Lonely and pure or together and making compromises?

Discussion in 'Politics and News' started by zsdersw, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. zsdersw

    zsdersw Lifer

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    Ideology and principles can form from each other.

    ... which will lead to the relative isolation I outlined in the OP.

    Then you've finally answered the question I asked in the OP. Thanks.
     
  2. Atreus21

    Atreus21 Diamond Member

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    Guess it took me a few minutes to get around to it.
     
  3. Moonbeam

    Moonbeam Elite Member

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    An ideology is a comprehensive system of beliefs, a philosophical system built on thought. It defines ones goals and the nature of ones actions to attain them. As such it is based on the past, the application of the past on the future. It is judgment by thought and subject to purity review. It is full of the duality of good and evil and they do not exist. There is only love that exists in the now and from which all life flows. The lover is and always acts with love that is perfect. The ideologue is asleep.
     
  4. MooseNSquirrel

    MooseNSquirrel Golden Member

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    Nope.

    Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuals, but he was a HUGE proponent of the 10 commanments, which have nothing to say about homosexuals.
     
  5. werepossum

    werepossum Lifer

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    I agree that principles are important, but I would suggest that it's time for the Boy Scouts to re-examine their policies. The vast majority of Christian churches no longer shun gays. And if the parents really know a prospective Scoutmaster - which should be a prerequisite of letting ANYONE take your children into the woods - there is no reason to suspect that gay Scoutmasters should prove more of a danger to boys than do straight Scoutmasters. (That's an educated guess since I know very few gay people, but based on the people I've seen busted for child porn/child sex I think it's a reasonably safe guess.)

    You actually think Christianity cannot be tolerant? You haven't noticed the striking paucity of churches and/or Christians murdering homosexuals?
     
  6. Matt1970

    Matt1970 Lifer

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    I am Christian and I support gays because it is one stupid ass line in a book who's content was decided on by a handful of people that makes Christians hate gays. And where did it say they must be put to death? I missed that part.
     
  7. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    Since when did you not accepting something make you intolerant, or is that a bigoted-blanket way to [wrongly] lable all Chrisitians?

    I can see why homosexuals don't mix well with reliigion in general. "You don't accept homosexuality based on your "holy book", you're intolerant"... no matter how many Christians are doctors, lawayers, cops, or perform many a civil/medical/legal service for homosexuals world-wide, without them even being aware that a religious person in doing it! :rolleyes:

    ..or is it becasue they want to dictate who's allowed to serve as preists or can get married in their churches?
     
    #32 Retro Rob, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  8. Mani

    Mani Diamond Member

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    Wow, word of God huh? Some pretty backwards shit.
     
  9. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    Woah a sec, possum.. I hope you're not saying that tolerance is linked to not killing people.

    As long as they aren't trying to force, via law, their views on you then they are indeed tolerant. To be tolerant doesn't mean letting openly and active homosexuals be an active part of and get married in their Church, either. Some Churches have standards, and that's actually commendable. It's not a discrimination thing, though it's normally championed that way.
     
  10. nehalem256

    nehalem256 Lifer

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    It is really a complicated question. If we are talking about say the correct tax rate for 1%ers this seems like something that can be compromised on. Saying that taxes on the rich cannot be above 35.145% seems like a rather silly stance.

    However, if we are to look at the idea of Gay Boy Scout leaders as from the OP. What exactly would be a compromise position on that issue? Allowing bi-sexual Scout leaders? :confused:

    Simple put there are some issues on which compromise is legitimately impossible.
     
  11. nehalem256

    nehalem256 Lifer

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    So was he suppose to go through the OT line-by-line and reiterate every law?

    Also, as far as I know Jesus had nothing to say about pedophilia either. Does that make pedophilia okay?
     
  12. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    Many people think that God 'changed' from Testament to Testament. Utterly false statement.

    The Jews were well-versed in the Mosaic Law and, as you've correctly stated, Jesus really didn't have to reinterate every law code. They had copies.
     
  13. MagnusTheBrewer

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    I recommend you read the book for yourself.
    Matthew 7:1-3

    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
     
  14. zsdersw

    zsdersw Lifer

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    Your sarcasm meter should be going off like nuts with Thock's post.
     
  15. Mani

    Mani Diamond Member

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    Love it when the writers of a book full of judgments instruct people not to judge.
     
  16. ivwshane

    ivwshane Lifer

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    As an American I'd rather settle for compromise (and apparently I'm the only one). Why? Because adhering to ones principals means you cannot accept new information that may go against your principals. You essentially are saying you are ok being ignorant. Secondly, this country has a history of making compromises and while not perfect it did allow us to move forward. Lastly, having more people to cater to also means you have more people to pool ideas from, a diversity of opinions leads to better solutions.
     
  17. JulesMaximus

    JulesMaximus No Lifer

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    Honestly, I didn't care for the religious aspect of the boyscouts so when my son didn't want to sign up for another year (we did it for 2 years) I didn't put any pressure on him to stick with it. BTW, he plays basketball too and I have pressured him to stick with that. Lest anyone think I don't push him enough.

    The fact that one of the troop leaders was molesting his daughters made the decision a slam dunk.
     
  18. Wreckem

    Wreckem Diamond Member

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  19. Wreckem

    Wreckem Diamond Member

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    Yes they can, but the should no longer get funds from state/local govt if they discriminate, religious or not.
     
  20. PokerGuy

    PokerGuy Lifer

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    There are areas where compromise is possible, and there are areas where it is not. If the price for standing up for your principles is that you end up without support from others, so be it, then that's the price you have to pay.

    Of course, there's also nothing wrong with re-evaluating your own principles to make sure you believe them and want to stand by them.

    It's very similar to when people call for the church to "update it's beliefs or get marginalized". That's plain stupid. If you believe something, you stand by it, and if nobody else wants to join you in that belief, that's fine. You don't change your beliefs to suit someone elses opinion.
     
  21. zsdersw

    zsdersw Lifer

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    Well, there is no consequence if someone merely disagrees with and doesn't share your personal beliefs. There are, however, consequences to having and broadcasting fringe beliefs. Organizations like the Boy Scouts and various churches depend on money. If these organizations face significant reductions in funding because they don't reevaluate their beliefs, well, that's a cost that must be endured. The question becomes: what is the cost of standing by unpopular or scantly supported beliefs and is it worth paying or is reevaluation of those beliefs justifiable in order to keep the organization afloat?

    Personal beliefs can also be costly. We may find ourselves with few or no friends and have an extremely difficult time finding a mate and family relationships can be strained. Beliefs can cost us financially, too. The question we must ask ourselves is whether we can justify having those beliefs.
     
    #46 zsdersw, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  22. werepossum

    werepossum Lifer

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    Well, tolerance certainly starts with not killing people. Hopefully it goes a bit beyond that minimum. ;)

    I agree with your definition of tolerance. Churches should be free to not accept gays if they want, as long as it's not government discriminating.
     
  23. alzan

    alzan Diamond Member

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    Perhaps because most Christian/Hindu/Muslim/Jewish doctors, lawyers, etc. are able to separate practicing their beliefs from performing their occupational duties. Does that make those that can't/won't separate their beliefs from their jobs intolerant? Not necessarily although on an individual basis you'd find a significant amount that are. Intolerance is borne of fear and ignorance, and there's more than enough of either of those.

    Dictate who can serve as priests or who can get married in a given church? I'm really not sure where you're getting this from but I do see it as a recurring theme in your replies. It's anecdotal but representative: the church where my wife and I were married has always been accepting of and open to LGBT individuals and couples. The individuals/couples who attend/have attended did not demand a louder voice then anyone else in the selection process for priests nor did they work to put homosexuals on the selection committee. In the two years leading up to our marriage there was no push by the LGBT members to not allow heterosexual couples to be married in the church nor has there been any push in the years since. This idea that there's some concerted effort by the LGBT community and their supporters to control church decisions of priest selection and/or allowable marriages within the church is so much bovine scatology.

    Back to the OP; as a private organization the BSA can set their own policies. I feel as time goes on they will be marginalized because of their stance on this as well as for other reasons. Can Scout leaders keep their sexual orientations to themselves and still lead, inspire and help guide young boys through the journey to young adulthood? Yes; my leader kept his orientation to himself for 30+ years; the things I learned about sex when in Boy Scouts and Explorers I learned from my fellow troop members and they had nothing to do with homosexuality.
     
    #48 alzan, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  24. nehalem256

    nehalem256 Lifer

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    No matter how much you may want it to be opposition to SSM is not a fringe belief.

    But that raising an interesting question for you. What do you feel is the compromise solution to same-sex marriage?
     
  25. shira

    shira Diamond Member

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    You've conveniently overlooked . . .

    (Leviticus 20:10; cf. Deuteronomy 22:22).

    So adultery is just as bad as homosexuality. How come Christians hate gays but have no problem with adulterous heterosexuals?