoshop, but Nikon has better controls/screens on its cameras.

 

[ElFenix]

D90 is going to eat the entire budget

nikon's controls are only better cuz you're used to them

 

[OnePingOnly]

Canon Rebel XSi. I love mine.

 

[tdawg]

Does it seem to anybody else that the OP should be putting some of the budget aside for a lighting system? I'd imagine shooting black objects while retaining texture is going to require directional lighting, rather than head on from the pop-up flash on a camera. Depending on portability needs, a cheap lamp with a bare bulb might do the trick to cast contrast lighting on the subject, but the OP might have to look at flash setups that allow easy off-camera options.

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to specific scenario shooting like this, but it seems like this need is possibly being tabled.

 

[soydios]

@tdawg:
for lighting, I know the Nikon speedlights (other than the SB-400) have an "SU-4" mode which fires them at a manually preset intensity whenever it sees a flash. I presume that the Canon and Sony speedlights also have this feature. you are quite correct in that the OP will need off-axis lighting to pull texture out of black.

 

[Heidfirst]

all Sony DSLRs bar the A900 have built in wireless flash (using popup flash as trigger) for controlling off camera flashguns.

 

[alexruiz]

Pentax K2000.
Body + very good kit lenses + external flash in a bundle.

However, that is coming from a Pentax fanboy (happy and proud user of a K100D)

In all honesty, the SLR market is one where you can't go wrong. Any choice will be a very good one, with some better than others. Before listening to all the bable about lenses, keep in mind that a huge percentage of dSLR owners NEVER upgrade the kit lenses, specially true for the entry level models. We see it at the children's school, several people with XTs, XTis, D40, D60s, E520s, A200s, *ist and 2 other K100Ds still with kit lenses.... I would say go to a photo store and pick the one that feel the better. The kit lenses of Olympus and Pentax are considered better than Canon's, Nikon's and Sony's. He also needs to define how bad live view is needed, and if size is important

If I was buying again, K200D first, Olympus E520 second (4:3 ratio only though) While the XSi might be a better camera, its inferior kits lens denies the advantage. You could argue you can upgrade the lenses, but if you are willing to spend a fortune in lenses, why get an entry level model? Go a step futher (D90, K10D) or even 2 steps further (D300, K20D, 50D, A700)



Alex

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: alexruiz
Pentax K2000.
Body + very good kit lenses + external flash in a bundle.

However, that is coming from a Pentax fanboy (happy and proud user of a K100D)

In all honesty, the SLR market is one where you can't go wrong. Any choice will be a very good one, with some better than others. Before listening to all the bable about lenses, keep in mind that a huge percentage of dSLR owners NEVER upgrade the kit lenses, specially true for the entry level models. We see it at the children's school, several people with XTs, XTis, D40, D60s, E520s, A200s, *ist and 2 other K100Ds still with kit lenses.... I would say go to a photo store and pick the one that feel the better. The kit lenses of Olympus and Pentax are considered better than Canon's, Nikon's and Sony's. He also needs to define how bad live view is needed, and if size is important

If I was buying again, K200D first, Olympus E520 second (4:3 ratio only though) While the XSi might be a better camera, its inferior kits lens denies the advantage. You could argue you can upgrade the lenses, but if you are willing to spend a fortune in lenses, why get an entry level model? Go a step futher (D90, K10D) or even 2 steps further (D300, K20D, 50D, A700)

Alex

The K2000D bundle does not represent a very good value at this point in time. The external flash is nice, but lower-powered than most and also a fixed-position unit.

Also, why recommend the discontinued K10D? It's in no way in the same class as the Nikon D90. The K20D is Pentax's best offering there, and makes it's point mainly by value.

As far as kit lenses go, Pentax no longer has the advantage there. Canikon have upgraded their recent kit offerings considerably.