Looking at UPS units

[VirtualLarry]

I have three computer desks, with a shelf underneath as part of them. Each desk has a wall plug associated with it, too, to plug in a surge protector or a UPS.

Some years ago (three, maybe four?), I went to Microcenter, and picked up like 4-5 CyberPower 550VA UPS units. They were only like $40 ea. They are rated at 330W.

I had, variously, Core2Quad, G3258 @ 4.0, and now, Skylake G4400 @ 4.455Ghz, with 7950 3GB cards, hooked up. Doing distributed-computing on both the CPU and GPU was just a bit too much, as the UPS would tend to alarm due to overload.

Also, I had to change out my PSUs, because the previous PSUs didn't like the non-pure-sine-wave UPS signal. Settled on a set of EVGA Bronze PSUs, which seem to tolerate the battery-backup alright.

So, my solution, was to plug the PC into the "surge only" outlets, and leave the monitor and the wall-warts plugged into the battery + surge outlets. Less than ideal.

So, now that I fried one of the 550VA / 330W CyberPower UPSs (firmware now thinks max wattage is 220W), one died completely (battery died completely), and one left standing (surge-only), it's time for some new UPS units.

If I had the money, Newegg has some CyberPower 1350VA / 810W units right now on ShellShocker, with "Pure Sine Wave", "LCD display", and "USB charging ports", for $125 FS. Not bad at all.

But I'm wondering if I can get away with less.

I've switched my primary PCs over to ASRock DeskMini units, which come with a 110W laptop-style PSU. But I would like to keep the option open to putting a full tower PC into my desk's cubby and connecting it, to work on people's PCs and whatnot.

My monitors, on two out of the three desks, are 40" 4K UHD HDR TVs, which I think take 40W full load.

So nominal computing load, on the mini-PC and 40" 4K, is under 100W. If I hook up a tower PC, and do DC on it (like I have been during these colder months), that's probably another 350-450W, easily. Maybe 500W at the wall, for the tower PC.

So, that's like 600W of capacity needed for the UPS inverter. Which would work with the CyberPower ShellShocker UPS deal.

But if I continue doing what I have been doing, hooking the tower PC up to the "surge only" outlets, then I can get away with a significantly cheaper UPS.

BestBuy on ebay, has an 825VA / 420W LCD CyberPower UPS for nearly $80 shipped, and a 450VA model without LCD for $45 shipped. I think that one is 230W.

The problem is, budget. I realistically need three of these.

 

[bigboxes]

I had smaller UPSs for years. When I started building more powerful computers and wanted them on longer (for the occasional blackouts) I realized that I needed bigger UPSs. I couldn't figure out why my computers wouldn't stay on during a power outage and finally realized my expensive PSUs were all PFC. I needed an sine wave model that could accommodate that. They weren't cheap, but I bought them one at a time as I could afford them. I remember when my APC Back-Ups 1250 started giving me issues and replaced it with a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD (already had one in the main rig). Each one powers a computer. I divide up the rest of the networking peripherals between them. If your network doesn't stay up when the power goes off then what's the point? They stay on for 45-55 minutes during an outage before I have to shut them down. Usually, that is long enough before power is restored. Usually within 5-10 minutes. Power outages are rare here. Brownouts are not. Thank God for UPSs! My wife's rig is an AMD 7850K and I was able to do with less and got her an 1000VA APC (sine wave) unit.

I realize you want a deal. I'm not one for impulse buys, but I believe in planning and purchasing what I want. If a deal presents itself on something I want them I will pull the trigger when I see them. Outside of that I try not to let "deals" detour me from my designs. I just save up and buy them as I can afford them.

 

[jimbob200521]

I guess my one question is why even bother having UPS's if you're even considering hooking the PC's up the surge only side? What's the point of having your monitors and wall warts battery protected but not the actual computers?

Edit: That being said, I have one of the 1350va 810watt Cyberpower UPS's you are looking at and have been happy with it. I actually have my main PC as well as my server hooked up to the battery backed up side along with dual Dell U2410f monitors (not the most power efficient monitors on the market). The unit states it will (depending on PC usage) only last about 8 minutes or so but that's with two quad core i7 machines along with half a dozen hard drives, two monitors, video cards, etc hooked up to it. I would like to have a second UPS but like you, money doesn't always come when I want it to. That being said $125 for that UPS is a hell of a deal...

Side note: I know two full PC's on one battery backup isn't ideal either, but; I have the software set to shut down my server when the batteries get low and my main reason for getting this UPS was the occasional (seeming to become more frequent, depending on weather) brown out or brief power loss we have around here. If it can sustain both PC's for but a few minutes, that's all I want it for. Anything longer than a few minute power outage and I'd shut them down anyway.

 

[UsandThem]

I'd personally get the larger units. I've bought my CP1500PFCLCD units when they go on sale for $130 (usually this sale price several times a year from Amazon, BH Photo, Newegg, etc).

When I've gone with the "what is the minimum that would work for me today" buying method, I usually end up regretting it within a year or two.

Even my old Cyber Power UPS from 2012 is going strong, although I will likely have to replace the batteries in the next 12-18 months ($55 - $70, or just buy another unit when on sale).

 

[VirtualLarry]

I guess my one question is why even bother having UPS's if you're even considering hooking the PC's up the surge only side? What's the point of having your monitors and wall warts battery protected but not the actual computers?

Because, with the undersized UPS, that option is "less bad"? Meaning, that when the power glitches momentarily, if I plug the PCs into the "surge only" outlets, they can ride out the power glitch. If I plug them into the "battery + surge" outlets, then the unit tries to switch to battery, gets overloaded, and shuts off, and shuts off the PCs in the process.

 

[bigboxes]

Because, with the undersized UPS, that option is "less bad"? Meaning, that when the power glitches momentarily, if I plug the PCs into the "surge only" outlets, they can ride out the power glitch. If I plug them into the "battery + surge" outlets, then the unit tries to switch to battery, gets overloaded, and shuts off, and shuts off the PCs in the process.

What do think that UPSs are for? First and foremost they are for the computer. Good UPSs use AVR to run the attached equipment all the time, not just when the power goes out. With a good UPS you should not know the difference when the power goes out.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would put the PCs on battery side and all the other stuff on surge. If monitors flicker durring a power bump it's not a huge deal compared to the PCs seeing the brunt of a brownout followed by a surge not to mention the reboot and losing whatever you were doing.

If you want longer run time, look at an inverter-charger. It's essentially a UPS but you supply your own batteries - bigger ones. I have 4 deep cycle marine batteries for my servers.

You will pay a premium for pure sine though. Square wave is normally ok for most PCs but some won't like it so it's kind of a gamble.

For batteries it's often cheaper to buy locally. Find a local electrical store or something and they often will sell them. $20 for a batter vs the $100+ that the UPS manufacturer want.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

You can pickup solid APC units (eg. SmartUPS 1000, 620, etc.) for free / cheap.
It's the dang batteries that get you (easily $25 - $50 to replace).

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah for replacements just go with 3rd party, they're basically the same battery with a different label anyway and like 1/4 the price of what APC asks. All made in China, probably in the same factory. There's an electrical shop here I typically get them from. Security/fire alarm shops will typically carry those batteries too.

Ebay is a good source for used UPSes that have no batteries but are super cheap. The shipping is what kills you though, but if you are lucky to find one that's available near where you live you can always arrange for pickup. I'm not so lucky here in Canada though, even if I happen to find one located in Canada it will probably be like Toronto or something and be very far. Shipping a UPS from the states is like close to a grand lol. So ya I always buy new, cheaper.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Yeah, if there is a killer deal (eg. the Belkin 1500VA units I got for ~$60 / piece ages ago), it's cheaper to just replace the old unit since even 3rd party batteries will cost ~$25 each shipped.
The price that APC charges for original RBCs is just ... indecent

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I have three computer desks, with a shelf underneath as part of them. Each desk has a wall plug associated with it, too, to plug in a surge protector or a UPS.

Some years ago (three, maybe four?), I went to Microcenter, and picked up like 4-5 CyberPower 550VA UPS units. They were only like $40 ea. They are rated at 330W.

I had, variously, Core2Quad, G3258 @ 4.0, and now, Skylake G4400 @ 4.455Ghz, with 7950 3GB cards, hooked up. Doing distributed-computing on both the CPU and GPU was just a bit too much, as the UPS would tend to alarm due to overload.

Also, I had to change out my PSUs, because the previous PSUs didn't like the non-pure-sine-wave UPS signal. Settled on a set of EVGA Bronze PSUs, which seem to tolerate the battery-backup alright.

So, my solution, was to plug the PC into the "surge only" outlets, and leave the monitor and the wall-warts plugged into the battery + surge outlets. Less than ideal.

So, now that I fried one of the 550VA / 330W CyberPower UPSs (firmware now thinks max wattage is 220W), one died completely (battery died completely), and one left standing (surge-only), it's time for some new UPS units.

If I had the money, Newegg has some CyberPower 1350VA / 810W units right now on ShellShocker, with "Pure Sine Wave", "LCD display", and "USB charging ports", for $125 FS. Not bad at all.

But I'm wondering if I can get away with less.

I've switched my primary PCs over to ASRock DeskMini units, which come with a 110W laptop-style PSU. But I would like to keep the option open to putting a full tower PC into my desk's cubby and connecting it, to work on people's PCs and whatnot.

My monitors, on two out of the three desks, are 40" 4K UHD HDR TVs, which I think take 40W full load.

So nominal computing load, on the mini-PC and 40" 4K, is under 100W. If I hook up a tower PC, and do DC on it (like I have been during these colder months), that's probably another 350-450W, easily. Maybe 500W at the wall, for the tower PC.

So, that's like 600W of capacity needed for the UPS inverter. Which would work with the CyberPower ShellShocker UPS deal.

But if I continue doing what I have been doing, hooking the tower PC up to the "surge only" outlets, then I can get away with a significantly cheaper UPS.

BestBuy on ebay, has an 825VA / 420W LCD CyberPower UPS for nearly $80 shipped, and a 450VA model without LCD for $45 shipped. I think that one is 230W.

The problem is, budget. I realistically need three of these.

Maybe I have been both parsimonious and mildly profligate at the same time as pertains to my UPS "power-insurance." Ordinarily I try to provide one UPS for each workstation/server. At the same time, I've been trying to discipline the power draw of my computer-builds. [And don't we all?!]

I tried a CyberPower 1350VA unit purchased around 2011 when I built my first Sandy Bridge system. Maybe you contributed to the discussion when I posted my thread about it: but it was causing trouble with my Seasonic PSU, and I hadn't been able to identify it for several months. Apparently that model CP had problems with certain PSUs with Active-PFC, and I kept misidentifying the cause of my troubles as something else. I just happened to come across a long screed of a customer-review on the 1350VA unit, with manufacturer replies explaining the problem further.

I've used TrippLite, Belkin, APC and the CyberPower. The only unit that gave me troubles was the CP. And before I got wise to the "care and maintenance of UPS battery backups," I was junking the TrippLites and the Belkin without thought to replacing just the batteries.

Live and learn.

But now, we're using all APC units for the computers. Some of them are maybe 8 or 9 years old. And just coincident to your thread, I only recently completed a battery-replacement on three units: An APC BX1000 Back-UPS XS 1000, a BX1200 XS, and a Smart-UPS C1500.

For spendthriftiness, I should be most ashamed for the C1500. I think that thing cost me over $350 -- can't remember. But it was for my server.

Eventually, I discovered I could connect two PCs to the C1500, but it can only communicate with the server. The additional workstation will sleep and then hibernate. It would be nice to get such a large UPS to manage shutdowns on more than one system, but I haven't figured that out yet. [GOT ANY IDEAS?!?]

So let's get down to the dollars and cents. I may have ordered my batteries from one other source, but this is the one I now use exclusively:

RefurbUPS

The two-battery replacement kit for the C1500 cost me about $50:

C1500 battery kit

The kits for the XS towers were identical, and I think I spent $30 for each kit.

So instead of just looking for bargains of $40-a-pop UPS boxes, you might want to take a more discriminating approach, figure out the VA or wattage you need (0.6 x VA), pick one or two of this or that model, and plan on . . . . buying batteries into perpetuity, or at least until the electronics in the UPS unit goes south.

 

[XavierMace]

My power isn't dirty enough for me to give any thought to a UPS for my desktop. My servers and infrastructure are all plugged into a single APC SMX2200 with a single ERM. Only brand I'd consider outside APC for that duty is Tripplite.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My power isn't dirty enough for me to give any thought to a UPS for my desktop. My servers and infrastructure are all plugged into a single APC SMX2200 with a single ERM. Only brand I'd consider outside APC for that duty is Tripplite.

Well, what is that Bad Boy? 2,200 VAC? 1,320 W?

My mild ambition is to figure out a way to shut down more than one PC connected to a single UPS with the communication link to only a single PC.

On any of the three APC units I mentioned in an earlier post, I can quite obviously power any two of my systems in this room. I'm not boasting of that, but I only recently realized it, and this includes other peripherals that are plugged to the battery-backed three-prong AC ports.

Perhaps I should invest in a unit such as yours, but these be the ones-es that I gots.

And I agree about the brands. I used Tripplites earlier in the game -- during the 90s. I stick with APC now.

 

[rchunter]

apcupsd will do it. It's pretty easy setting it up...I've got 2 servers running off of a single apc smt1500rm2u in a master/slave setup. You just have to set the slave machine to shut off sooner than the master. Also make sure your network doesn't go down or you won't be able to send the signal. In other words make sure your router/switch is on a ups also.

 

[Red Squirrel]

My power isn't dirty enough for me to give any thought to a UPS for my desktop. My servers and infrastructure are all plugged into a single APC SMX2200 with a single ERM. Only brand I'd consider outside APC for that duty is Tripplite.

Even if your power is stable there is always the chance of a flicker. That is going to be very hard on your equipment. I would still suggest getting at least a small UPS even if it can only run for like 5 minutes. We don't get power outages here that often but I still have 4 hours of battery backup, and it has come in handy at times, usually when hydro crews are doing line maintenance and need to shut down for a few hours.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Even if your power is stable there is always the chance of a flicker. That is going to be very hard on your equipment. I would still suggest getting at least a small UPS even if it can only run for like 5 minutes. We don't get power outages here that often but I still have 4 hours of battery backup, and it has come in handy at times, usually when hydro crews are doing line maintenance and need to shut down for a few hours.

^ This. My apartment complex is old (built in the 60s / 70s), and we get frequent power blips (but rarely any unscheduled outages).

 

[XavierMace]

Well, what is that Bad Boy? 2,200 VAC? 1,320 W?

2200VA.

Even if your power is stable there is always the chance of a flicker. That is going to be very hard on your equipment. I would still suggest getting at least a small UPS even if it can only run for like 5 minutes. We don't get power outages here that often but I still have 4 hours of battery backup, and it has come in handy at times, usually when hydro crews are doing line maintenance and need to shut down for a few hours.

That's classic BestBuy salesman argument right there. But 31 years of computer ownership would seems to indicate it's a non-issue. I've had flickers over the year with zero ill effect. But maybe our power is just more stable down here. I don't know.

 

[EXCellR8]

I own two Pro series units by APC and they are great. Batteries are easy to replace and I buy used enclosures all the time. I won't run more expensive hardware without them.

Turns out my house wasn't wired properly so there were times where it would kick on for no apparent reason. Since I got the power company over everything has been fine though.