Looking for a 24-port gigabit router/gateway

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theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
Gigabit switches these days are bulletproof commodity items; they'll only differ on their management aspects.

I have a 16-port Trendnet managed Gigabit switch that I bought for $200 a while back, and while it's lacking in features compared to enterprise-grade gear, it's worked reliably and done what I've asked of it. I'm sure the same will apply to Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, or any of the lower-tier vendors.

In fact, come to think of it, the ONLY switches I've ever had reliability problems with have been enterprise switches.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,756
20,328
146
That's the plan. I have 16 devices that have ethernet ports and I hate wireless since it's unreliable and slower. I figured if I have 16 now I may as well get a 24-port switch since it provides room for more. Also, I can take advantage of these ethernet ports because the apartment is completely wired for gigabit ethernet.

My recommendations:

-don't get the modem/router combo.

-don't spend mucho bucks on a 24 port switch when another 16 port switch will give you more ports and some room to breath when a switch goes down.

-put up a little shelf system or two to put all your devices on :p
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
2960S and the SG200 are in completely different classes. Without knowing the exact environment, the SG200 may have cost more money since the cost of the hardware is not the TCO.

QFT...like saying on paper the 3850 looks like a waste of money (or even the 3750)

Keep in mind a lot of times an X port switch is usually not intended to give X ports of gigabit access.
 

kevnich2

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2004
2,465
8
76
My recommendations:

-don't get the modem/router combo.

-don't spend mucho bucks on a 24 port switch when another 16 port switch will give you more ports and some room to breath when a switch goes down.

-put up a little shelf system or two to put all your devices on :p

I would have to second this. Don't go with a modem,router combo. Use just a regular bridged modem, a separate quality wireless router and a separate switch or switches. If you already have a 16 port switch, why buy another 24 unless you just want a 24 port gigabit switch.

As far as switch recommendations, what are your requirements? Do you need management, vlans, L3 routing or unmanaged dumb 24 port switch that just gives you 24 gigabit wired ports? And what is your budget?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
I would have to second this. Don't go with a modem,router combo. Use just a regular bridged modem, a separate quality wireless router and a separate switch or switches. If you already have a 16 port switch, why buy another 24 unless you just want a 24 port gigabit switch.

As far as switch recommendations, what are your requirements? Do you need management, vlans, L3 routing or unmanaged dumb 24 port switch that just gives you 24 gigabit wired ports? And what is your budget?

I want a switch that just works. No fancy features. I want one that won't give me any issues and have all the ports working and backed by an excellent warranty.

BTW, I don't have a 16-port switch. A lot of the devices that have ethernet also have wireless so I am using that for now.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,552
429
126
There is No way to have good network with a Combo Modem/Router.

So in order to have 24 ports available One needs.

Modem + Router + 24 Port Switch (which are expensive), or few less expensive sub 10 ports devices.

---------------
P.S. Verbal drama Queening/Kinging became very common in conducting our life in the 21st century.

However, No matter what the level of the "drama" is, tangible reality and Technology do not change because of it. :hmm: - :D - :sneaky: - :rolleyes: - ;) - :colbert:


:cool:
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
There is No way to have good network with a Combo Modem/Router.

So in order to have 24 ports available One needs.

Modem + Router + 24 Port Switch (which are expensive), or few less expensive sub 10 ports devices.

---------------
P.S. Verbal drama Queening/Kinging became very common in conducting our life in the 21st century.

However, No matter what the level of the "drama" is, tangible reality and Technology do not change because of it. :hmm: - :D - :sneaky: - :rolleyes: - ;) - :colbert:


:cool:

OP, to refocus. Why do you need a 24 port GIG switch?

What are your really trying to accomplish?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
I don't know what you guys have against a good combo modem wireless router. The notion that nothing good will come from such a product is ridiculous. Verizon has had such a device for their FIOS service since Day One and no one has complained. How long has FIOS been around? How many people enjoy the service? Fact is, the product exists and has been here for a while and it works. I never hear about them breaking down on Verizon's network or else Verizon would've regressed to the single modem setup a long time ago.

FWIW, that part of the debate has been settled. I've ordered the Motorola SB6580 and it's on the way as we speak. No more Vampire rental from TWC. Now I just need a good switch. Someone earlier recommended an inexpensive Cisco switch. Others have said I should stick with the Netgears and DLinks of the world. If there are no other suggestions I will go with the Cisco.
 
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theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
I don't know what you guys have against a good combo modem wireless router. The notion that nothing good will come from such a product is ridiculous. Verizon has had such a device for their FIOS service since Day One and no one has complained. How long has FIOS been around? How many people enjoy the service? Fact is, the product exists and has been here for a while and it works. I never hear about them breaking down on Verizon's network or else Verizon would've regressed to the single modem setup a long time ago.

FWIW, that part of the debate has been settled. I've ordered the Motorola SB6580 and it's on the way as we speak. No more Vampire rental from TWC. Now I just need a good switch. Someone earlier recommended an inexpensive Cisco switch. Others have said I should stick with the Netgears and DLinks of the world. If there are no other suggestions I will go with the Cisco.

I have Fios; Verizon's routers are the same bargain basement shit as any other consumer router.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,756
20,328
146
I don't know what you guys have against a good combo modem wireless router. The notion that nothing good will come from such a product is ridiculous. Verizon has had such a device for their FIOS service since Day One and no one has complained. How long has FIOS been around? How many people enjoy the service? Fact is, the product exists and has been here for a while and it works. I never hear about them breaking down on Verizon's network or else Verizon would've regressed to the single modem setup a long time ago.

FWIW, that part of the debate has been settled. I've ordered the Motorola SB6580 and it's on the way as we speak. No more Vampire rental from TWC. Now I just need a good switch. Someone earlier recommended an inexpensive Cisco switch. Others have said I should stick with the Netgears and DLinks of the world. If there are no other suggestions I will go with the Cisco.

Relax man, we only want the best for you :)

At least the SBG6580 is on the TWC supported device list!
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
I have Fios; Verizon's routers are the same bargain basement shit as any other consumer router.

Right, so they work just fine then. I'm not looking for anything fancy in my combo device. Just something that works. But the responses here make it sound as if a combo device is a downgrade and should be avoided at all cost. As if they're the spawn of the devil. If it works it works. If it breaks down I will be on the phone with motorola to get a replacement and, in the mean time, I can just drop by a local store to pick up a replacement. For me, the upside is worth it.
 

Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,631
0
0
Right, so they work just fine then. I'm not looking for anything fancy in my combo device. Just something that works. But the responses here make it sound as if a combo device is a downgrade and should be avoided at all cost. As if they're the spawn of the devil. If it works it works. If it breaks down I will be on the phone with motorola to get a replacement and, in the mean time, I can just drop by a local store to pick up a replacement. For me, the upside is worth it.

/sigh. Those verizon combo modem/router with wifi devices? The MI424R's?

They're actually *NOTORIOUS* for being absolute junk. I've personally gone through two of them myself at work in the past year. The wifi is documented as being completely unreliable forcing a full device restart, the WAN connection locks up and you cant get into the web interface to restart it frequently. Most tech forums simply suggest buying a different fios-compatible modem because the one they give you is so unreliable. Even the verizon forums are littered with people complaining about the same issues with these devices going back to 2009. Five years later and a half dozen hardware revisions, they have the same issues.

Here's why *any* SOHO combo device is precisely littered with all the issues you're saying you're willing to spend over a thousand dollars to avoid: Router/switch/modem hardware and software are not cheap, as in "not consumer friendly" levels of not cheap. Making a single use device, just a router, or just a switch, or just a modem cheap enough that you're still able to sell them for $60 or $80 is difficult enough without cutting corners (and reducing quality in the process). Putting two of those devices together and still selling them for $60 or $80? Impossible in the consumer electronics world without definitely cutting corners on quality and reliability. Of course, when has a product being junk ever stopped a company from selling it anyway? As long as they're making money and its "good enough" for most people, who cares, right? But you made this thread looking specifically for Better than just "good enough".

From a networking perspective, everyone in this thread whom you asked for advice on this, presumably because of their experience in networking, has advised that combining devices like you want is a Capital B Bad Idea for numerous reasons. Personally, if my switch dies on me I dont want to have to backup, restore, and validate a perfectly good router config too because the whole device had to be replaced. I want to swap the switch and move on. Likewise, if there's a problem somewhere in the chain, it's *much* easier to pinpoint with separate devices that you can physically connect hardware between to test. And single devices are just more reliable.

It's all sitting in a closet nobody's going to look in unless there's a problem or a change to be made anyway, there's honestly little reason to combine devices and plenty more reasons why doing it is inviting a much greater risk of exactly the issues you're trying to avoid.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,552
429
126
As a Modem Interface the FIOS device is OK, as a Wireless Router it is Junk.

That said if the OP is satisfaction with it is OK, nothing is wrong with it.

However, being happy with the FIOS Router part does indicate in general the user's Network needs and the way it is used.

In this thread the satisfaction with the Modem/Router combo and the nature of the "Demands" concerning other devices do not go together.

As I mentioned above the OP problem is of decorative nature, having issues with too many small plastic boxes.

I am not sure but might be that the Martha Stuart site can provide better advice on decorative matter.



:cool:
 
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Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
/sigh. Those verizon combo modem/router with wifi devices? The MI424R's?

They're actually *NOTORIOUS* for being absolute junk. I've personally gone through two of them myself at work in the past year. The wifi is documented as being completely unreliable forcing a full device restart, the WAN connection locks up and you cant get into the web interface to restart it frequently. Most tech forums simply suggest buying a different fios-compatible modem because the one they give you is so unreliable. Even the verizon forums are littered with people complaining about the same issues with these devices going back to 2009. Five years later and a half dozen hardware revisions, they have the same issues.

Here's why *any* SOHO combo device is precisely littered with all the issues you're saying you're willing to spend over a thousand dollars to avoid: Router/switch/modem hardware and software are not cheap, as in "not consumer friendly" levels of not cheap. Making a single use device, just a router, or just a switch, or just a modem cheap enough that you're still able to sell them for $60 or $80 is difficult enough without cutting corners (and reducing quality in the process). Putting two of those devices together and still selling them for $60 or $80? Impossible in the consumer electronics world without definitely cutting corners on quality and reliability. Of course, when has a product being junk ever stopped a company from selling it anyway? As long as they're making money and its "good enough" for most people, who cares, right? But you made this thread looking specifically for Better than just "good enough".

From a networking perspective, everyone in this thread whom you asked for advice on this, presumably because of their experience in networking, has advised that combining devices like you want is a Capital B Bad Idea for numerous reasons. Personally, if my switch dies on me I dont want to have to backup, restore, and validate a perfectly good router config too because the whole device had to be replaced. I want to swap the switch and move on. Likewise, if there's a problem somewhere in the chain, it's *much* easier to pinpoint with separate devices that you can physically connect hardware between to test. And single devices are just more reliable.

It's all sitting in a closet nobody's going to look in unless there's a problem or a change to be made anyway, there's honestly little reason to combine devices and plenty more reasons why doing it is inviting a much greater risk of exactly the issues you're trying to avoid.

The motorola device I'm getting is $140 and I have little interest in the wireless portion, just the modem and router....
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,756
20,328
146
The motorola device I'm getting is $140 and I have little interest in the wireless portion, just the modem and router....

Until your switch dies, then you plan on getting everything on the wireless while getting the switch replaced?

My config:

Motorola SB6120 - $50

Linksys E3000, running Tomato-USB - $60

rocks DOCSIS 3.0, and I can swap out what I want when I want. E3000 is solid on the WiFi side, and gigabit ports yield great speeds on both file tranfers and iperf tests...

There's nothing wrong with what you want to do. Just don't expect the world...and plan for worst case failures.

If you have to replace the Modem/router unit, call TWC and provide them the #'s off the new one so they can provision it. No big deal....you're just choosing the way that most of us don't. This step applies to any modem, doesn't matter whether or not it's a combo unit.

Keep in mind that while it's (the modem/router) offline, you can't give out DHCP, the existing leases can lapse, and anything at layer 3 won't work...

People ask me about this same scenario, including a couple family members. This is all I ask:

-Any problems?
-Are you happy with it?

If the answers are yes, then I tell them to not worry about it. That's all that matters.

The big difference here is that you have many more clients (16 wired ports?)

I consider myself an experienced network user...and try to wire as much as I can...leaving wireless for non-important functions...and I don't have that many wired clients. 5-8 tops, depending on what I'm running all at once. 1 or 2 more for wireless.
 
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Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,631
0
0
The motorola device I'm getting is $140 and I have little interest in the wireless portion, just the modem and router....

I'm not sure why you're getting hung up on the wireless. Whether you intend to use it or not, they still cut corners to put that modem and router WITH wireless in one box in order to keep it $140 and not $250. An SB6141 (or SB6121) modem and a separate quality routing device such as an ASUS N66U (I like the N16 as well if you want to save some cash) will be more reliable, easier to troubleshoot issues with, and less of a big deal to fix should one of them fail.

You're intentionally creating a single point of failure for your entire network. It's essentially the worst design choice you could possibly make for a home network, but it's still your network, your time, and your money. If you're gonna do it anyway by all means have at, though i'm not sure why you're still asking us for advice :confused:
 

dawza

Senior member
Dec 31, 2005
921
0
76
Listen to the advice to segregate hardware according to purpose, even for a home network. I have in my condo (wired 5e) a central network closet corner with the ISP cable modem followed by a pfsense box, a managed 24 port Procurve gigs switch, and dedicated 2.4 and 5GHz WAPs. Makes troubleshooting so, so, so much easier, as well as expansion and upgrading.

Simple example: I use old Aironet 1100s for 2.4 WiFi. These are dirt cheap on eBay, so I have at least one preconfigured backup on hand. The 2.4 devices started acting up, so I popped out the existing Aironet and slotted in the backup. 5 minutes and done. Life went on, and I could take my time to troubleshoot the old WAP later.
 

kevnich2

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2004
2,465
8
76
I want a switch that just works. No fancy features. I want one that won't give me any issues and have all the ports working and backed by an excellent warranty.

BTW, I don't have a 16-port switch. A lot of the devices that have ethernet also have wireless so I am using that for now.

OP if you are fine with the performance of a combo modem/router - then this is the switch I would recommend if you absolutely require gigabit: http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-JGS524...24+port+switch

It's unmanaged, low cost and metal housing. As far as something being guaranteed not to die - that doesn't exist. Even the most expensive cisco switch could die once you plug it in. This switch will do just fine for what I can anticipate your needs being. I am still not sure that you require 24 ports of gigabit but to each their own in this case.
 

kevnich2

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2004
2,465
8
76
Right, so they work just fine then. I'm not looking for anything fancy in my combo device. Just something that works. But the responses here make it sound as if a combo device is a downgrade and should be avoided at all cost. As if they're the spawn of the devil. If it works it works. If it breaks down I will be on the phone with motorola to get a replacement and, in the mean time, I can just drop by a local store to pick up a replacement. For me, the upside is worth it.

The big issue with combo modem/router boxes is that they cut a lot of corner's to stuff the hardware in there and still maintain a price point so that they sell. Does it work, technically speaking yes, it will provide internet and wireless to the devices attached. Does it provide top notch performance, excellent wifi throughput, features of other similar priced hardware and a GUI that is easy to navigate and make changes to - NO. For $150 for both a modem and a router, you could do a lot better.

Seems like you want some of your hardware to be absolutely rock solid but others you don't seem to care too much about and when you're given recommendations by a lot of people that WORK in the industry, you seem to not care too much about their recommendation. But it's your decision to make so good luck with it!
 

Enigma102083

Member
Dec 25, 2009
147
0
0
This isn't even about performance, it's about reliable network design. You want as much diversity in the functions of your network as possible, because it's not a matter of IF something breaks, it's a matter of WHEN. You want these functions as modular as possible so long term its easier to fix and maintain.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
The new SB6580 is a awesome. I'm loving it so far. Installed it yesterday and my internet speed increased by 700% (8X the speed). I couldn't believe it. Also, less plugs to fuss with and it has far more features than the TP-Link router I replaced it with. This combo device is awesome. I think since it's DOCSIS 3.0 the signal is more stable.

I will now look into the suggestions for the switch. I appreciate all the inputs. As for a combo/router being a single point of failure, this device cannot be worse than the crap I got from TWC in the past. Then, when the modem died, my internet access died. Same thing with my router (which never happened). So, the critical device (modem) dying leads to the exact same result: NO INTERNET. Therefore, nothing will change as far as service is concerned. Nothing.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,552
429
126
So let me see if I understand.

TWC in NYC regular Modem (DOCSIS 2.0) provides 30Mb/sec. down.

Are you getting now 240MB/sec.?

Or the number 8 is a Quote of the Amazon page of the Motorola?

Quote:

Motorola SURFboard® eXtreme Wireless Cable Modem Gateway

Highlights

Capable of downloading up to 8000 times faster than 56k analog phone modems
Capable of downloading up to 8 times faster than DOCSIS 2.0 broadband cable modems
DOCSIS® 3.0 Certified



:cool:
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
So let me see if I understand.

TWC in NYC regular Modem (DOCSIS 2.0) provides 30Mb/sec. down.

Are you getting now 240MB/sec.?

Or the number 8 is a Quote of the Amazon page of the Motorola?

Quote:

Motorola SURFboard® eXtreme Wireless Cable Modem Gateway

Highlights

Capable of downloading up to 8000 times faster than 56k analog phone modems
Capable of downloading up to 8 times faster than DOCSIS 2.0 broadband cable modems
DOCSIS® 3.0 Certified



:cool:

No, not that. I've been having problems with my internet service the past couple of weeks. This is one of the reasons I wanted to get a better modem. Every time I went to the service center they would give me the same type of modem. Last time I checked the speed test with the RCA modem it was something like 6Mb/s. Now it's 48Mb/s. Oddly, upload speed is more or less the same. Not sure what voodoo the Motorola is doing but I'm loving it so far. Over the past week I've been reading a lot about DOCSIS 2.0 and 3.0 and people say that 3.0 produces a more stable, reliable speed since there is greater channel bonding. Whatever is going on I'm liking it.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
I don't know what you guys have against a good combo modem wireless router. The notion that nothing good will come from such a product is ridiculous. Verizon has had such a device for their FIOS service since Day One and no one has complained. How long has FIOS been around? How many people enjoy the service? Fact is, the product exists and has been here for a while and it works. I never hear about them breaking down on Verizon's network or else Verizon would've regressed to the single modem setup a long time ago.
The Verizon FIOS router is just that, a wireless router. It is NOT a modem, and not a combo router/modem.