Looking for a boxee replacement...

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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Thank you for ANY suggestions in advance... :)

I dig around online and it appears that EVERY media device out there is about streaming. Clearly that's where the industry is but that's an issue for me. I need something like my current Boxee which basically puts a GUI on my network folders on my computer and nothing else. I don't stream films or television shows. I only watch disks and digital video files that I store on my main desktop HDDs and external HDDs. So having netflix, hulu, vudu, etc etc etc or apps like Youtube is something I'll never ever use. Just not our viewing habits in our apartment.

Having said that (if anyone can help with suggestions) with no HDMI inputs on my 5.1 receiver, I need something with optical audio, HDMI output, ethernet for access to my home network, and ideally USB 3.0 for my external HDDs for better data read rates. I'd use my perfectly wonderful laptop with HDMI out, but again, not having HDMI inputs on my Yamaha HTR-6030 receiver, I can't get the 5.1 audio out of the laptop. (anyone know of an HDMI to HDMI/optical adapter? Does that even exist?)
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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With the Optical Audio requirement...
Thanks for the great recommendations! Unless I'm looking at the wrong devices, the ASUS Chromebox and RaspberryPi2 have no optical audio out. So, I guess with the Fire or even with the Chromebox, there won't be ANY live subtitle download support without installing Kodi and using a plugin, right?

The thing is that I DO have Kodi running on my Boxee right now but I seem to have an issue with some videos stuttering. The audio is slightly out of sync but barely detectable, but the video is choppy. It doesn't drop out, it just feels like there's a constant delayed stutter. The videos play fine on the PC, fine on the laptop that's connected to the network, fine even through the Boxee running just BoxeeHacks. So, why use Kodi at all? Just a better interface and also I find there are occassions (DTS films, less conventional codecs, very high bitrate HD video) when the Boxee struggles to play, scan forward and backward, and stay in sync.

So this stuttering is why I think maybe a new device is in order. I also have an AppleTV2 flashed with Kodi. But I think that has even less RAM than the Boxee.
 
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smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Thanks for the great recommendations! Unless I'm looking at the wrong devices, the ASUS Chromebox and RaspberryPi2 have no optical audio out. So, I guess with the Fire or even with the Chromebox, there won't be ANY live subtitle download support without installing Kodi and using a plugin, right?

The thing is that I DO have Kodi running on my Boxee right now but I seem to have an issue with some videos stuttering. The audio is slightly out of sync but barely detectable, but the video is choppy. It doesn't drop out, it just feels like there's a constant delayed stutter. The videos play fine on the PC, fine on the laptop that's connected to the network, fine even through the Boxee running just BoxeeHacks. So, why use Kodi at all? Just a better interface and also I find there are occassions (DTS films, less conventional codecs, very high bitrate HD video) when the Boxee struggles to play, scan forward and backward, and stay in sync.

So this stuttering is why I think maybe a new device is in order. I also have an AppleTV2 flashed with Kodi. But I think that has even less RAM than the Boxee.

Sorry, I probably should have been more clear. The "otherwise" pertained to the necessity of optical audio out. The Chromebox and RaspPi2 do not have it, that's why I recommend the FireTV. The RaspPi and the Chromebox are a better, pure Kodi experience but the FireTV is pretty strong and has the optical out.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
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Check out Zotac's ZBOXs. Here's one for $130 with has a dual core Intel Celeron 1.5ghz, Intel HD graphics, HDMI out, TOSLINK (optical audio), Gigabit LAN, five USB ports (2x USB 3.0). This particular model doesn't have WiFi but you;re using ethernet. Doesn't have an IR sensor but you can add your own through the front USB port.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...73073&cm_re=zotac_zbox-_-56-173-073-_-Product

It's a barebones system so you have to add your own RAM and hard drive. Just install OpenElec on it and you're good to go.

I have one of the older AMD Brazos ZBOXs and it's been pretty good little machine. Fan's a bit noisy but sounds like the newer machines are quieter.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Check out Zotac's ZBOXs. Here's one for $130 with has a dual core Intel Celeron 1.5ghz, Intel HD graphics, HDMI out, TOSLINK (optical audio), Gigabit LAN, five USB ports (2x USB 3.0). This particular model doesn't have WiFi but you;re using ethernet. Doesn't have an IR sensor but you can add your own through the front USB port.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...73073&cm_re=zotac_zbox-_-56-173-073-_-Product

It's a barebones system so you have to add your own RAM and hard drive. Just install OpenElec on it and you're good to go.

I have one of the older AMD Brazos ZBOXs and it's been pretty good little machine. Fan's a bit noisy but sounds like the newer machines are quieter.

Dang, that looks like a pretty good little box. OpenELEC only uses a few hundred MB so the smallest HDD and 1GB of RAM would probably work fine. If it will boot off of the SD Card then you don't even need the HDD.

I would add a FLIRC
http://www.amazon.com/FLIRC-FL-0902...?ie=UTF8&qid=1437233564&sr=8-1&keywords=FLIRC

And if a remote control is needed these work better than anything under $50.
http://www.amazon.com/DirecTV-RC65-...8&qid=1437233798&sr=8-1&keywords=directv+rc65

or

http://www.amazon.com/MCM-DirecTV-R...&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=directc+backlit+remote (BACKLIT)

I don't like cheaping out on the IR Receiver or the remote and these work better than anything I have found. The FLIRC is good enough that I plug mine into the the rear USB ports without LOS and they have never missed a button press yet.
 
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tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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Wow, can't wait to study these options. Thank you!
Incidentally, what would I use as a remote if I went the Raspberry Pi route?
 

baasf

Junior Member
Jul 19, 2015
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My replacement is the nVidia ShieldTV boxes (16GB version).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9289/the-nvidia-shield-android-tv-review

I have several emulators, browsers and Kodi running on the box and use Genesis and OrorTV addons for my show and occasionally some movie watching. Any app not directly supported has been sideloaded on the box.

Since my A/V setup also doesn't have HDMI I bought one of these J-Tech Digital HDMI to Composite/S-Video PAL/NTSC Converters, there's the cheaper ones that you can try, but I did have issues with the Portta devices.

I had put in some feature requests for YouTube app enhancements and the addition of social media sharing like the Boxee Box has. There's also the forumshttps://forums.geforce.com/default/board/159/shield-android-tv/.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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Incidentally, what would I use as a remote if I went the Raspberry Pi route?

With a FLIRC any IR remote ever could work. Even like one from an old DVD player. Another option is to use a app on a smart device.

Make sure to get a Pi 2, it has better performance for Openelec.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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Does anyone happen to know if there's any way in Kodi to just browse folders on my share drives on my computers or on a hard drive without having to "add folder"?
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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Does anyone happen to know if there's any way in Kodi to just browse folders on my share drives on my computers or on a hard drive without having to "add folder"?

There are basically three ways to use Kodi:

1. Most limited way where you just navigate to the file in a folder directory and play it. Unless the content is local (aka on THAT machine) you have to add that folder as a source but just the first time, it will remember it. Then you can even favorite that source to make it easy to get to from the home screen. This is the most basic way of using Kodi, like you would use VLC or any stand-alone media player. I play my 4K content this way, as my 4k library is so small I don't want it polluting my larger library (aka way #2).

2. Add in folders, with properly named media or correct nfo files, as sources to a larger library. In this mode Kodi scrapes the content info from either the nfo file or a website like thetvdb.com and then loads all of your similiar sources (say all the movie sources, or all the TV sources) into one single library. Once the library is built not only do you get things like cover art, fan art, and descriptions, but you also get to use the "TV Shows" or "Movies" part of the main menu that you might have seen. Once the library is built ALL your content is easily sorted by year, actor, genre, etc. Add in a MySQL setup and this library can be shared with multiple Kodi installations for a seamless whole house experience. This is the "primary" way to use Kodi.

3. Use external content sources. For example you can load all your content into a DLNA server and point Kodi to that server for a library effect without Kodi building that library. Or you can use the video plugins to stream content from other websites. Or you can tie Kodi to a PVR backend (or just a HDHomerun directly) and stream content from that backend. There are more options here I am missing, point is that Kodi isn't used to navigate to content or organize it, it is only used to consume content.



The magic of Boxee was that it took the "hard" option in Kodi (the second option) and tried to automate it some. Rather than you manually adding in folders of PERFECTLY named content according to Kodi's standards to a library, in Boxee you would point it to your media source and it would try to apply its own logic and find a way to automatically put that stuff into a library. There was no real concept of "library mangement" like you do in Mediaportal, or Plex or Kodi as the whole point was Boxee was supposed to figure it out for you. That was Boxee's edge, the reason for forking from XBMC (at first).

Boxee had other benefits (3D subtitle support before anyone, automatically downloading subtitles, etc.) but most of those either have been brought into main Kodi or turned into plug ins. What hasn't been brought into Kodi from Boxee was it's automagic "I will make your library for you!" scraper, and that is because people like me would FLIP OUT. That might be what you are missing.

The Boxee approach didn't allow for media hoarders like me (who are Kodi's biggest users/supporters) to have PERFECTLY managed libraries. I HATED Boxee back in the day because its logic was all over the place as it tried to figure everything out for me. In Kodi if I call something "Star Trek Enterprise S01E01" I know FOR A FACT that Kodi will see that as the first episode of the first season of the correct Star Trek, or if it doesn't at least it won't add something it isn't to my library. With Boxee it was a crap shoot which direction it would go. "First season of Voyager? Sure!" The inexactness is exactly why that Boxee vision of library mangement died with Boxee, hoarders like me don't need hand holding on the library management part.

Boxee was great for the low-end media downloader who had some large folder with tons of straight off the net with names like "Trek.ENT.101.SCENETAG.HD.avi" which Kodi didn't know what to do with. At least Boxee would TRY and guess what show and series that file is, while Kodi will wait around for you to give it the "S01E01" naming convention it prefers. The truth is that this Boxee functionality will NEVER be in Kodi, because now all of the Boxee "magic" is done on the content download side. Without pointing out exact softwares let me say that MOST of the major pieces of pirates software in 2015 not only FIND the episode of Enterprise you want to watch, but after download the software will rename "Trek.ENT.101.SCENETAG.HD.avi" into the convention Kodi wants before it even moves the file to the correct place in the server. Hell the software can even notify Kodi and automatically add the content to the library if you want. Point is, Boxee and its shotgun approach to file scraping is no longer needed. In 2015 the file should be named the right thing BEFORE the Kodi can even see it, and if there was a bad guess on the part of the renamer it happened in a place separate from the library so its easy to clean it up.

The replacement for Boxee IS Kodi PLUS time. The time element is when you either clean up your file names manually in a way Kodi likes (I have probably personally spent over 40 hours in my life just running TV shows through a renamer program for that reason), or you learn software (like Media Center Master) to do that and build a library for you. Or you put together a DLNA setup. Or you just favorite all your sources. Etc. If you just load in your folders and expect Kodi to do the rest like Boxee did you will be disappointed by the results. Kodi doesn't hold your hand like Boxee did.
 
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smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Does anyone happen to know if there's any way in Kodi to just browse folders on my share drives on my computers or on a hard drive without having to "add folder"?

That sounds like an order for a WDTV Live.

If you want nothing more out of a device than being able to browse and playback from shared folders then the WD TV Live is cheap and simple.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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There are basically three ways to use Kodi:
Several questions/thoughts here... but I should say first that I do GET how Kodi is meant to be used, what I'm looking for is a way that's less of Kodi trying to guess things. I'll explain why further down...

1. Most limited way...Unless the content is local (aka on THAT machine) you have to add that folder as a source but just the first time, it will remember it.
Well, the thing is that I'm running Kodi on a Boxee. So NO source is local, really. So I always have to add a folder which I don't want when I'm only accessing a file once that I won't be keeping or that is in a temporary folder.

a website like thetvdb.com...cover art, fan art, and descriptions...the "TV Shows" or "Movies" part of the main menu that you might have seen...
With respect to all of this stuff and what I mentioned in the beginning...
1. I have a rather intricate folder/subfolder naming system and file naming system and my content isn't just MOVIES and TV. I've got TV documentary programming and I don't want that getting mixed in with regular series.
2. any of the media metadata plugins, when I allow them to try tagging things, either find the wrong program or find the wrong version and wrong artwork. And with those documentary tv programs/series, it doesn't find anything or finds something with a similar name. These plugins also have no idea what any of my classic films are unless they're really obvious internationally recognised classics (Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, etc etc) None of my out of print stuff or quite frankly even some not so obscure classics are ever recognised so getting the plugin to try finding them is useless. I just don't have content that is on most mainstream tagging sites.

In the end, what I need is what I said, a GUI on my network folders usable on a device connected my TV and nothing else. I love Kodi but I guess the only way to use it is to add folders to it and always only use those. If I allow Kodi to get info I just get one jumbled TV section in the Kodi menu that is completely impractical when all my "tv" gets amassed together regardless of documentary, sports, or actual television series.
 
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smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Several questions/thoughts here... but I should say first that I do GET how Kodi is meant to be used, what I'm looking for is a way that's less of Kodi trying to guess things. I'll explain why further down...

Well, the thing is that I'm running Kodi on a Boxee. So NO source is local, really. So I always have to add a folder which I don't want when I'm only accessing a file once that I won't be keeping or that is in a temporary folder.

With respect to all of this stuff and what I mentioned in the beginning...
1. I have a rather intricate folder/subfolder naming system and file naming system and my content isn't just MOVIES and TV. I've got TV documentary programming and I don't want that getting mixed in with regular series.
2. any of the media metadata plugins, when I allow them to try tagging things, either find the wrong program or find the wrong version and wrong artwork. And with those documentary tv programs/series, it doesn't find anything or finds something with a similar name. These plugins also have no idea what any of my classic films are unless they're really obvious internationally recognised classics (Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, etc etc) None of my out of print stuff or quite frankly even some not so obscure classics are ever recognised so getting the plugin to try finding them is useless. I just don't have content that is on most mainstream tagging sites.

3. Use external content sources. For example you can load all your content into a DLNA server and point Kodi to that server for a library effect without Kodi building that library. Or you can use the video plugins to stream content from other websites. Or you can tie Kodi to a PVR backend (or just a HDHomerun directly) and stream content from that backend. There are more options here I am missing, point is that Kodi isn't used to navigate to content or organize it, it is only used to consume content.

In the end, what I need is what I said, a GUI on my network folders usable on a device connected my TV and nothing else. I love Kodi but I guess the only way to use it is to add folders to it and always only use those. If I allow Kodi to get info I just get one jumbled TV section in the Kodi menu that is completely impractical when all my "tv" gets amassed together regardless of documentary, sports, or actual television series.

I hear you and that's why I use a DLNA server. I don't like Kodi's default library organization so I use Mezzmo on my server and organize everything there. There's a few other people that do the same thing with Plex, Mezzmo, UMS, etc.

Otherwise, as I mentioned before, you're looking at something like a WDTV Live that will just let you browse shared folders.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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I hear you and that's why I use a DLNA server. I don't like Kodi's default library organization so I use Mezzmo...
I'm going to have to look into Mezzmo and DLNA because I don't quite understand either of them.
Otherwise, as I mentioned before, you're looking at something like a WDTV Live that will just let you browse shared folders.
Bizarre thing with browsing my shared folders from my Windows 7 desktop, I used to be able to actually SEE the Boxee and it's connected HDDs or flash drives from my network folder in Windows Explorer. One day that was gone. It was great because I could actually FTP content back and forth without disconnecting the drive. I don't know if I lost that when I installed Kodi or what, but any idea how to get feature of Windows back? All my drives and devices are discoverable.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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I'm going to have to look into Mezzmo and DLNA because I don't quite understand either of them.
Bizarre thing with browsing my shared folders from my Windows 7 desktop, I used to be able to actually SEE the Boxee and it's connected HDDs or flash drives from my network folder in Windows Explorer. One day that was gone. It was great because I could actually FTP content back and forth without disconnecting the drive. I don't know if I lost that when I installed Kodi or what, but any idea how to get feature of Windows back? All my drives and devices are discoverable.

Your browsing thing is probably a NetBIOS issue. Folders and devices come and go. They can always be found if you type their device name in the address bar but whether they show up in the browser is a crap shoot. That's something that has been driving me crazy for a couple of years and the most common bit of advice that I get is to just give up, NetBIOS is inconsistent and there is no real way to fix it.

As far as Mezzmo/DLNA/Plex/etc. Basically, it's just creating your library on a central device. The DLNA server builds the library and sends it to your devices on request. It's not without its shortcomings but I found it to be the best solution for a consistent experience across all of the devices in my home. The ability to customize my library with playlists and sorting as well as set parental controls is way beyond anything that Kodi is capable of. It's a little more intensive to get setup but once it's up and running, it is smooth as a whistle.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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Your browsing thing is probably a NetBIOS issue...
Shame, I love that feature in Explorer but my Boxee just doesn't show up anymore. Even my TV PVR shows up.
As far as Mezzmo/DLNA/Plex/etc. Basically, it's just creating your library on a central device...
Ok, but it's still trying to find artwork and won't let me keep the folder structure on my computer's media HDD, right?
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Shame, I love that feature in Explorer but my Boxee just doesn't show up anymore. Even my TV PVR shows up.
Ok, but it's still trying to find artwork and won't let me keep the folder structure on my computer's media HDD, right?

I can't speak for Plex, UMS, PS3 Media Server, Serviio or any of the other DLNA server applications, but Mezzmo can be set to just read your current folder structure. That would really be handicapping its capabilities, though. Have you considered a cheap HTPC that just runs Windows and just run VLC on it?
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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I can't speak for Plex, UMS, PS3 Media Server, Serviio or any of the other DLNA server applications, but Mezzmo can be set to just read your current folder structure. That would really be handicapping its capabilities, though. Have you considered a cheap HTPC that just runs Windows and just run VLC on it?
I don't really like VLC, much prefer MPC with K-Lite codec pack installed. What I don't get is this, and I think it has to do with not understanding things.. Is Boxee's software really the ONLY UI that's going to JUST read my folders? I guess I don't mind downloaded artwork if it's correct but seeing doc TV mixed with sports matches mixed with series is bizarre to me. I also keep my series separated by country. Can I add those custom options to a Kodi menu?
 
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smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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I don't really like VLC, much prefer MPS with K-Lite codec pack installed. What I don't get is this, and I think it has to do with not understanding things.. Is Boxee's software really the ONLY UI that's going to JUST read my folders? I guess I don't mind downloaded artwork if it's correct but seeing doc TV mixed with sports matches mixed with series is bizarre to me. I also keep my series separated by country. Can I add those custom options to a Kodi menu?

No, but you could with Mezzmo.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Oh, I though we had moved past the device and were looking for a way to browse folders.

I kind of lean back to the Amazon FireTV. Even without Kodi, you can just run any Media player that will pick up a DLNA source. MX Player comes to mind. It's what I use for playback on my Android tablets.

I am thinking the DLNA server thing might need a little more explanation.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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I am thinking the DLNA server thing might need a little more explanation.
Agreed. :) I'm looking up sites/videos online that explain thoroughly. I should really know this stuff. I've just been tapping into my shared Windows content folders on my home network.
 

tinpanalley

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
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I'm considering getting a raspberry pi and running kodi on it, it's pretty impressive how much development is going on for the raspberry pi version of kodi. My only two questions for anyone who might know are...

1. With the standard ethernet connection on the rp2, will it be able to handle 1080p HD video via ethernet from my desktop computer?

2. Will the rp2 be able to play EVERY video and audio codec? Can I install those? Or will this be handled by kodi?
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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I'm considering getting a raspberry pi and running kodi on it, it's pretty impressive how much development is going on for the raspberry pi version of kodi. My only two questions for anyone who might know are...

1. With the standard ethernet connection on the rp2, will it be able to handle 1080p HD video via ethernet from my desktop computer?

2. Will the rp2 be able to play EVERY video and audio codec? Can I install those? Or will this be handled by kodi?

1 - Yes. Wired or wireless it will be fine.
2 - No. EVERY is very broad. I doubt there is any device out there that could decode EVERY video and audio codec. The RasPi2 supports h264 hardware decoding out of the box. You can drop another $4 and get decoding for VC-1 and MPEG-2. Otherwise it will be up to Kodi and software decoding and I wouldn't guarantee that the SoC would be completely up to every task.