JonnyBlaze
Diamond Member
there is this thing called the future. stick with your agp ports & $400 cards and see what happens next year.
you will alll be using pcie sooner or later.
you will alll be using pcie sooner or later.
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Long Live AGP
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Long Live AGP as long as no future top end card is produced for it. Its Funny when people cry about saving pennies on system upgrades when they want to buy $600 video cards. Not only that but next to AXP their isn't a Platform used today that a simple motherboard exchange can't fix. I don't care tha AGP still has enough bandwidth and niether do the manufacturers out there. Think about it why change production and Produce a card that maybe 1%-2% of the public uses when your talking about shipping hundreds of thousands of products.
There is a reason to upgrade. It is because no one will make new AGP mobos anymore. If you want support for new technology, you have to keep up and not live in the old days. Sure there may be something magical about AGP that we have yet to explore (ie: Pentium III's brilliant architecture had to go to favour p4 for a while), but that is the way technology is.
neutralizer
Lifer
Definitely, I'm not upgrading my board just to get a premium PCI-E
Considering all cards except the 7800 are agp or pcie, that's a bogus statement. The majority of the big guys cards are the lower and mid tier levels. Or in Intels case integrated.
There is nothing wrong with AGP, although manufacturers are trying to get people to see the writting on the wall.
If they ever released a 7800AGP, I would jump on it in a minute. Though the extra cost of the motherboard is something I refuse to swallow at the moment.
The only thing I have to do to play future games, is to drop to 2xAA which is my bottom line for AA settings. Once I can't run that on the highest end AGP card will I be forced to upgrade. Not a day before. My 6800GT is still a fantastic card for the settings I run. PciE really doesn't bring me much other than SLI, and using a 1280x1024 maximum resolution LCD panel isn't giving me much.
There is nothing wrong with AGP, although manufacturers are trying to get people to see the writting on the wall.
If they ever released a 7800AGP, I would jump on it in a minute. Though the extra cost of the motherboard is something I refuse to swallow at the moment.
The only thing I have to do to play future games, is to drop to 2xAA which is my bottom line for AA settings. Once I can't run that on the highest end AGP card will I be forced to upgrade. Not a day before. My 6800GT is still a fantastic card for the settings I run. PciE really doesn't bring me much other than SLI, and using a 1280x1024 maximum resolution LCD panel isn't giving me much.
linkinpark342
Member
*patiently waits for ULi*
The SLI issue is also solved with this, so the only reason I could currently think of upgrading my high-end agp to pci-e or getting crossfire in the future with ULi would be because the Avalon desktop engine will supposedly (we won't know until its out 😛) need the extra pipes pci-e provides, but even that is pretty far in the future...
That's subjective. To me, those are great.
And for the record. AXPs aren't even in the same class. You may get a AXP to possibly be as fast as a 2800, but then the 2800 is still a better value.
Possibly, but the 7800 can run FEAR with less of a problem than the 6800. A game with many shaders who can strip the power from many video cards. Plus transparency AA which kicks ass. The money will be may be better spent elsewhere, but it's still a performance increase, even when all you do is upgrade image quality.
Oh my, people are getting smarter every day 🙂
Anyone can play any current game fine at high resolutions with a 2ghz AMD XP system and a fairly fast video card (6800nu agp). Unless you want to go 300fps at 640x480, then an uprade to a fast AMD64 system is not worth it.
No use in arguing AGP VS PCI-E. If someone has an AGP system that is capable of any recent processor (xp 2400+ and up), there is no need to upgrade to PCI-E, and they only need to buy a fast agp video card to make the system run great in games.
And if you already have PCI-E, you simply have different options on what fast video card you can buy.
Saying something like this is just mean (or you're just a pci-e fanboy):
Of course, everyone will be upgrading next year or the year after that, as all of us will. that's the way computer hardware goes.
People have different needs and just because you upraded to a pci-e system doesn't mean other people need to. Hell, I just recently bought a 939 nforce3 agp motherboard and it wil be lasting me for at least another 3 years, just as my last amd xp system with a geforce2 video card did.
I got pulled into the upgrade frenzy a month or two ago and bought a 6800nu to replace my older geforce card and I actually sort of regret it 🙂 I can play all of the same games at slightly better resolutions, but to me, it's hardly worth the $150 I paid for it (When taking other video-game systems into consideration - xbox, ps2, xbox360).
But then again, I'm not biased one way or another for any certain company or technology, so I can see most things objectively (some of you guys should try this one day).
I upgraded the system that had a geforce 6800nu from an amd xp 2.2ghz to an amd 64 2.7ghz and actually get the exact same or lower 3d game benchmark scores at high resolutions (1600x1200). But of course, if you guys read a lot of reviews, you should already know that the video card is the main factor in 3d games 🙂 The sometimes lower scores have to do with my ram not running at 100% on the amd64 system (damn these weird amd64 ram multipliers).
Even SLI's 7800GTX's are severly under-powered when paired up with the fastest processors (at high resolutions with all eye-candy options on). There's no use in upgrading to the fastest processor for 3d games when you'll be eventually limited by your video card.
Enough talking, back to searching for good deals on ddr600 ram 🙂
Anyone can play any current game fine at high resolutions with a 2ghz AMD XP system and a fairly fast video card (6800nu agp). Unless you want to go 300fps at 640x480, then an uprade to a fast AMD64 system is not worth it.
No use in arguing AGP VS PCI-E. If someone has an AGP system that is capable of any recent processor (xp 2400+ and up), there is no need to upgrade to PCI-E, and they only need to buy a fast agp video card to make the system run great in games.
And if you already have PCI-E, you simply have different options on what fast video card you can buy.
Saying something like this is just mean (or you're just a pci-e fanboy):
Of course, everyone will be upgrading next year or the year after that, as all of us will. that's the way computer hardware goes.
People have different needs and just because you upraded to a pci-e system doesn't mean other people need to. Hell, I just recently bought a 939 nforce3 agp motherboard and it wil be lasting me for at least another 3 years, just as my last amd xp system with a geforce2 video card did.
I got pulled into the upgrade frenzy a month or two ago and bought a 6800nu to replace my older geforce card and I actually sort of regret it 🙂 I can play all of the same games at slightly better resolutions, but to me, it's hardly worth the $150 I paid for it (When taking other video-game systems into consideration - xbox, ps2, xbox360).
But then again, I'm not biased one way or another for any certain company or technology, so I can see most things objectively (some of you guys should try this one day).
I upgraded the system that had a geforce 6800nu from an amd xp 2.2ghz to an amd 64 2.7ghz and actually get the exact same or lower 3d game benchmark scores at high resolutions (1600x1200). But of course, if you guys read a lot of reviews, you should already know that the video card is the main factor in 3d games 🙂 The sometimes lower scores have to do with my ram not running at 100% on the amd64 system (damn these weird amd64 ram multipliers).
Even SLI's 7800GTX's are severly under-powered when paired up with the fastest processors (at high resolutions with all eye-candy options on). There's no use in upgrading to the fastest processor for 3d games when you'll be eventually limited by your video card.
Enough talking, back to searching for good deals on ddr600 ram 🙂
rbV5
Lifer
I'll likely hang on to AGP in at least some of my rigs for some time myself. I'm running PCI, AGP and PCIe graphics currently on Intel, Nvidia and ATI chipset motherboards Using Intel P2 266 through AMD64 processors.
That said, my PCIe rig was the easiest, most inexpensive and most stable build I've ever had, and all my new rigs will definately be PCIe going forward. That doesn't mean I won't want to pick up an AGP card for one of my Nforce MB's down the road, but I doubt I'll ever want something more than X850XT PE or 6800UE for one of those rigs.
That said, my PCIe rig was the easiest, most inexpensive and most stable build I've ever had, and all my new rigs will definately be PCIe going forward. That doesn't mean I won't want to pick up an AGP card for one of my Nforce MB's down the road, but I doubt I'll ever want something more than X850XT PE or 6800UE for one of those rigs.
touchmyichi
Golden Member
but why should we pay 150 dollars more for a decent motherboard if we can get the same exact preformance on our current AGP board (especially NF3 ultra users). Anyways, I'm not going to complain about AGP not being supported because it certainly is. ATI plans to have their top ends on AGP, as should Nvidia. With how many decent AGP equipped machines in existence it would be a a grave mistake to neglect it.
linkinpark342
Member
I think we can all agree that ~$90 for a new mobo is a lot cheaper then $300-$600(or however much your going to spend) to get a new mobo and video card
The point still stands that all midrange and lower chipsets are available in AGP, the only time you are FORCED to upgrade to PCI-E is extreme high end ($500+) cards, for a limited time you can even get an SLI motherboard for free with the purchase of such a card. The excuses are running short 😛 many of you are just stubborn.
I think the large point to drive how, that one could use to defend against a forced move to PciE is simply how many devices will be replaced? How many devices will end up going from either AGP or PCI to PCIE. The typical answer from most people here is 1, the video card.
Unless there are some devices that require excessive amounts of bandwidth, none come close other than save for perhaps multiple hard drive controller cards. Which is not really in the realm of the typical home user upgrade path. No current PCI devices (that I can recall) require the vast amounts of bandwidth that the PCIE spec has been designed for. What is does provide is a great buffer for years to come, as the bandwidth on PCI/AGP devices will eventually saturate their current respective busses. The PCIE bus is to accomedate that growth over the coming years, not now. I haven't seen a single all PCIE board being manufacturered, all have some "legacy" PCI slots, due to the fact the PCIE equivalent devices are just not there.
If you take out video cards out of the PCIE upgrade equation, then it leaves almost no devices that will show performance gains from moving to PCI to PCIE. You could argue that a disk controller card would have more bandwidth available, though there are very many SATA II spec drives if any. For a user looking for real disk performance would probably be better served using a PCIX slot with a SCSI based system.
PCIE gives you room to grow and currently SLI capabilities. If you don't use SLI, than there is no compelling reason to upgrade to a PCIE board. If manufacturers released an AGP based card from their high end stock, once again I would have zero reason to get a PCIE board at this current time. If they don't than I'm being forced to upgrade for the latest and greatest card. I think the past developments have shown that it is possible to create an agp card from a native PCIE card, so again I have no clue why they are trying to force an upgrade path unto the customers.
Unless there are some devices that require excessive amounts of bandwidth, none come close other than save for perhaps multiple hard drive controller cards. Which is not really in the realm of the typical home user upgrade path. No current PCI devices (that I can recall) require the vast amounts of bandwidth that the PCIE spec has been designed for. What is does provide is a great buffer for years to come, as the bandwidth on PCI/AGP devices will eventually saturate their current respective busses. The PCIE bus is to accomedate that growth over the coming years, not now. I haven't seen a single all PCIE board being manufacturered, all have some "legacy" PCI slots, due to the fact the PCIE equivalent devices are just not there.
If you take out video cards out of the PCIE upgrade equation, then it leaves almost no devices that will show performance gains from moving to PCI to PCIE. You could argue that a disk controller card would have more bandwidth available, though there are very many SATA II spec drives if any. For a user looking for real disk performance would probably be better served using a PCIX slot with a SCSI based system.
PCIE gives you room to grow and currently SLI capabilities. If you don't use SLI, than there is no compelling reason to upgrade to a PCIE board. If manufacturers released an AGP based card from their high end stock, once again I would have zero reason to get a PCIE board at this current time. If they don't than I'm being forced to upgrade for the latest and greatest card. I think the past developments have shown that it is possible to create an agp card from a native PCIE card, so again I have no clue why they are trying to force an upgrade path unto the customers.
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