LOL So much for Apple's touch ID "security"

[openwheel]

You do have ten toes and ten fingers. Be creative.

I'd like to see you demonstrate using the iPhone 5S and any finger other than thumbs. It's hilarious reading your justifications.

 

[openwheel]

......

Because you don't want to use it anymore?

So don't use it.

Bingo!

 

[openwheel]

I feel like people are taking this too seriously. Did Google get this much flak for its facial recognition unlock?

that was gimmicky too.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Honestly, this implementation is far more useful than:

- facial unlock
- always on mic

don't like it? don't use it.

 

[openwheel]

what is "always on mic"?

If you meant MotoX's implimentation of voice activation then you must be smoking Apple crack. It's way more convenient and clever than this TouchID gimmick. Although coming from you, I am not surprised.


Warning for coming close to violating the "no calling people fanboy" rule
Please keep it impersonal, Openwheel. You are entitled to your opinion regarding the iPhone 5S fingerprint scanner but please don't insult people for having a differing opinion.

Moderator PM

 

[Eug]

^^^ That's pretty amusing, given your endless harping about security.

The Verge review of Moto X:

The touchless controls are rendered nearly useless if you have any kind of security lock on your phone. You can still use it to make calls, but everything else requires that you unlock your phone, which requires that you pick it up and interact with it… meaning you just defeated the whole idea of "touchless controls."

 

[openwheel]

like it other guy said, don't use it if you don't like it.

I myself don't have any passcode or lock on my phone, so I am perfectly fine using touchless control.

Touchless control is not a security feature, you are talking apples and oranges.

 

[MrX8503]

I'd like to see you demonstrate using the iPhone 5S and any finger other than thumbs. It's hilarious reading your justifications.

My justifications are hilarious? Dude you're on another world. You're on a vendetta against Apple at this point.

You can use your index finger for touch ID.

 

[openwheel]

I don't care for Apple products and I don't try to hide it. What vendetta?

So since you didn't understand my previous post, I'll say it again. I'd like to see you demonstrate using your pinky, or index finger on TouchID. Then tell me just how convenient that would be. It's hilarious, because no sane person would use any finger other than the thumbs.

It's a gimmick, face it. It's obvious, but a few people just can't see thru the rosie glasses. Same people, over and over in these threads. Sometime I wonder if couple of them work for Apple's viral marketing department.

Samsung S4 has tons of gimmicks too. What's the big deal? Nothing negative can be expressed against your beloved brand?

 

[alkemyst]

My justifications are hilarious? Dude you're on another world. You're on a vendetta against Apple at this point.

You can use your index finger for touch ID.

If one studies today's biomechanics and ergonomics, the kids/teens of today are using their thumbs more than index fingers for many things like pushing door bells and elevator buttons.

 

[mikegg]

that was gimmicky too.

Smart phones, PCs, Macs, Chrome OS, Google search are all gimmicky in my opinion. My ex-gf was definitely gimmicky.

 

[ChronoReverse]

http://arstechnica.com/security/201...-all-it-was-trivial-touch-id-hacker-tells-ars

Hmm, it seems much easier than I thought it'd be. Still doesn't mean it's not a convenient thing to have though.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I don't care for Apple products and I don't try to hide it. What vendetta?

So since you didn't understand my previous post, I'll say it again. I'd like to see you demonstrate using your pinky, or index finger on TouchID. Then tell me just how convenient that would be. It's hilarious, because no sane person would use any finger other than the thumbs.

It's a gimmick, face it. It's obvious, but a few people just can't see thru the rosie glasses. Same people, over and over in these threads. Sometime I wonder if couple of them work for Apple's viral marketing department.

Samsung S4 has tons of gimmicks too. What's the big deal? Nothing negative can be expressed against your beloved brand?

And? I find always on mic to be even more gimmicky. Please, don't tell me how much Siri bashing there was when it first came out about how ridiculous it was to use Siri in public. If anything, always on listening is also ridiculous because... well it's always listening. You already have the option to use Google Now, is there a reason that it needs to be always on given how ridiculous people painted Siri?

Furthermore, it's a battery drainer. GSMArena found 12-13% battery difference with touchless control turned off.

I do think that there is SOME use for touchless control. Driving could benefit, but even then there's already Google Now, which takes 1 additional button to activate. I don't see all the Siri and Google Now users clamoring for touchless control. It's nice to have, but nothing to insult other users over.

I've never really complained about these gimmicky features. Like others said, don't like it? Don't use it. The same goes with the fingerprint scanner. Unless the gimmicks are causing bloat like TouchWiz, I don't really mind.

 

[Eug]

Yeah, it's pretty funny to see some guy scream hard about bad security, when that person admits to not using any security at all, and actually promotes a technology that encourages people not to use a security measure.

 

[Red Storm]

And? I find always on mic to be even more gimmicky. Please, don't tell me how much Siri bashing there was when it first came out about how ridiculous it was to use Siri in public. If anything, always on listening is also ridiculous because... well it's always listening. You already have the option to use Google Now, is there a reason that it needs to be always on given how ridiculous people painted Siri?

Furthermore, it's a battery drainer. GSMArena found 12-13% battery difference with touchless control turned off.

I do think that there is SOME use for touchless control. Driving could benefit, but even then there's already Google Now, which takes 1 additional button to activate. I don't see all the Siri and Google Now users clamoring for touchless control. It's nice to have, but nothing to insult other users over.

I've never really complained about these gimmicky features. Like others said, don't like it? Don't use it. The same goes with the fingerprint scanner. Unless the gimmicks are causing bloat like TouchWiz, I don't really mind.

Touchless controls are what Siri and Google Now need IMHO. Having to press a button to activate voice controls is so very counter-intuitive. It took us until the Moto X to finally get there.

 

[MrX8503]

I don't care for Apple products and I don't try to hide it. What vendetta?

So since you didn't understand my previous post, I'll say it again. I'd like to see you demonstrate using your pinky, or index finger on TouchID. Then tell me just how convenient that would be. It's hilarious, because no sane person would use any finger other than the thumbs.

It's a gimmick, face it. It's obvious, but a few people just can't see thru the rosie glasses. Same people, over and over in these threads. Sometime I wonder if couple of them work for Apple's viral marketing department.

Samsung S4 has tons of gimmicks too. What's the big deal? Nothing negative can be expressed against your beloved brand?

You said its not possible to change your fingerprint and my rebuttal is that you have ten fingers. Using your index finger isn't as convenient as your thumb, but it's certainly not crazy.

The difference between Apple and Samsung is that Samsung's features are gimmicks because their features don't work and people don't use them.

Edit: Don't forget Samsung's 8GB of bloat/features. I'm sure their features are comparable to Touch ID. /s

 

[Oyeve]

You said its not possible to change your fingerprint and my rebuttal is that you have ten fingers. Using your index finger isn't as convenient as your thumb, but it's certainly not crazy.

The difference between Apple and Samsung is that Samsung's features are gimmicks because their features don't work and people don't use them.

Edit: Don't forget Samsung's 8GB of bloat/features. I'm sure their features are comparable to Touch ID. /s

You accuse others of having vendettas against apple and yet you are one of the biggest offenders against samsung. Samsungs "bloat" is actually useful to many users as is apples touch id. Dont be a hypocrite. Samsung may have a lot of bloat but a lot of it is very useful. hell, apple hasnt even implemented half the useful stuff as other makers have so dont be knocking samsung and joining the ranks of the haters. Or are you there already?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

You accuse others of having vendettas against apple and yet you are one of the biggest offenders against samsung. Samsungs "bloat" is actually useful to many users as is apples touch id. Dont be a hypocrite. Samsung may have a lot of bloat but a lot of it is very useful. hell, apple hasnt even implemented half the useful stuff as other makers have so dont be knocking samsung and joining the ranks of the haters. Or are you there already?

The thing is a lot of the S-apps I saw during the GS4 launch was available through Google Apps functionality already. You can get similar functionality through other apps.

Furthermore, there's downsides to TouchWiz. Someone previously said that the GS3 stock appears smoother than the GS4 because its SO bloated. I'm not doubting that there aren't benefits to TouchWiz, but I'm also quite sure that it's bloated. You should be able to achieve good functionality without overloading the OS with apps that slow the device down.

Touchless controls are what Siri and Google Now need IMHO. Having to press a button to activate voice controls is so very counter-intuitive. It took us until the Moto X to finally get there.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it's less useful than a fingerprint scanner IMO. People unlock their phones more than a dozen times a day, and sometimes just to check the time, what's going on, if they have new messages, etc. Facebook claims its over 100 times. Each of those 100 times can be made easier through a scan. I might use touchless controls once or twice a week tops to make conference calls. And even then it's not like Touchless Control will enter my conference ID # once I've dialed in. I likely still have to punch in the numbers manually.

 

[openwheel]

And? I find always on mic to be even more gimmicky. Please, don't tell me how much Siri bashing there was when it first came out about how ridiculous it was to use Siri in public. If anything, always on listening is also ridiculous because... well it's always listening. You already have the option to use Google Now, is there a reason that it needs to be always on given how ridiculous people painted Siri?

Furthermore, it's a battery drainer. GSMArena found 12-13% battery difference with touchless control turned off.

I do think that there is SOME use for touchless control. Driving could benefit, but even then there's already Google Now, which takes 1 additional button to activate. I don't see all the Siri and Google Now users clamoring for touchless control. It's nice to have, but nothing to insult other users over.

I've never really complained about these gimmicky features. Like others said, don't like it? Don't use it. The same goes with the fingerprint scanner. Unless the gimmicks are causing bloat like TouchWiz, I don't really mind.

Well if you don't see the convenience of actual hands free operation of your phone, then there is no need for further discussion between you and myself. I don't remember any Siri bashing and perhaps you should get over that now, it's been couple of years.

 

[MrX8503]

You accuse others of having vendettas against apple and yet you are one of the biggest offenders against samsung. Samsungs "bloat" is actually useful to many users as is apples touch id. Dont be a hypocrite. Samsung may have a lot of bloat but a lot of it is very useful. hell, apple hasnt even implemented half the useful stuff as other makers have so dont be knocking samsung and joining the ranks of the haters. Or are you there already?

No, I don't go down rabbit holes into obscurity to prove a point. What I say is true.

Its useful to many users? Ok I'm sure it is.

 

[openwheel]

LOL you just stretch the "truth" to prove a bias opinion. Again, I'd like to see you use your pinky on TouchID and demonstrate how ergonomically convenient it is.

 

[Eug]

This mobile security guy goes through the entire process to fake-out TouchID, and concludes those screaming about its flaws are barking up the wrong tree, because it's a royal PITA to hack it. It's an interesting read though because he outlines the exact process - the PITA part - and also has suggestions for its future use, specifically combination TouchID and passcode use for banking and other transactions.

I really like his suggestion about banking security (which I did NOT quote below). His suggestion for one scenario was to use the fingerprint scanner to launch the banking application, and then use a secondary passcode to complete transaction. Better than just a password and better than just a fingerprint.

However, for just the regular phone access, the fingerprint alone is sufficient... unless you're 007 or work for the CIA.

Why I Hacked Apple’s TouchID, And Still Think It Is Awesome.

By now, the news is out —TouchID was hacked. In truth, none of us really expected otherwise. Fingerprint biometrics use a security credential that gets left behind everywhere you go on everything you touch.

The fact that fingerprints can be lifted is not really up for debate— CSI technicians have been doing it for decades. The big question with TouchID was whether or not Apple could implement a design that would resist attacks using lifted fingerprints, or whether they would join the long line of manufacturers who had tried but failed to implement a completely secure solution.

Does this mean TouchID is flawed and that it should be avoided? The answer to that isn’t as simple as you might think. Yes, TouchID has flaws, and yes, it’s possible to exploit those flaws and unlock an iPhone. But, the reality is these flaws are not something that the average consumer should worry about. Why? Because exploiting them was anything but trivial.

---

Practically, an attack is still a little bit in the realm of a John le Carré novel. It is certainly not something your average street thief would be able to do, and even then, they would have to get lucky. Don’t forget you only get five attempts before TouchID rejects all fingerprints requiring a PIN code to unlock it. However, let’s be clear, TouchID is unlikely to withstand a targeted attack. A dedicated attacker with time and resources to observe his victim and collect data, is probably not going to see TouchID as much of a challenge. Luckily this isn’t a threat that many of us face.

TouchID is not a “strong” security control. It is a “convenient” security control. Today just over 50 percent of users have a PIN on their smartphones at all, and the number one reason people give for not using the PIN is that it’s inconvenient. TouchID is strong enough to protect users from casual or opportunistic attackers (with one concern I will cover later on) and it is substantially better than nothing.

---

Fingerprint security will help protect you against the three biggest threats facing smartphone users today:

Fingerprint security will protect your data from a street thief that grabs your phone.

Fingerprint security will protect you in the event you drop/forget/misplace your phone.

Fingerprint security could protect you against phishing attacks (if Apple allows it)

---

If implemented correctly, TouchID enabled two-factor authentication in enterprise applications could be a good defense against phishing attacks by attackers like the Syrian Electronic Army. You can trick a user into giving up any kind of passcode but, it is much harder to trick a user into giving up his or her fingerprints from the other side of the world.

Despite being hacked, TouchID is an exciting step forwards for smartphone security and I stand by our earlier blog on fingerprint security. Hacking TouchID gave me respect for its design and some ideas about how we can make it strong moving forward. I hope that Apple will keep in touch with the security industry as TouchID faces its inevitable growing pains. There is plenty of room for improvement, and an exciting road ahead of us if we do this right.

 

[MrX8503]

EDIT: thanks for the post Eug. A lot of posters here have been trying to say that it's too much effort to bypass touch ID as well.

LOL you just stretch the "truth" to prove a bias opinion. Again, I'd like to see you use your pinky on TouchID and demonstrate how ergonomically convenient it is.

Where? Do index fingers not exist? Sorry.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Well if you don't see the convenience of actual hands free operation of your phone, then there is no need for further discussion between you and myself. I don't remember any Siri bashing and perhaps you should get over that now, it's been couple of years.

Are you kidding me? I never said there isn't convenience in hands free operation. I agree there is. But at the same time maybe you can uncover your eyes and realize that fingerprint reading is easy too instead of dealing with a passcode unlock.

If Google or Samsung pushed something like this out, you would be giving them a round of applause. Of course it's Apple, so you expose your bias and flame them all you want.

 

[openwheel]

EDIT: thanks for the post Eug. A lot of posters here have been trying to say that it's too much effort to bypass touch ID as well.



Where? Do index fingers not exist? Sorry.

So you would use your index fingerprint to unlock your phone 50 times a day?