Looking for a good chef's knife or a knife set

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Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
1,780
126
I'm going to start off by saying you need to sharpen these blades yearly at a minimum. You should work on the edge every other use or after each use. I prefer wood or plastic cutting boards...

This Wustof Santoku is my go-to knife for slicing vegetables:
http://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-4183-7...=wustof+knives

For weight and balance, I like Messermeister. I actually had a few of these stolen from me years back and haven't had the extra cash to replace them, but they're on my list.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=...=messermeister

Victorinox Chef's Knifes cost $30-40. America's Test Kitchen rated them best buys in knives. This was based on feel, balance, and how well they hold an edge.
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-405...ctorinox+knife
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,378
14,784
146
I use these daily in my professional kitchen.
Incredible value, super light & balanced. Sharp as the devil himself.
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/tojiro-dp/deluxe-starter-knife-set-p117061
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojiro3pcset.html

The Tojiro DP knives are what I was going to recommend as well:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojirodpseries.html

Shun, while good knives, are somewhat overpriced...you're paying a hefty premium for the name.

We puchased a 3-pc. gift set of the Tojiro knives last fall for a good friend. They're extremely well made of excellent quality steel. No, the DP set isn't damascus steel nor is it flashy...but it's very good cutlery at an affordable price.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
Tojiro DP is a great line. VG-10 stainless steel, 60 Rockwell hardness on the C scale will have good edge retention, at a great price. You should still think about a sharpening solution though.

I went with the Edge Pro Apex sharpening system to help get consistent bevel angles. I bought Shapton sharpening stones in 220, 500, 2K, 4k and 8K grits to get a mirror polished sharp edge. Well worth it.
 

notposting

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2005
3,499
34
91
I would be on the side of those who think a knife set is silly. Buy the blades as you need them and the best quality/price that fits you.

On the cheap side, the Victorinox Fibrox 8" is probably the easy winner. On sale at Amazon right now. Fwiw, I've been using some hokey Farberware Pro 8" for years, and while the blade doesn't hold an edge too great, I just give it a quick sharpen now and then with the Accusharp and it's fine.

Most knife sets give you "all the knives" but you get too many compromised versions. Get your chef knife and a paring knife (and honestly, you can probably buy a few, we have one really sharp rather springy blade one, and then three that are more rigid). After that, well, when you see a need for a boning knife, buy one (I have the Victorinox for that, it's nice). Big carving knife? You'll know when you need one.

If the current set has any good blades, keep em! Kept the bread knife from our set we had as it was nice and relatively crumb free. One of the paring/utility knives is from it as well.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
8,173
3,607
136
I would call myself an intermediate chef. I cook a lot of my meals myself and do a lot of vegetable chopping and meat cutting. My first real knife was a Henckel's International 8-inch Chef Knife ($52 on Amazon). Henckel's International is the entry-level brand of Henckels. I've since added a 4-inch Henckel's pairing knife, a Henckel's International bread knife, and a 3-piece Henckel's International paring knife set. Between these knifes I can basically cut anything I need.

If I had more money I would go with a higher level Henckel's kife or maybe Wusthoff brand knifes.

EDIT - and if you just had to get one knife, get a chef's knife or a santoku knife. Personally I prefer a chef's knife, but this just comes down to what you prefer. Santoku and Chef's knife are basically the same.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
And I was about to buy a set of two Chef knives for about $20 at Sam's Club. :$
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
And I was about to buy a set of two Chef knives for about $20 at Sam's Club. :$

Which may be just fine. I use both high end Henckels and cheap costco blades at work every day. For some jobs the cheap blades are better because they're so light. They're also easy to sharpen.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
Fancy knife is no replacement for the knowledge of how to use and maintain any garden variety kitchen knife.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
I would have said one of these: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleaver2.html

But, wow, the dollar ain't what it used to be! I'm pretty sure I didn't even pay $40, with shipping, maybe 3 years ago. Still, that $125 one is probably not a good choice. I would not even want a VG10 knife, for fear of chipping too often.

Then again, there's always the U.S. made one half the Mexican restaurants seem to use:
http://www.amazon.com/Dexter-Russell.../dp/B00004RFR9

But, for something more familiar, the stamped Forschner is hard to beat.

It will also allow you to get a feel for using and sharpening the knife, and leave budget for a sharpening stone and/or cutting board. Not trusting your knife edge to a random stranger with a grinding belt or wheel will make more of a difference than paying more for a knife, and getting a decent edge isn't that difficult to do with a soft steel blade.
 

Chocu1a

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2009
1,386
79
91
Fancy knife is no replacement for the knowledge of how to use and maintain any garden variety kitchen knife.

I agree. At home, I have a set of Shun Pro knives. Very sharp, easy to keep sharp, & beautiful to look at.
At work, I use a mix of Wustoff Grand Prix & Tojiro DP.
The Wustoff are the heavy workhorse blades, using a 12" chef's for splitting chicken, lobster shells, you know, heavy work. I also use a Wustoff 12" slicer for carving Prime Rib. It is rigid & keeps an edge for days.
For all other prep work I use the Tojiro. 9" Chef's & 7" santoku for slicing meats, dicing veggies, & the like. Same with paring & utility work.I have a Henkels 4 star Boning knife, just because it was a gift. Sharp & reliable.



For fish fabrication, I use a Tojiro 10" Yanagiba(sushi knife). So sharp you could cut your finger off & not notice it.



We have a knife rack at work with lots of cheap blades: Forschner, Dexter Russel, some cheap Chinese blades, & I can keep these as sharp as my personal knives. The only draw back to the cheaper knives is they don't HOLD the edge as long.
 
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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
I just bought a shun 10th anniversary classic 8". Its beautiful and awesome. Just like my old Shun before the tip was broken by an accidental drop.
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
I have a cheap knife. (kitchenaid set that's discontinued) It doesn't hold its edge well. Probably has to do with how I treat it like crap. I don't have a sharpening stone, but I do have a steel. It's been 6 months since I last sharpened, and it's starting to get dull. I'll probably wait another 6 months for Sur La Table to have a free knife sharpening in store promotion.

I'm waiting until after we move before buying a nice knife. Currently I'm living with a college student mentality so that the move is easier. All fancy knives are fancy and good. As mentioned in this thread, harder steels might hold its edge a little better, but will be harder to sharpen.

I think the most important thing is feel of the knife in your hand. Go to your local Sur La Table or Williams & Sonoma and handle the knives to see how they feel. Cut some onions, celery, and tomatoes in store.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
1,780
126
I have a cheap knife. (kitchenaid set that's discontinued) It doesn't hold its edge well. Probably has to do with how I treat it like crap. I don't have a sharpening stone, but I do have a steel. It's been 6 months since I last sharpened, and it's starting to get dull. I'll probably wait another 6 months for Sur La Table to have a free knife sharpening in store promotion.

I'm waiting until after we move before buying a nice knife. Currently I'm living with a college student mentality so that the move is easier. All fancy knives are fancy and good. As mentioned in this thread, harder steels might hold its edge a little better, but will be harder to sharpen.

I think the most important thing is feel of the knife in your hand. Go to your local Sur La Table or Williams & Sonoma and handle the knives to see how they feel. Cut some onions, celery, and tomatoes in store.
Nothing wrong with holding out until you are ready. There's nothing wrong with using cheaper knives if they cut. The real key is many of the cheaper knives are made with low-grade steel. To make up for this, they put a micro-seraded edge that can't really be sharpened. These throw-away knives will last a few years, but get duller and duller.

Having said that, seraded knives are important for cutting things like tomatoes and bread. Other than that, a chef's knife and paring knife are really all you need. If you want to buy a quality knife set, a lot of times you can buy a chef's knife and get a free paring knife for around $100-125 in many brands.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
32,106
32,662
146
My advice OP,

Magnus is a pro. Not a foodie or google fu practioner. he has probably done more knife work then any 3 people here combined. He won't steer you wrong. Not to say others input is invalid. But if I am foraying into something for the first time, I tend to defer to experts, as they have extensive experience in the field.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
For knives, here is what I'm going to tell you.

Steel is king in the knife world.

Most of what you find is going to be crap. Here is the *list* of knife steels and associated brands that use those typically.

440A steel
This is the cheapest steel that is used in kitchen knives. It has great corrosion resistance but horrible edge qualities related to edge retention and sharpness. Most of the kitchen knives made from this level of steel for kitchen use tends to be serrated. Serrated knives tend to saw things rather than cut them which makes them able to look like they are "cutting" better than they really are. Knives made from this tend to be very cheap indeed in cost to make as the steel is very soft to work with. Beware of overpriced knives claiming miracle performance with this blade steel. Cutco, Miracle Knives, and other as seen on TV knives tend to use this steel or the equivalent. Some charge ridiculous prices. This is basically the same knife steel from those $20 box sets from your local major retail store. Meaning the knives should only cost about $1-$3 per knife. Anything more is paying way too much. That is not to say knives made from this steel are useful for certain applications and jobs. They certainly are. To think they are the good for everything or worth more than a few bucks a knife is bad.

440B or 8Cr13Mov or AUS-8
Slightly better than 440A and equivalent steels. This has more carbon so the steel is harder. Harder steel keeps a better edge and can get sharper. It's also harder to work with and costs more because of that. Still 440B steels aren't that difficult to work with. Thus most of the knives here are still going to be very cheap. Many of them are going to be serrated as well like the previous category. Still, there are some decently made knives that are even used in professional kitchens made from this level of steel. Lower end Victronix series is made from this level of steel. Just beware that you'll have to hone the steel with a honing rod before every use of the knife if you want a good edge while using the knife. This is because on a non-serrated edge with this knife, it will dull pretty quickly. Corrosion resistance is very good and most knives made from this steel are very dishwasher safe. Still, putting any knife in the dishwasher will dull it unless it is serrrated. Average price for kitchen knives range from $5-$15 made from this steel.

440C or or 9Cr13mov or AUS-10 or Sandvik 12C27
Basic good knife stainless steel. This isn't the best at edge retention or edge sharpness, but it is certainly not the worst. This steel can take a pretty good near razor edge. It just loses that edge so requires more work to keep sharp. The corrosion resistance is pretty good and the knives made with this are a bit more "dishwaster" safe than higher end knives. Brands that tend to use this steel are like Chicago cutlery, lower grade henckles, lower grade wustoffs, faberware, and others. This is a very common kitchen knife steel level. You average *good* home kitchen knives that you see recommended most of the time are knives made from this level. Knives made from this steel are affordable with good overall performance. However, beware of overpaying though for knives made from this steel. This is still a *cheap* steel and most knives made with this should not be all that expensive. Average price per knife made from these steels should be $10-$20 a knife.

X45CrMo14 or x55CrMo14 or GF30
These are the start of the higher end knife steels. Better at edge retention and ability to get very sharp. Not much lost in corrosion resistance either. The higher end wustoffs, henckles, victronix, F.Dicks, globals, and others tend to use this steel for kitchen knives. I personally have a set of Saber brand knives from a set that use this steel. Average price for these can range from $20-$80 a knife. Paying more than that is paying too much. I bought this set from costco years back. It has run on sale as low as $159 before. Saber knives. Nice set for the price.

VG-10 or 154CM or CPM 154 or ATS-34
This is the japanese common high end luxury knife steel. It has even better edge retention and can get razor sharp. It is good on corrosion resistance, but can chip a bit easier since it tends to be harder when tempered than the previous sets of steels. Which makes it also harder to sharpen. Knives made from this steel tend to be a bit pricier as well since the steel is harder to work with. There are many japanese knives that use this steel as well as a few european companies have similar steels. Because of the hardness and difficulty ramps up to work with steels in this category, the price tends to jump up. Especially when not everything in this steel range comes from a factory and is hand made instead. Which the later will increase the price by a lot. So factory made knife pricing in this steel range go from $30 a knife to $200 a knife on average. The price depends on how it was made, and other things for even factory made knives. Hand-made can basically go to sky is the limit range. Depending upon what is done. It is really hard to put a price range on hand made knives.

Upper Echelons
There are even harder stainless steels and they don't really have categories like the previous steels. It is very hard to lump them together. Some of the are SG2, Cowry-X, ZDP-189, higher end CPM stuff (CPM lower end is typically used in folding knives and not kitchen knives). Tool steels like D2 and others. There are many esoteric knife steel "recipes" out there. Some of them very similar to others but slightly different. Their formulas in many cases fiercely guarded. Kitchen knives made from these steels are very expensive indeed. There are very few "factory" knives except for the extreme upper ends. Like Shun's upper end lines. Knives in this range for factory pricing start at $100 a knife if you are lucky. Knives from these steels tend to be very hard steels. Which means hard to work with as well. They keep edges for a very long time with little honing and rarely need to be sharpened. Knives of these steels also can chip easier because they are very hard, so are used for cutting softer materials.


So that is a general easy to look at least of knife steel categories and general common knife brands with general pricing. It's not an exhaustive list by any means. There is a ton of information on this subject out there. Still if I was going to recommend a new person shopping with a modest budget for some decent kitchen knives, here is what I would suggest.

That saber set is darn good, but may not be for everyone. It has a lot of knives the average person may never need or use. Even the home kitchen cooking enthusiast. A good set I say would consist of the following knives:

Chef knife of 6" to 10" in length. The chef knife tends to be the main go to knife for people. Some like to go with a santoku knife instead of a chef knife. As they have similar "roles" in how they are used to cut up big projects over a lengthy period of time. You want a knife comfortable, with a decent size cutting surface, and easy to control.

Paring knife. This is your 2" to 4" paring knife. I personally have several 3" paring knives. These are going to be used often as their small size allows for easy manuevering with the knife. You may want a few of these as you'll find you get one dirty cutting one thing for a meal, and want a second clean one for another part of the meal without worrying about constant washing to prevent cross contamination.

Those two are the main two knife types anyone really needs. They can do basically everything. Although there are certain knives suited to specialty tasks which make those tasks easier to do that with either a chef or paring knife. It all depends on what you commonly do in the kitchen. If you hack up whole chickens often then a decent boning knife would help make job easier. If you slice whole fish up often, then a good filleting knife would be handy. If you chop bones up often, a cleaver does that job great. Chopping lots of hard veggies? Veggie cleaver or santoku is great for that. It really just depends on all that you cook and what you do the most often.

So with that in mind what would currently recommend? Something another poster listed. The basic VG-10 Tojiro set. I prefer to stick with VG-10 for my chef and paring knife.

Tojiro VG-10 chef and paring 2 piece set for $100

Can always get a second or third paring knife later if needed. Other knives you may need to research to get the proper knife and steel for the application. For a cleaver the "cheaper" steels are much better as they are softer and less prone to chipping/breaking when you are trying to slam the blade through bone or other hard materials. A fillet knife usually needs a very malleable steel which isn't exactly what VG-10 is known for as an example.

So why do I list the japanese knives as the recommended starter higher end knife to buy? Mainly because of the differences between japanese and european designs. European designed knives tend to be heavier in the hand. That gives them more weight to help make some tasks easier, but can add to fatigue over extended use. Japanese designs tend to be lighter and easier to use.

That being said, many of the japanese styles use thinner stock to make the knives lighter. Still, one shouldn't be doing things with a high end knife like trying to bend it in half or see how flexible it is. That is a good way to ruin the knife. Use the knife how it is meant to be used. Which is the following.

1) Quick hone before every use. A sharpening steel gone over the edge before use, even on very high end knives, keeps the edge going longer.
2) Don't use a knife for something it isn't intended to be used for. Don't try chopping knuckle bones apart with a fillet knife. You won't get anywhere with it and may break the knife.
3) Wipe the knife clean after every use. Although kitchen knives are stainless steels, they aren't stain proof. They are corrosion resistant to a point. So wipe them off right away when done with the knife. Make sure it is dry and then put it away. Don't leave good knives laying about or in the sink. That can ruin the knife and can make for a dangerous situation in a household. This last bit is something I argue with my wife on constantly. She has a bad habit of not putting my knives up right away.
4) Good knives can be a good lifetime investment. They will certainly out live you if they are taken care of properly. The adage cry once, buy once is certainly not a bad one when applied to good knives. You buy a good kitchen knife and it will last the rest of your life if maintained right.
 
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