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blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
BallaTheFeared said:
Its been tested a lot, no difference.


OP get a 64GB ssd instead of 128, that should free up enough funds. Or drop the SSD until more funds come.
Click to expand...

Citation?

64GB is HORRIBLE bang for the buck, you usually wind up paying $1/GB. At least with 128GB you can pay much less per GB. 256GB is the current sweet spot though.
 
blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
BallaTheFeared said:
Search ssd vs HDD fps.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-rift-ssd,3062-13.html


Budget is fixed either go with less capacity, drop the ssd and go with a k chip or save it and pick up the ssd later.

Also: Steam mover
Click to expand...

My post specifically said minimum fps, not average. Your citation is to a page talking about average fps. Furthermore, on the next page of that article, they admit that if you are doing anything other than gaming such as having an antivirus scan kick in in the background, you will feel the choppiness in gameplay. And they also note that SSDs benefit a lot more than just games--exactly as I said.
 
Vesku

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
28
86
Or can go for the SSD and add in larger HDD storage later.

My attempt at getting a GTX 660 within that budget:

PCPartPicker part list

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Silverstone AR02 56.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($27.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Pro4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($68.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($114.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($179.99 @ NCIX US)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N150PCe 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec One ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ Microcenter)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - OEM (64-bit) ($94.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $949.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-04 22:56 EST-0500)
 
B

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
blastingcap said:
My post specifically said minimum fps, not average. Your citation is to a page talking about average fps. Furthermore, on the next page of that article, they admit that if you are doing anything other than gaming such as having an antivirus scan kick in in the background, you will feel the choppiness in gameplay. And they also note that SSDs benefit a lot more than just games--exactly as I said.
Click to expand...

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/expl...2-is-the-ssd-smoother-than-the-hdd-in-gaming/

I'm aware of the benefits outside gaming.

I'm not saying don't get an SSD, I'm saying the CPU and GPU are both more important and an SSD should not come at the cost to either.

Also SSD prices look awful right now.
 
Yuriman

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
His nephew probably doesn't need a -K model processor, and therefore he doesn't need a Z87 chipset. An i5 + 660 fits nicely within a $950 budget.

My thoughts:

How about getting him a refurb 256GB SSD and add a large mechanical drive later? Newegg has a refurb Agility 4 for about $140 right now, and that might be big enough for now.

A name-brand 400-450w PSU is plenty for this kind of system if there won't be any overclocking going on. 500w if you think he might later on go with a much higher end card.

The stock cooler will be fine.

If it were for me, I'd go with an ASRock mini-ITX board (B85 probably) in something like a Coolermaster 130.
 
N

nwo

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2005
2,309
0
71
GamingDaemon said:
So I need to cut out about $40 if I go with this video card and these storage devices:

Video Card $160: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130840

Samsung 840 128 GB SSD $120 ($50 off)

WD 1TB drive $60 ($10 off)

I was going with the Intel i5-4570 $200.

Maybe I should go with an i3-4330 for $140 and save the $40 there. It has 4MB of L3 cache versus the 6MB cache of the i5. But it runs at 3.5GHz instead of the i5's 3.2GHz.
Click to expand...
$120 bucks for a 128GB SSD? You shouldn't be paying a penny more than $90-100 even for a high end SSD. There were a couple of deals for 128GB SSDs @ $60-70 either after MIR or after coupon code. Even without either of them, you will still have plenty of models to choose from for under $100.

Video card link doesn't work

$60 for a 1TB HDD is a decent price

Do not skimp on CPU, stick with the 4570 and go for the k version if possible.
 
blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
BallaTheFeared said:
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/expl...2-is-the-ssd-smoother-than-the-hdd-in-gaming/

I'm aware of the benefits outside gaming.

I'm not saying don't get an SSD, I'm saying the CPU and GPU are both more important and an SSD should not come at the cost to either.

Also SSD prices look awful right now.
Click to expand...

The conclusion to that link isn't 100%.

I'm not saying that video cards don't matter, but TF2? Civ V? TF2 is CPU bottlenecked, Civ V can run at 24 fps and it would still play fine (and in fact with a GTX 650 non-Ti it runs way faster than that at 1080p). If OP said he's looking to run BF4, I would say CPU and GPU (and at least 8GB RAM) are top priorities and if means losing SSD, case, and pretty much everything else, then so be it.

Video card prices are even worse than SSD prices right now.

I agree with above poster nwo that you can find a decent 120-128GB SSD for about $80 after rebate, give or take $20 depending on various promos and such.
 
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GamingDaemon

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
So with $40 to cut in order to make budget I'm trying to figure out what to cut or go lower on. Note: the wireless adapter is needed.


I am a Gigabyte mobo fanboy, I guess, but that is one area I could decrease the price by going with the BIOSTAR Hi-Fi Z87X 3D. That always seemed like a cheap manufacturer, but this board has gotten some good reviews.

I guess we could debate once more the need for the 128GB SSD, but wow, it's a great deal at $50 off.

What do folks think?

EDIT: Looks like you guys added some more posts...which is strange because I could not get in (it kept saying it was down for maintenance?) I'll try to catch up with the new posts that have been added.
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I'd get the Gigabyte motherboard over Biostar for many reasons. Biostar doesn't have much of a good reputation...

If you can afford the SSD, i'd get one. If you can't then, well it's certainly a good upgrade down the road. It's just hard to say how it fits in your total system budget and what components you're prioritizing. It's really up to you, everyone knows SSDs are great but, again, depends on priorities. Personally I couldn't go without one, but that's me. If the SSD edges you over-budget, then maybe you can go without it.
 
K

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,016
933
136
Another money saver: non K CPU do not require the expense of Z87 and certainly not a $160 mobo, IMO. Even if you want to stick with 4 DIMM slots, you can buy a Gigabyte B85 for around half of that. i5-4570 is never going to use more than 77W, if even that; the days of the P4 are long gone. Then since you are set on an SSD, I'd save ~$70 by buying the Samsung 840 EVO vs the Pro..

There was another thread here about the mystery of the disappearance of 650 Ti Boost. That was actual that rare exception, an good value Nvidia budget card, but seems to have been discontinued.

Still, with those saving you should be able to stretch to a GTX 660.

EDIT: of course I don't see the $50 off the 840 Pro. Maybe because it's expired or only shows up for US viewers. If there's only $20 difference, the Pro makes more sense.
 
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S

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
As far as a budget case for this build goes, give a look at the Rosewill Line-M. I paid $62 shipped for this thing and the cooling is top notch out of the box.

My 770 which has a open air Zotac Amp! cooler doesn't push even 70cel and my i5 with its stock cooler won't touch pass 69cel while i game.Personally i am impressed and i have used much more expensive cases in the past that haven't cooled as well as this thing for the money i paid.:thumbsup:
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
I have a HD 7770 and I can play everything at 1080p, med to high settings. The gtx 650 is weaker than that, so I would not really recommend it overall, although it would handle the games you mention. I would try to find a gtx 660 or at least a gtx 650 Ti at the minimum.

I also would sacrifice the ssd if it meant getting a better video card. I know some will strongly disagree, but for a machine primarily for gaming, a decent video card is essential. As others also said, I would not move down to the i3.

Edit: I also am curious as to why you are ruling out AMD gpus. If you could get a HD7790 or HD7850 in your price range, they would also fill the bill. All you lose is physX, which is not a game changer to me, but to some it may be. A couple of months ago, there were some absolutely fantastic deals on low/mid range AMD cards, but I think they have dried up now.
 
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Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
frozentundra123456 said:
I have a HD 7770 and I can play everything at 1080p, med to high settings. The gtx 650 is weaker than that, so I would not really recommend it overall, although it would handle the games you mention. I would try to find a gtx 660 or at least a gtx 650 Ti at the minimum.

I also would sacrifice the ssd if it meant getting a better video card. I know some will strongly disagree, but for a machine primarily for gaming, a decent video card is essential. As others also said, I would not move down to the i3.

Edit: I also am curious as to why you are ruling out AMD gpus. If you could get a HD7790 or HD7850 in your price range, they would also fill the bill. All you lose is physX, which is not a game changer to me, but to some it may be. A couple of months ago, there were some absolutely fantastic deals on low/mid range AMD cards, but I think they have dried up now.
Click to expand...

You answerede your own question...that, subpar tesselation and drivers does it for me..I guess the OP has it the same way.
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Lonbjerg said:
You answerede your own question...that, subpar tesselation and drivers does it for me..I guess the OP has it the same way.
Click to expand...

Since the op seems to have already decided to go with nVidia, I don't really want to get into the AMD driver issue, but I would say that I have used an AMD card for more than a year and have only had issues with one game, and I don't know if that was a driver issue. OTOH, I would say overall, I did prefer the nVidia software and updating experience. I was just curious as to why the op had rule out AMD, as they do have some good values, especially in the price range he is looking at.
 
Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
frozentundra123456 said:
Since the op seems to have already decided to go with nVidia, I don't really want to get into the AMD driver issue, but I would say that I have used an AMD card for more than a year and have only had issues with one game, and I don't know if that was a driver issue. OTOH, I would say overall, I did prefer the nVidia software and updating experience. I was just curious as to why the op had rule out AMD, as they do have some good values, especially in the price range he is looking at.
Click to expand...

Price is far from everything...
 
blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
GamingDaemon said:
So with $40 to cut in order to make budget I'm trying to figure out what to cut or go lower on. Note: the wireless adapter is needed.


I am a Gigabyte mobo fanboy, I guess, but that is one area I could decrease the price by going with the BIOSTAR Hi-Fi Z87X 3D. That always seemed like a cheap manufacturer, but this board has gotten some good reviews.

I guess we could debate once more the need for the 128GB SSD, but wow, it's a great deal at $50 off.

What do folks think?

EDIT: Looks like you guys added some more posts...which is strange because I could not get in (it kept saying it was down for maintenance?) I'll try to catch up with the new posts that have been added.
Click to expand...

Get a cheaper case, that is a ripoff for $100. Something like a Corsair 200R goes on sale for as low as $30 after rebate quite often, 300R is better to work with and goes on sale for $50 often. Even if you absolutely can't wait for sale, you can still find stuff like this good case for $50 no rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146081

Get this PSU, it's very solid and for $20 it's a steal: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026 It's actually strong enough to power something as high as a GTX 780 Ti, though it'd be near 90% load if CPU and GPU peaked at the same time. Anyway, the point is that this $20 PSU is way more than enough for the system you're contemplating and is known to be reliable and well-built.

That SSD is overpriced for what it is, you can get something like a Kingston 128GB for $80 after rebate all the time. Don't bother paying for more speed, all modern SSDs are so fast that you will not be able to tell the difference between them. Do pay for reliability, Intel/Crucial/Samsung and Plextor are most reliable. Sandisk, Toshiba, Corsair Neutron, Kingston are also good choices, and their latest-generation SSDs should be pretty much as reliable as the I/C/S/P group.

$145 for a video card that strong, to play TF2/ Civ V is not too wise imho. Here is a GTX 650 (equal to a HD7750, can be overclocked to near-7770 speeds) for $60 AR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814134162

Stock vs stock, that $145 card you linked to (GTX 650 Ti) is 36% faster than the $60 GTX 650 I linked to (see the 1920x1200 column) but costs 142% more. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_650_Ti_Direct_Cu_II/28.html

Civ V is not a fast-twitch game and GTX 650 easily goes above 40 fps for that. As for TF2, GTX 650 is way more than enough as well. I can't find reviews testing the GTX 650 with TF2, but a GTX 650 is in the neighborhood of a HD5770, and probably slightly faster. TF2 is CPU-bottlenecked as you can see, so that a HD5770 gets 88fps at 1920x1200 along with a bunch of other cards (see http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/22.html). Then again TF2 has gotten slightly more complex since that date, so let's just say for sake of argument that a a stock GTX 650 will get the same framerate, about 88fps 1920x1200. At 1080p with overclocking you're looking at ~120fps on a GTX 650 for TF2, if the CPU doesn't bottleneck you first.

When your nephew moves past TF2 and Civ V later, say a year from now, you can resell the GTX 650 for, say, $30-35. Add to that the $85 + interest you saved and advances in GPU tech and by this time next year you can probably buy the equivalent of a GTX 760 for ~$120. A year from now, would you rather have a new GTX 760 or a used GTX 650 Ti? Just some food for thought. Because GPUs depreciate so quickly, it's generally not a good idea to drastically overbuy what you need. (Would I do this for my own build? Of course not. But I'm also building PCs with my own money, and I play stuff WAY more demanding than TF2 and Civ V at 1080p. I'm at 5760x1080.)

KompuKare said:
Another money saver: non K CPU do not require the expense of Z87 and certainly not a $160 mobo, IMO. Even if you want to stick with 4 DIMM slots, you can buy a Gigabyte B85 for around half of that. i5-4570 is never going to use more than 77W, if even that; the days of the P4 are long gone.
Click to expand...

I totally agree!
 
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N

nwo

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2005
2,309
0
71
Basically what blasting cap said, with some minor changes. You are overpaying for the case & PSU. That Corsair PSU is excellent for your build and it is a steal at $20 after MIR. Notably, Corsair mailed me my rebate gift card quicker than 90% of others, without paying extra $ for the rush option.

I would use the $$ you save on PSU & case to get a faster video card. Let's face it, you're not going to be playing those games forever. When you decide to try out something new, you will probably regret not investing $$ into a better video card because you will be stuck playing at all low settings with choppy fps.

When it comes to the case, I would definitely not pay more than $50 for a build like yours. There are plenty of decent cases you can purchase for around $30-40 after MIR. Look for one that comes with 2-3 fans, although it won't be necessary to have top notch airflow for your build, the fans alone are worth around 10 bucks.
 
el etro

el etro

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,581
14
81
blastingcap said:
My post specifically said minimum fps, not average. Your citation is to a page talking about average fps. Furthermore, on the next page of that article, they admit that if you are doing anything other than gaming such as having an antivirus scan kick in in the background, you will feel the choppiness in gameplay. And they also note that SSDs benefit a lot more than just games--exactly as I said.
Click to expand...

This is more interesting to hardcore gamers beacause is more effective on decrease load-times. Can help in intense action games. Most time, for anything that can't be loaded on RAM and on Video Memory the storage works like a Buffer.
 
GamingDaemon

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
frozentundra123456 said:
I have a HD 7770 and I can play everything at 1080p, med to high settings. The gtx 650 is weaker than that, so I would not really recommend it overall, although it would handle the games you mention. I would try to find a gtx 660 or at least a gtx 650 Ti at the minimum.

I also would sacrifice the ssd if it meant getting a better video card. I know some will strongly disagree, but for a machine primarily for gaming, a decent video card is essential. As others also said, I would not move down to the i3.

Edit: I also am curious as to why you are ruling out AMD gpus. If you could get a HD7790 or HD7850 in your price range, they would also fill the bill. All you lose is physX, which is not a game changer to me, but to some it may be. A couple of months ago, there were some absolutely fantastic deals on low/mid range AMD cards, but I think they have dried up now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm an nVidia fanboy as well, and the times I have used AMD/ATI cards over the years, I've regretted it. For whatever reason, nVidia cards generally feel complete, tighter, and more smooth than any AMD card I've ever tried.
 
GamingDaemon

GamingDaemon

Senior member
Apr 28, 2006
474
7
76
One of the other things I was thinking about was future-proofing his build, which is why I was going with the Z87 mobo, even though I didn't have a K processor. But when I replace the Z87 with a B85, and replaced the SSD with a less expensive one, I am just under $900. My only regret is that dropping down to the B85 class of motherboards prevents him from getting a K unlocked processor down the road. Thoughts?

As for the case, my nephew is only allowed to play video games during the weekend. He will need to carry the case from its storage location, set it up, play, and then when the weekend is over, put it back in storage. Hence the handle on the case. I'm a fan of Fractal design cases, but love Cooler Master products as well. If someone has another case with a handle they think is better/cheaper, let me know.

I also like Corsair PSUs too, but when I went over 500W, they were a little pricey. If everyone thinks a 430W PSU will power 8GB of memory, the i5-4570, and the GTX 650 ti video card, then I am happy to get the modular CORSAIR CX430M 430W PSU. I've built with it before and love it.

Finally, I kept the video card as-is because it may be more powerful than what's needed now, but it will grow with him for a couple of years, yes? Or should I get the GTX 660?

So here's where we are at now ($881):



I'm loving this thread!
 
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blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
OP since you changed the usage scenario, I would get nothing less than a GTX 760 (or GTX670) 2GB. That's the absolute lowest I would go if you want a card to last at least 2 years and can't or won't resell the card and upgrade it later. And even 2GB is a little low on RAM considering next-gen ports will probably need more VRAM than 2GB. If you can do it, though, I would go the GTX 650 and upgrade in a year route as it's way more cost effective.

The Corsair PSU is wildly popular for good reason and is way more than enough for your build, offering 32 amps on the 12V rail = 384W DC (about 480W "at the wall"). You could even swap in a GTX 780 instead of the other GPUs being talked about and still be fine.

I don't LAN-party so I'll let someone else suggest a LAN-suitable case.

If the system is being transported a lot, that's even more reason to go with an SSD for the most critical files like operating system files, as they can tolerate far higher impacts than hard drives.
 
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