Looking for >12-Bay Chassis for eSATA to compliment HTPC

[Pacal]

I'm preparing to build a HTPC, and I want to compliment it with an external storage array connected via Areca's 1231ML SATA Raid Adapter. I am planning to use Zalman's HD160XT to encase the HTPC and there's no room for the 12 drives that will make up the raid array. I'm looking for product recommendations; anything that will blend in with the home theater equipment. Originally, I was looking for a rackmount chassis with (12) hot-swappable bays but not all the home theater equipment will mount. So I've decided to stratify everything on floating shelves (glass/plastic composite) inside the rack to compromise.

Looking forward to hearing from you tech heads,
Pacal

 

[BurnItDwn]

Sorry I Don't have any recomendations that will help you do what you want to do, however, I do have a possible alternative.

It might be wise to build a seperate system in a full tower with 12+ bays ... and then put it in a different room, then connect it to the HTPC via gigabit Ethernet.

Any 12 drive raid array is gonna probably be loud enough to be annoying if it's an HTPC ....

 

[mercanucaribe]

What are you gonna record with 6000gb???

 

[MedicBob]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
What are you gonna record with 6000gb???

If you have to ask, you don't want to know.

Rackmount is the only way I can see it happening, but you ruled that out.

I like the seperate room idea BurnItDwn mentions.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: MedicBob

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
What are you gonna record with 6000gb???

If you have to ask, you don't want to know.

Rackmount is the only way I can see it happening, but you ruled that out.

I like the seperate room idea BurnItDwn mentions.

6000GB is a lot of space for media... I record SD material at 6Mbps (~2GB/hour). 3000 hours seems like a lot for a DVR. Even if you're recording HD MPEG2 streams that would hold at least 400-500 hours worth. Maybe he's planning on ripping a VERY large DVD and CD collection? And/or using it to house other data? Also, the OP didn't indicate he would necessarily be using 12x500GB drives (although if you want less storage than that, a smaller array using bigger drives would probably be cheaper, since a 12-bay external enclosure will be expensive on its own.)

In any case, I also suggest using a networked file server. I have my HTPC act as the fileserver for my network, but I only have a four-drive RAID5 array in it. If you want a huge amount of storage without it being ugly and loud your best bet is to put it physically somewhere else. GigE can push data pretty dang fast.

 

[Nnyan]

http://www.norcotek.com/DS-1220.php

http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sata_enclosures/scsata12rm.asp

 

[Pacal]

BurnItDwn,

Turning the array into a NAS is an interesting idea. There are some performance advantages associated with the raid configuration and write-back cache setup that I don't want the HTPC or any other node on the network to miss out on. At full swing the array should excel at 1624MB Read and 1295MB Write. My networking know-how is a bit lacking and I'm not hip on the hardware necessary to channel this kind of bandwidth. I would also have to boot the machine over LAN and there's the issue of isolating one system from another on a single consolidated raid array. Have you any knowledge or advice on the particulars of such a setup?

The rack or cabinet I intend to build using extruded aluminum from mkProfiles.com and wood will be lined with sound dampening material. Only the HTPC will be visible outside of this and I may even stuff it in there. I'm still sorting out just how I want this combination desk and home-entertainment center to look like. It'll probably have swivelling wings with overhanging cabinets on the left and right side and the center station will be suspended on hydraulic legs with an intense looking overhang that will allow me to move the LCD out from the desk so others can watch tv while I use the computer.

mercanucaribe,

Bluray, HD/DVDs, MP3's, Images, Disc Images, Games, Applications, et cetera...
I dont expect I will be able to fill the 6TB anytime soon, but the extra storage is nice to have.

MedicBob,

I'm not opposed to a rackmount solution, in fact, I'm not sure there's any alternative other than the 12-bay tower.

Matthias99,

Those statistics regarding your SD material are interesting. I won't be filling the array initially, but the raid interface tops out at 12 drives so that's what I'm planning for as you might of suspected. Tell me about your networked file-server: specs, os, interface, network hardware, et cetera.

Nnyan,

Thanks bro, those are exactly the kind of recommendations I was interested in; although, if I can round up all the details regarding a NAS raid array I may go that route instead.


Thank you all for stopping by,
Pacal

 

[Matthias99]

Those statistics regarding your SD material are interesting. I won't be filling the array initially, but the raid interface tops out at 12 drives so that's what I'm planning for as you might of suspected. Tell me about your networked file-server: specs, os, interface, network hardware, et cetera.

I just have what could be a run-of-the-mill desktop PC with a 3Ware hardware RAID5 controller and four 160GB drives. I think it's got an Athlon64 2800+ and 512MB of RAM. It's just running WinXP Home, and I use the normal Windows file sharing to access the array over the network. It's nothing fancy -- not even gigabit ethernet. But it's plenty for backing up my other systems, recording/watching SDTV content, and watching recorded videos from the other computers. I also use Hauppauge hardware tuners, so it doesn't need much CPU power. I actually have the system boot up off a single hard drive plugged right into the motherboard (an older 80GB one I had), and then I just use the array for media files. It's possible to boot up off the array, but it seemed easier to do the install first, get the drivers installed, and then set it up from within Windows.

You don't really need tons of horsepower for a dedicated NAS -- although if you want to be topping out GigE you'll need a decent CPU, and you'll want your ethernet controller to be PCIe (or your only PCI device). You won't be able to push data over the network anywhere near the speed that a fast RAID0 or RAID5/6 array can take it.

As for an OS -- Windows works fine (although you'll need server versions to get things like software RAID5 -- there's also some new storage options with Windows Home Server); Linux (running SAMBA to provide Windows-readable network shares) is another viable option.

 

[zephyrprime]

Well, I don't have any recommendations since I've never used something like this firsthand but there are definitely products like what the OP is looking for.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816133001

 

[MerlinRML]

The only way I see you being able to use 12 hard drives in a HTPC case is with external storage of some type, whether it be direct attached in an external enclosure or network attached running from a NAS or file server.

I know how important aesthetics are for the home thater, but you could buiild your HTPC system into a file server enclosure which should allow for enough disks. Supermicro and AIC both make a 2U enclosure that will hold 12 SATA disks. Then you can just install your HTPC system into that enclosure. I will warn you that they're very loud, though. Personally, I use a file server running in another room, but just wanted to point out it may be easier to build one new system rather than 2.

The cases I've used have been black (not white, as pictured).
SuperMicro 2u chassis
SuperMicro 3u chassis

Also, I want to warn you that your numbers for 1600MB/sec reads and 1200MB/sec writes are on the high side for only 12 disks. If you are planning on RAID 5, your estimations are close to double of what I would expect. And the reality is that your gigabit network is limited to 125MB/sec anyway.

 

[Nnyan]

Pacal,

I actually have my storage on a RAID 5 NAS box in my server closet (spare storage room with AC ducted to it = ) since I did not want a big ol box near my TV area. But your post got me thinking about this again and I did find a few more alternatives.

http://lime-technology.com/

http://www.atechfabrication.com/ms_8x_order_form.htm

I have a friend of mine that is going to convert a SilverStone Tek LC01 into a 10 drive NAS. He's going to have to do some modding since it normally only handles 6 hard drives so he'll end up cutting some things out and building a custom "rack" to hold the 10 drives.

 

[VirtualLarry]

To start with, use a XION Stacker case, $49.99 AR + shipping at NewEgg. link

Then add four of these, they hold 3 HDs and fit into two 5.25in bay slots. Giving you 12 HD bays. $23 x 4 = $92 + shippping.

Then install an OS, on a gigabit network card on a cheap mobo + CPU, and you're golden.

 

[Pacal]

Offtopic,
What do you fellas think of the newly released ATI "R600" 2900XT? I held out on purchasing the necessary components for the HTPC until ATI made their debut with the official launch of the "R600" series of graphics cards, but it looks like the product fell short of expectations.

Clarification,
I should have explained my intentions at more depth before tossing questions around. So here's the scenario... I'm in the process of building what might be considered a "dream home"-- it's very large and there are several of us who will be occupying the place. I'm interested in wiring the entire place and consolidating all the computer systems into one location for ease of management. This Home Theater Center represents a miniaturized version of what I would like to do for my entire home. The optimum setup, based on my limited knowledge, seemed to be a network of computers possibly in a cluster array with only a few independent systems with dedicated hardware for gaming or other intensive applications. What I want out of this Home Theater Center-- and feel free to critique me-- is a single independent system (HTPC), multiple displays, large storage array, independent water or tec cooling system, and a high capacity intranet or network for additional nodes or independent systems. I want to pack all of this into a 10ft long piece of furniture that is isolated from anything else. Now I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge and expertise on the matter of distributed computing is limited-- so much so that my expectations may be unrealistic with the current trends in software design; mainly the lack of support for distrib. computing environments. However, if the advantages associated with virtual machines and distributed networks are real, then it sounds like the best strategy in isolating and consolidating all that computer hardware that would otherwise be scattered across the house and minimizing workstations to a display and keyboard/mouse. I recognize the concept described here is lacking in detail, but perhaps some of you experts can elaborate on what you feel is the best or most realistic approach for your dream home given the aforementioned goals.


Matthias99,

Thank you for those details. It helps me to hear what others have done and are doing.

zephyrprime,

That NORCO DS-1220 is probably the best option I've seen yet. It looks to have its own RAID interface and setup though. I wonder if a DIY external eSATA array would be a better route not unlike what MerlinRML was suggesting...

MerlinRML,

Thank ya for the links there. I'm beginning to suspect that a DIY array may be the way to go.

Nnyan,

That A-Tech Fab. website is awesome! Will your body be documenting his modding adventures?

VirtualLarry,

Thanks for the DIY recommendation. Those kind of contributions always seem to have more potential.



I think the best approach then for this storage array, based on all the generous advice and help provided here is to attach this storage array to the HTPC via eSATA so the HTPC can benefit from the performance advantages associated with the Areca 1231ML RAID interface, BBU, and RAID6 array with full-on 2GB write-back cache. The HTPC is based off of Asus' P5N32-E SLI mobo which features dual Gigabit MAC with external marvell PHY and nVidia's DualNet technology. I'm hoping I can squeeze 250MB/s or 2Gb/s one-way and 500MB/s or 4Gb/s bidirectionally from this. Thanks ribbon13 for shining me onto this technology. The RAID6 array, according to Areca's documentation will swing 1624MB Read/1295MB Write on the local machine, but the network bandwidth even with nVidia's DualNET isn't enough to tap the full potential of the storage array; so I feel like this is a good compromise between network available storage and a high-perf. HTPC.

Note: I noticed Asus just released a new version of the Striker Extreme coined simply as "Striker".

 

[mrred]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
To start with, use a XION Stacker case, $49.99 AR + shipping at NewEgg. link

Then add four of these, they hold 3 HDs and fit into two 5.25in bay slots. Giving you 12 HD bays. $23 x 4 = $92 + shippping.

Then install an OS, on a gigabit network card on a cheap mobo + CPU, and you're golden.

...but once that's all set up, doesn't he end up with 12 different drive letters?

 

[Mday]

Originally posted by: mrred

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
To start with, use a XION Stacker case, $49.99 AR + shipping at NewEgg. link

Then add four of these, they hold 3 HDs and fit into two 5.25in bay slots. Giving you 12 HD bays. $23 x 4 = $92 + shippping.

Then install an OS, on a gigabit network card on a cheap mobo + CPU, and you're golden.

...but once that's all set up, doesn't he end up with 12 different drive letters?

OP said he'd be using a RAID controller.

 

[Zepper]

Instead of four 3-in-2 cages, use a 4-in-3 solution like the Coolermaster 4-in-3 Device Module (STB-3T4-E1) - about $20. each at http://www.jab-tech.com . 3x$20 is better than 4x$25! Or you could use 4 or 5 drive hot-swap cages at over $100. each. Depends on how rich you are. Or you could use two of the Xion cases and use a mobile rack for each drive. That way you could have up to 18 hot-swap drives between the two.

.bh.

 

[Pacal]

Ya'll have come up with some very clever DIY recommendations, and I'm inclined to go that very route rather than fishing for a prepackaged solution.

Part's List
12-16 Bay Chassis (Still searching for the perfect box)
Seasonic 500W PSU
WD RE2 500GB SATAII Drives (x12-16)
eSATA ports & cords

 

[MerlinRML]

Are you planning to run 12-16 eSATA cables out of the back of the case, or do you plan to use port multiplier with 3-5 cables? Does your controller support port multiplier (or I think FIS/command based switching will also work)? A lot of controllers don't support it currently, and a quick glance at Areca's website gave no info about it.

Also, eSATA only gives you a max of 2m of cable length, so you can't go too far without running into signalling issues. If you want to go further than that, you've got to look at something like external SAS (up to 10m), or beyond that ethernet or fibre channel.

 

[Pacal]

MerlinRML,

On a twelve (12) drive array, there are only three 1m eSATA cables and four on a sixteen (16) drive array. Here's one possible route around port multipliers:

http://www.rackmountpro.com/productsear...129&vid=0&startrow=1&showallproducts=1
3 Ware SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 Multi-Lane Internal Mini SAS Cable, to externally connect the boxes to one another
3 Ware SFF8087 to Discrete 0.5 Meter ( Forward breakout cable ), to internally connect the four drives up to the sata channel

I emailed Areca to ask about compatible port multipliers for the ARC-1261ML; will have to wait and see what they have to say.

These are the best rack mount storage arrays I can find...
http://www.aicipc.com
http://usa.chenbro.com
http://www.cidesign.com

My favorite so far...
http://www.aicipc.com/productDetail_galley.asp?catID=9&id=181

Cool forum...
http://forums.storagereview.net

~Ciphex

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd like to retract my suggestion of using the XION Stacker (although it is cheap!). I recently had a closer look at a ThermalTake Armor case, and it seems like a better (more drives) solution.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133154

It has 11 5.25in bays, and three internal 3.5in bays. Using 3-in-2 HD cages, that gives you 5x3=15+3=18 HD bays, and one bay for a 3.5in floppy and power/reset switches.
(For some insane reason, the power/reset switches for this case are mounted along with the floppy mounting bracket, instead of something more sane such as being located along the top of the case with the USB/audio connectors.)

I'm thinking of going this route myself for a storage server. I could use some recommendations of SATA RAID cards for something like this. I was going to use four SI3114 PCI cards, with 4 RAID 5 arrays of 4 disks each, but wouldn't it be more storage-efficient to use a controller card that could handle a larger number of drives?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I dont know the company or type, but there was a case produced that I saw a while back that had like 24 bays in it and was twice the width of standard cases. I thought it was made by Lian Li but obviously I don't see that case on their site but it exists somewhere.

Either way, it was all aluminum and black and looked fairly sexy You might be able to work with that given a simple celeron or sempron processor, and some memory. If you really wanted all of that throughput, you could always get a server board and put a RAID card in one PCI-e slot and a short run single mode fiber card linking the two together or to a backbone switch. Depends on how much throughput you want I'd suppose.

EDIT: I apologize. I was simply browsing through searching for a different topic and stumbled upon this one. I had no idea it was already several months old.

 

[JackBurton]

I'd recommend this guy for your case. You can get a maximum of 18 drives in that bad boy. I'd also get 1TB drives instead of 500GB drive to give you room to grow. The ideal config would be, two RAID controllers (in RAID 5 or 10, depending on the redundancy level you'd like) with 9 drives each. And of course, make sure you have a least one gigabit NIC in that case.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
I'd recommend this guy for your case. You can get a maximum of 18 drives in that bad boy. I'd also get 1TB drives instead of 500GB drive to give you room to grow. The ideal config would be, two RAID controllers (in RAID 5 or 10, depending on the redundancy level you'd like) with 9 drives each. And of course, make sure you have a least one gigabit NIC in that case.

That was the case! hm.. I thought Lian Li had made it but since I didn't see it on the site I thought I was wrong. Guess I was right in the first place.

 

[Tristor]

I have 2 suggestions for this adventure, mainly because I am doing something extremely similar (so close as to be almost identical, I'm doing the same thing but with 1TB drives) and I've been doing my research + have a good amount of experience in this area. GO RACKMOUNT, it will save you tons of headaches. This is the type of application rack equipment was made for. The other thing is, don't use eSATA if you can help it. It has a 2M range, and you really really don't want 12 high-speed drives + their cooling running right next to your TV while you are trying to watch a movie. Get a RAID subsystem with an SAS or Fibre Channel (preferable, but more expensive) host-bus, because then you can put it in another room or in your basement and run the cables from there for it, not to mention getting much better throughput for a multi-drive config.

The bad part about doing that is it it isn't going to be cheap. A cheaper solution, but in a similar vein is to get a used 1U server from a local asset recovery shop that supports full-size PCI-X cards and go with a Norco 12bay 3U eSata SATAII RAID Subsystem as it's about as cheap as you can go and find something workable. It includes the eSATA controller card (PCI-X) as well. I still think you shouldn't use eSATA, as even doing this will not be quite as fast as having the RAID subsystem directly connected via fibre channel, even if you have a gigabit ethernet connection between the fileserver and the htpc. At any rate, you will not find a subsystem of any sort that you will want sitting anywhere near your TV, since they are /loud/, and you will want to rackmount it.

 

[Knavish]

If I was building a computer network into a "dream home" like you're talking about, I'd definitely vote for rackmount hardware in a (large & cool) basement closet. You can have all your home's ethernet run into a gig switch in the closet. Why are you concerned with getting the full RAID read / write speed at a box beside your television? I doubt you'll ever find a source that will require that much read / write bandwidth. (Maybe you will if you wait for the version of HD we use in 25 years...)

I'd say put a small & quiet "frontend" system by your TV and let the loud server sit in the basement. Also, when you put the server in the basement you can cool it with fans and save your water cooler for a oc'ed gaming box.