LOL @ those "you need 1GW to run powerful graphics card"

[DaFinn]

So,

I recently got a HP Media Center PC (stop laughing, my company bought it )
I maxed the config out w. Q6600/ 4Gt DDR2/ 1TB (2x 500Gt) HDD, etc...
Only downside was, that GF 8600GT was max choice for that particular pc.

So I made a thread asking for recommendations, and got a helpful link to check if my PS can handle it. Turns out, I have a 300W PSU in this system.

Speaking to some "in the know", they suggested definately to get 8800GT/GTS or 4850. AND a new min. 600W PSU!!! This I also saw in most threads here.

Well, I didin wanna start changing PSU, just wanted a better graphics. I had my mind set at getting a silent 9600GT and hoping my PSU will run it. So wenturing into a PC Store near me,
I came across an offer on 8800GTS 512Mb... for same price as 9600GT :S... What to do.
So I bought the damn 8800GTS, plugged it in to my PC... AND IT WORKED.

So, so far i have tested HL2 with all maxed @ 1680x1050, COD4 1680x1050 all maxed and running 3Dmark 06 for 20 mins. With all this stuff running GREAT on my 300W PSU.
At max, the wattage it draws from the wall is 268W. Ok, so near the 300W max CONTINUOUS power rating of my PSU.

Another thing, the max Amp on my 12V rail (yes, single 12V rail) is 18A. Thats well below the 26A REQUIRED in nvidia specs.

So this just as information, for all those planning to buy new graphics, but not sure about if their PSU can handle it. I know, that allthough generic PSU, brands tend to use at least somewhat quality PSUs. As is apparently the case here. Propably rating them below "real specs".

My advice, test before you buy. In modern pci-e based config, you most likely have a PSU already that can handle it.

For those who come screaming "quad SLI", this thread is not for such ppl. You want ludicrous graphics, fine, go get your own power station.

 

[Bateluer]

Both ATI and Nvidia inflate their PSU requirements because of the large numbers of trashy PSUs residing in PCs. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc, usually don't put quality PSUs in their systems.

In your case, I'm glad the card works for you. Consider this though, its still a good bet that your HP power supply is of a lower quality than say Seasonic, for example. These units will wear out quickly, even faster when placed under stress.

The two parts I never skimp or cut corners on are my power supply and my motherboard. Good luck to you though.

 

[JPB]

Come back in a month or two and tell us if it is still powering your system.

I had a 250 watt in one of my PC's before and my X800Pro killed it in a little over a month. And the same thing happened when a 250 watt Delta was killed by a X1800XL.

Give it time, you'll see :thumbsup:

 

[Brunnis]

Well, to be fair, it is entirely possible that the PSU blows soon. 268W at the wall translates to an approximate 214W load on the PSU (assuming ~80% efficiency). While this looks good compared to the max output rating of 300W, the power on the 12V rail is probably the most important to look at. At 18A it can deliver 216W and since modern computers pull their power mainly from the 12V rail, you're probably close to maxing it out currently.

I'm not saying that it won't work fine for a long time, but inless the PSU is of good quality, it may not work for very long.

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Both ATI and Nvidia inflate their PSU requirements because of the large numbers of trashy PSUs residing in PCs. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc, usually don't put quality PSUs in their systems.

In your case, I'm glad the card works for you. Consider this though, its still a good bet that your HP power supply is of a lower quality than say Seasonic, for example. These units will wear out quickly, even faster when placed under stress.

The two parts I never skimp or cut corners on are my power supply and my motherboard. Good luck to you though.

Well, to be honest, I did pick also an Antec True Power 430W psu that was on offer. This one has 3 12v rails, and well exceeds the specs required.

I will be putting this PSU on at some stage.

The main point was, all who recommended me something, recommended like 2x the power I would really need. If this "crappy" HP 300W PSU (made by Bestec) can run it just fine, changes are a quality ~350W PSU will do it too....

 

[bunnyfubbles]

1GW = 1,000,000W...

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
1GW = 1,000,000W...

:laugh:

 

[Qbah]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
1GW = 1,000,000W...

That would be 1MW 1GW is 1,000,000,000W

As for the OP, it may run for you now, but I'm fairly sure that PSU will die very quick. High load on a low quality PSU = quick death. Just hope the PSU won't kill something else once it dies eventually.

In my case I'd say I am pretty well balanced with my rig. It's always better to get a somewhat bigger PSU, a smaller load in terms of total power available strains it less. Obviously getting a 1GW PSU is overkill

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
1GW = 1,000,000W...

*sigh*... it was a sad attempt at sarcasm... which obviously did not go too well since you had the need to clarify this... Maybe I should've said 1JW (as in jiggawatt)...

 

[DaFinn]

Also, someone tell me this:

If PSU is rated at "max continuous power of 300W", shouldn't it last just as long whether you use it at ~200W or 300W, as long as you dont exceed the max continuous power? Surely it has been then designed to operate @ 300W. So why would it last less than intended, if I run at 300W rather than at 200W???

 

[JPB]

1.21 jiggawatts !!

 

[Creig]

I installed a 3870 in my friend's brand new Dell Vostro 200 back in December and that only had a 300w PS in it and he's been 100% stable to this day. You CAN get away with using a lower output PS, you just aren't guaranteed to be able to. Just be smart about it. My friend's PC was pretty much as basic as you could get. Dual-core, single optical drive, single hard drive, one case fan, one CPU fan. That was it. So he definitely had the available headroom to install a reasonable aftermarket video card.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: DaFinn
Also, someone tell me this:

If PSU is rated at "max continuous power of 300W", shouldn't it last just as long whether you use it at ~200W or 300W, as long as you dont exceed the max continuous power? Surely it has been then designed to operate @ 300W. So why would it last less than intended, if I run at 300W rather than at 200W???

The problem is that the PS was designed to run at a load of 300W balanced across all rails -- 3.3V, 5V and 12V. Modern systems pull power almost exclusively through the 12V rail so in essence you're pulling 268W through a rail designed to carry 216W max (18A*12V).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DaFinn

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Both ATI and Nvidia inflate their PSU requirements because of the large numbers of trashy PSUs residing in PCs. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc, usually don't put quality PSUs in their systems.

In your case, I'm glad the card works for you. Consider this though, its still a good bet that your HP power supply is of a lower quality than say Seasonic, for example. These units will wear out quickly, even faster when placed under stress.

The two parts I never skimp or cut corners on are my power supply and my motherboard. Good luck to you though.

Well, to be honest, I did pick also an Antec True Power 430W psu that was on offer. This one has 3 12v rails, and well exceeds the specs required.

I will be putting this PSU on at some stage.

The main point was, all who recommended me something, recommended like 2x the power I would really need. If this "crappy" HP 300W PSU (made by Bestec) can run it just fine, changes are a quality ~350W PSU will do it too....

Sure it can work

Most people here overstate power requirements

However, a capable PS is like "insurance"

you don't need it till something goes wrong

good luck .. and i see you ARE upgrading your PS
:thumbsup:

 

[Brunnis]

Originally posted by: Denithor
so in essence you're pulling 268W through a rail designed to carry 216W max (18A*12V).

No, it's the output that counts, not what's drawn from the wall socket. With an approximate 80% efficiency, that translates into roughly 214W. It's still on the very edge of what the PSU can do.

 

[Peelback79]

Originally posted by: JPB
1.21 jiggawatts !!

Now all we have to do is get his computer up to 88 miles an hour!

 

[udneekgnim]

having headroom is a whole lot safer than flirting with the ceiling of a PSU

The people recommending 1kW PSUs usually only do so for CF / SLI video card combos

 

[Bill Kunert]

Run Hardware Monitor while you have the computer loaded and see what the 12 volt rail does. It will record the high and low readings.

 

[QuixoticOne]

Read some of the articles on PSU tests from places like anandtech, tom's hardware, JonnyGuru's old site, et. al.

Some of the cheap / low quality units have been known to literally catch fire.

Many of them will blow fuses and just stop working at even 30% less than their supposedly rated loads, or worse.

Many of them don't even meet the voltage stability specifications for ripple, droop, noise, whatever.

These are the lowest of the low end PSUs, straight from China. Yeah, you know, think of, say, poison toothpaste, lead paint in baby toys, poison pet food with plastic in it because plastic is cheaper than protein, that sort of thing.

Design a "350W" PSU, figure out that you can make $0.50/unit more if you slap a "450W" label on it, and away she goes as a 450W labelled unit.

I'm not saying that ALL PSU vendors do such shenanigans, but MANY have been PROVEN to do so on models that are very common in the market. They flat out LIE frequently about specifications, UL/TUV/CE approvals and safety ratings, etc.

See if you can find the "Three independent 12V rails" on an Antec Trio, go ahead, I dare you. Read JG's review of the Trio-650. They're NOT split rails. They go right to the same spot on the PCB. Big lie.

Yes, it is true that most PCs run at an average sustained under LOAD power of between 225W to 300W or so with some of them more into the 370W range with higher end. Thus an 800W supply is way overkill for most systems... But 500W or 650W isn't THAT much headroom over 300W, and thus it is really recommended because the higher "marketing watt" units usually have better capacity, better quality (maybe), better headroom against fudged specifications, better aging tolerance, more connectors of the types you really want, etc.

Ever heard of the big deal on capacitors failing on Motherboards? Well what do you think a big electrolytic capacitor in your PSU does when it starts leaking / failing? Not good. Way worse in a way than the situation on the M/B except for that the M/B is more expensive and harder to repair.
It is very common for them to use capacitors that are about 1/2 the size/rating that they SHOULD be in PSUs, BTW.

I'd produce a bunch of links but I think you get the point without exhaustive case studies, so here's just one pretty representative test of several budget type PSUs:


Inadequate and Deceptive Product Labeling: Comparison of 21 Power Supplies : Full Load And Overload - Power Supply Units Pushed To The Limits
http://www.tomshardware.com/re...duct-labeling,536.html

Only the lab test tells the truth - even if the maximum load is specified as 300 watts, the power supply often "gives up the ghost" long before reaching this load. Some manufacturers of power supplies apparently assume that computer users will never need maximum power from their power supply.

We've covered this topic before in a rant , and have now decided to tackle this volatile subject with testing of 21 different, high-end power supplies in the THG lab in Munich, Germany. In spite of the high end-user retail prices, our lab technicians were surprised by the test results. No fewer than 6 power supplies struggled under full load: 3 of the candidates simply went up in smoke, while the other 3 shut down prematurely. The "black sheep" among all the test participants was Maxtron, with the TOP-520P4. According to the manufacturer's specifications, this power supply is represented to be capable of withstanding 520 watts - divided up over the corresponding voltage ranges. However, in our test, it ceased working at 446 watts. Completely dead!

For instance, the Coba power supply goes by the name of PS-350S, with 350 watts being the maximum power according to the user manual, the packaging and the manufacturer specifications; however, the specification according to the power supply model identification sticker is 325 watts. We also found other models that were not capable of generating the power specified by the manufacturer. For example, in terms of power, the Leadman LP-6100 E and the Task TK-930TX can only manage about 30% less than the manufacturer's specifications.

Tests performed on 3 other power supplies were downright dangerous: the models from Maxtron, Noise Magic and PC World seized up, with a loud bang, even below their nominal rating, or shortly after reaching full load. The outcome from this will result in substantial damage to the other components inside the computer, and in a worst-case scenario, it could also result in a fire occurring inside the computer.

Let's not beat about the bush here. The 21 power supplies we tested are rated by their manufacturers at between 300 and 520 watts. Our tests showed, however, that only 15 of them actually met their specifications. We failed 5 units.

The models from Leadman, Maxtron, Noise Magic, PC-World and Task could not meet the power ratings specified by their manufacturers. The voltage of the Task TK-930TX was, on occasion, sufficiently below the specified value to cause our system to crash; not only that, this model didn't even deliver its rated 300-watt output. With a 200-watt load, the Task's +12 V rail dropped to 9 volts. We also measured some curious fluctuations in the output voltage. After about 7 minutes, the voltage dropped to 5.8 V. System crashes are pre-programmed into this power supply. The Leadman LP-6100 E does, at least, have an automatic cutout that switches power off before the capacitors can explode.

Burned-Out Electronics
Our attempt to test the Noise Magic power supply had disastrous consequences. This is a modified Enermax unit fitted with a Papst fan. It stopped working after one minute. When we tried to switch it back on again after a suitable delay, it simply burned out. The Maxtron TOP-520P4 and the PCW Whisper Power "gave up the ghost" with a loud bang!, well below their rated output. We were unable to revive them from the dead, because their electronics were damaged in the process. Overly-optimistic output figures from Maxtron - this 520-watt rated power supply could only deliver a maximum 446 watts in our tests! At 304 watts, the PCW Whisper Power was 10% short of its manufacturer's rating. These three test candidates with burned-out electronics were not evaluated.

 

[ajaidevsingh]

This is my experiance with PSU's and GPU's:-

Had a new Cooler master 500W smps, i also had 2 HDD's and 2 dvd drives, etc... Bought a new 2900 Pro every thing worked well then after about 3-4 weeks i got really odd shut downs and artifacts etc...

I was thinking 2900 ohh must be hot then later on after i investigated i found out that the SMPS was underpowered and so as not to run in any more such problems i bought a 1200W "so called" SMPS which is keeping me happy...!!


Also dont go for the power go for the label...!!!

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: Bill Kunert
Run Hardware Monitor while you have the computer loaded and see what the 12 volt rail does. It will record the high and low readings.

No, don't run any software to see what any rail does. Use a digital multi-meter if you want correct voltage readings.

***Edit***

I bet you $5 that you cannot run this program along with FUR simultaneously.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=197835

...and not have your computer turn off or PSU burst into a flames(or just simply pop).

 

[Golgatha]

I lol at 1000w power supplies too for single or even dual GPU systems as a minimum spec, but your system is on the threshold of being a fire hazard.

Personally I don't like to exceed 75% of the wattage needed. Right now my rig pulls ~370w when it's playing a game. I have a PC Power and Cooling 610w, which has 49A or 588 watts available on the 12V rail. I like to have at least a bit of headroom.

Again...FIRE HAZARD!!! Get yourself that 430w Earthwatts pronto!!!

 

[Piuc2020]

While I agree big wattage PSUs are overkill, yours is pushing it. Change it as soon as possible.

 

[sonnygdude]

Originally posted by: DaFinn
Also, someone tell me this:

If PSU is rated at "max continuous power of 300W", shouldn't it last just as long whether you use it at ~200W or 300W, as long as you dont exceed the max continuous power? Surely it has been then designed to operate @ 300W. So why would it last less than intended, if I run at 300W rather than at 200W???

Even assuming their advertising is true, what temperature did they rate max continuous power at, and what temperature is it running in your system? Vendor brag sheets ALWAYS lie (although hopefully not Corsair's - I read somewhere that they do all their rating at 50 deg C, which is why I bought the 520HX)

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: sonnygdude

Originally posted by: DaFinn
Also, someone tell me this:

If PSU is rated at "max continuous power of 300W", shouldn't it last just as long whether you use it at ~200W or 300W, as long as you dont exceed the max continuous power? Surely it has been then designed to operate @ 300W. So why would it last less than intended, if I run at 300W rather than at 200W???

Even assuming their advertising is true, what temperature did they rate max continuous power at, and what temperature is it running in your system? Vendor brag sheets ALWAYS lie (although hopefully not Corsair's - I read somewhere that they do all their rating at 50 deg C, which is why I bought the 520HX)

Exactly. Not only are cheaper PSU's rated for wattage at 25C, but they are also not 80% efficient. Realistically that PSU is maxed beyond what it was ever capable of doing. Like others have said, I'm sure it can power your system just fine for now, but it's going to pop in no time.