LOL So much for Apple's touch ID "security"

[MrX8503]

This finger print nonesense is just gimmicky. Heck I've had finger print scanners on work laptops forever, they work, but trust me, passwords are better.

Lol they're not the same.

The thing is, if you were going to physically use the phone in the first place, then swipe or passcode is NOT a hassle at all. The finger print scanner is just gimmicky in that regard. Having to awkwardly reposition my thumb on the home button is a lot more work than just a simple passcode which has become habitual anyway. I can understand if the finger print scanner is located on each side of the phone where my thumbs natually rest.

For a driver, the hands free "OK Google Now" command is much more helpful from a driver's point of view.

Pass code IS annoying. Touch ID can read your print at various angles.

 

[openwheel]

Lol they're not the same.

I forgot, one is ultra high end, designed by Apple in California, hand made in Italy, showcased in Paris and calibrated in Switzerland.

The other is designed in Taiwan and made in China.

 

[Oyeve]

Lol they're not the same.

LOL they are. My HP laptop from 3 years ago took a print of my finger prints. it even showed it. Its not as fast as the 5s but the underlying tech is the same. So stop being a shill. You are feeding into the other idiots idiocy and are not coming off any better.


Anyway, its a good fast tech, like it or hate it it does have some uses. Its GOT to be better than face recognition. My son always gets into my tablet because we look similar!

 

[Eug]

So using your beloved iPhone is "annoying"? Gotcha! :thumbsup:

You bet. Like I said, passcodes are damn annoying. That's one of the things I hate the most about cell phones in general.

 

[cheezy321]

Using a biometric lock has always been a nightmare from a 5th Amendment standpoint. In particular, this part: "nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself".

Putting a biometric lock on anything, whether it's your phone, laptop, desktop, etc., is akin to waiving your 5th Amendment rights and granting any government agency access to your secured information.

In light of the entire Snowden/NSA episode, I want to make it as difficult as possible for the government to trample on my rights to personal privacy.

This would make more sense if the alternative you promote was not a company that makes its living off of knowing your personal information, searching habits, purchasing habits, personal conversations, emails, the list goes on and on and on. You voluntarily give up your personal information every single day with your Samsung phone yet your rights are TRAMPLED if you have a fingerprint reader in the phone.

Seems to me you just like to point out the faults of one company while completely hiding the fact that their competitor makes 95% of its profits off advertising based on your 'personal privacy'.

 

[thedosbox]

You can lock your phone with activation lock. Everyone moaning about this touch ID, wishes they had this on their device.

If you don't like it, there's always the 4 digit pass code.

Whoooosh - talk about missing the point.

Apple is advertising this as "highly secure" without pointing out the risks.

Get into a fight with your boyfriend? Swipe his finger on the phone while he's asleep and go buy loads of crap authorized by that fingerprint.

Wife making plans to divorce you? Swipe his finger on the phone, which also authorizes access to his mobile banking app. Empty his accounts.

And that's with zero high-tech hacking involved.

The nightmare scenario would be if someone hacked the encryption on the phone, in which case they could use that data to impersonate you - and there'd be nothing you can do about it.

It's kind of scary just how naive people supporting the use of this are - simply because apple say it's cool.

 

[openwheel]

I remember those frat days, but at least I could PARTAY without risking someone using my iTunes account. I only had a Nokia basic phone.

I feel sorry for the current generation, they better head back to the dorm room after 10:30PM on a Friday night. At least they'll have a shiny gold iPhone and finger print scanner to play with.

 

[golem]

Whoooosh - talk about missing the point.

Apple is advertising this as "highly secure" without pointing out the risks.

It all relatively isn't it? It's highly secure compared to nothing. It's probably as secure if not more so depending on the circumstances as a 4 digit pin or a pattern unlock.

Get into a fight with your boyfriend? Swipe his finger on the phone while he's asleep and go buy loads of crap authorized by that fingerprint.

how would this be easier than just taking a credit card out of a wallet and ordering stuff this way? Except a credit card allows you to order from any online place vs ordering stuff from ITunes/Apple.

Wife making plans to divorce you? Swipe his finger on the phone, which also authorizes access to his mobile banking app. Empty his accounts.

TouchID does this, which bank app is unlocked by TouchID? That's like saying one you get pass a pin code or pattern unlock on another phone, the banking app on the phone automatically allows you access to the bank account.

And that's with zero high-tech hacking involved.

The nightmare scenario would be if someone hacked the encryption on the phone, in which case they could use that data to impersonate you - and there'd be nothing you can do about it.

Isn't this the same risk you take if you have any type of smart phone?

It's kind of scary just how naive people supporting the use of this are - simply because apple say it's cool.

Most of the scenarios you mentioned are possible with any smartphone, don't exist (yet) or easier to do a different way.

Reasons to support this would be.
more secure and almost as convenient vs no security.
as secure but more more convenient vs pass code or pattern unlock.

 

[MrX8503]

Whoooosh - talk about missing the point.

Apple is advertising this as "highly secure" without pointing out the risks.

Get into a fight with your boyfriend? Swipe his finger on the phone while he's asleep and go buy loads of crap authorized by that fingerprint.

Wife making plans to divorce you? Swipe his finger on the phone, which also authorizes access to his mobile banking app. Empty his accounts.

And that's with zero high-tech hacking involved.

The nightmare scenario would be if someone hacked the encryption on the phone, in which case they could use that data to impersonate you - and there'd be nothing you can do about it.

It's kind of scary just how naive people supporting the use of this are - simply because apple say it's cool.

Apple said its highly secure not unbreakable.

LOL they are. My HP laptop from 3 years ago took a print of my finger prints. it even showed it. Its not as fast as the 5s but the underlying tech is the same. So stop being a shill. You are feeding into the other idiots idiocy and are not coming off any better.


Anyway, its a good fast tech, like it or hate it it does have some uses. Its GOT to be better than face recognition. My son always gets into my tablet because we look similar!

Lol are you for real? Those laptop finger scanners are pretty dumb.

 

[thedosbox]

Isn't this the same risk you take if you have any type of smart phone?

No, because pass codes/passwords are something you know, and can be changed. Fingerprints are something you have, and cannot be changed. Once the encryption is broken, fingerprint data will be sold on underground sites and there will be nothing the victims can do about it.

TouchID does this? which bank app is unlocked by TouchID?

Apple have stated that apps can take advantage of TouchID authorization. It's not too much of a stretch for someone using lastpass (or similar apps) to save their bank credentials and have access authorized via TouchID..

Reasons to support this would be.
more secure and almost as convenient vs no security.
as secure but more more convenient vs pass code or pattern unlock.

If you want to trade security for convenience, go right ahead. Just don't go crying to apple if/when that choice bites you in the gluteus maximus.

 

[openwheel]

It all relatively isn't it? It's highly secure compared to nothing. It's probably as secure if not more so depending on the circumstances as a 4 digit pin or a pattern unlock.


how would this be easier than just taking a credit card out of a wallet and ordering stuff this way?



TouchID does this? which bank app is unlocked by TouchID?


And that's with zero high-tech hacking involved.


Isn't this the same risk you take if you have any type of smart phone?

It's kind of scary just how naive people supporting the use of this are - simply because apple say it's cool.

OMG this is the quote of the century: It's highly secure compared to nothing.

Let me ask you, if you use passcode and you pass out, how can someone use your phone to make purchases?

With the finger print scanner, you are completely vulnerable.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Two scenarios.

1. Your finger could be used while you sleep to unlock the phone or pictures taken then. (snooping girlfriends/wives anyone?)

2. Recording police and they notice you. Place you in handcuffs, finger used to unlock phone, deletion of video. Yay Apple! <rollingeyeshere>

However unlikely the possibility I personally would not trust 'touch ID' for my security. You're much better off with 4 digit passcode and for me relegates this 'biometric security' as useless.

 

[OS]

This would make more sense if the alternative you promote was not a company that makes its living off of knowing your personal information, searching habits, purchasing habits, personal conversations, emails, the list goes on and on and on. You voluntarily give up your personal information every single day with your Samsung phone yet your rights are TRAMPLED if you have a fingerprint reader in the phone.

Seems to me you just like to point out the faults of one company while completely hiding the fact that their competitor makes 95% of its profits off advertising based on your 'personal privacy'.

Yeah this is why I ordered a 5S after using five android devices straight.
The revelation that the google play process is basically a backdoor spyware means you basically have no privacy at all using any factory android product. This is on top of Google's streetview wifi hoarding and their android wifi password hoarding. Oh yeah and Google's lawyers are in the gmail lawsuit right now making the claim they have the right to dig through all your emails.

In fact this is probably why Google Nexus devices are much cheaper than everyone else, Google subsidizes their devices by using their devices in aggregate as a massive data mining system to sell out their users. What's even worse is now you have assume anything Google knows the NSA also knows.

Of course it remains to be seen if apple products contain such a level of invasiveness, but with Google products now you are guaranteed to have all your info dredged up. At this point if privacy and security are absolute concerns, people should just abandon smartphones altogether, none of them are secure.

 

[thedosbox]

Of course it remains to be seen if apple products contain such a level of invasiveness, but with Google products now you are guaranteed to have all your info dredged up.

You do realize apple were caught "wifi hoarding" (your words) in 2011 right?

 

[golem]

No, because pass codes/passwords can be changed, fingerprints cannot. Once the encryption is broken, fingerprint data will be sold on underground sites and there will be nothing the victims can do about it.



If you want to trade security for convenience, go right ahead. Just don't go crying to apple if/when that choice bites you in the gluteus maximus.

Okay... who uses a finger print for anything again? Wouldn't criminals be more interested in credit card numbers or social security numbers vs. a fingerprint?

And exactly how easy is it to break into the encryption on the stored fingerprint and create a physical representation of this fingerprint anyway (picture of the fingerprint)? I keep on hearing this mentioned, but I've also heard it mentioned that it's stored as some hash and not easily or even possible to create fingerprint back again from the stored data.

 

[OS]

in conjunction with a streetview mapping system like google?

But like i already said, if security is a primary concern, you should abandon all smartphones.

 

[golem]

Apple have stated that apps can take advantage of TouchID authorization. It's not too much of a stretch for someone using lastpass (or similar apps) to save their bank credentials and have access authorized via TouchID..
.

If someone is willing to auto authorize their bank apps once TouchID auth is passed, then they are just as likely to do the same if on a different phone and Pin Auth or Pattern unlock is passed?

 

[golem]

OMG this is the quote of the century: It's highly secure compared to nothing.

Let me ask you, if you use passcode and you pass out, how can someone use your phone to make purchases?

With the finger print scanner, you are completely vulnerable.

Which is why I said, as secure as pattern unlock and pin code depending on circumstances. Having a finger print scanner makes you vulnerable to the situation you mentioned, but it's less vulnerable to others... say someone looking over your shoulder or a overhead camera video taping you unlock your phone via pin or pattern.

 

[golem]

Two scenarios.

1. Your finger could be used while you sleep to unlock the phone or pictures taken then. (snooping girlfriends/wives anyone?)

2. Recording police and they notice you. Place you in handcuffs, finger used to unlock phone, deletion of video. Yay Apple! <rollingeyeshere>

However unlikely the possibility I personally would not trust 'touch ID' for my security. You're much better off with 4 digit passcode and for me relegates this 'biometric security' as useless.

1. For every situation you mention that a fingerprint sensor is more vulnerable than a pin or unlock code, there is probably another situation in which a fingerprint sensor is less vulnerable than a pin or unlock code. But at least you have the option of 1) nothing. 2)Pin/pattern unlock 3)fingerprint unlock


2. So they can force you to unlock and delete the video, but they can't forcible just take your phone away or accidentally knock the phone out of your hands and step on it?

 

[thedosbox]

Okay... who uses a finger print for anything again?

9 million 5s's have been sold thus far.

Wouldn't criminals be more interested in credit card numbers or social security numbers vs. a fingerprint?

Credit card numbers can be cancelled, social security numbers can be revoked. Fingerprints cannot.

And exactly how easy is it to break into the encryption on the stored fingerprint and create a physical representation of this fingerprint anyway (picture of the fingerprint)? I keep on hearing this mentioned, but I've also heard it mentioned that it's stored as some hash and not easily or even possible to create fingerprint back again from the stored data.

a) you don't need to create a physical representation of the fingerprint. All you would need is the unhashed data.
b) nobody knows how easy it would be to break yet - but as everyone has pointed out, no security system is perfectly secure.

If someone is willing to auto authorize their bank apps once TouchID auth is passed, then they are just as likely to do the same if on a different phone and Pin Auth or Pattern unlock is passed?

Now I know you're being deliberately obtuse. PIN's and passwords can be changed, and rely on the owner actively using them (i.e. when they're awake). Try changing your fingerprints - just make sure a Doctor is nearby when you do it.

Again, feel free to use this convenience if you choose. Just don't go crying to apple when it goes horribly wrong.

 

[openwheel]

1. For every situation you mention that a fingerprint sensor is more vulnerable than a pin or unlock code, there is probably another situation in which a fingerprint sensor is less vulnerable than a pin or unlock code.

2. So they can force you to unlock and delete the video, but they can't forcible just take your phone away or accidentally knock the phone out of your hands and step on it?

1. No, as someone else said, you can change your passcode or pattern. You can't change your finger print.

2. LOL you are stretching it so far it's out of the ball park.

Fact is, the finger print scanner is gimmicky and does not actually provide a higher level of security.

 

[golem]

9 million 5s's have been sold thus far.



Credit card numbers can be cancelled, social security numbers can be revoked. Fingerprints cannot.



a) you don't need to create a physical representation of the fingerprint. All you would need is the unhashed data.
b) nobody knows how easy it would be to break yet - but as everyone has pointed out, no security system is perfectly secure.



Now I know you're being deliberately obtuse. PIN's and passwords can be changed, and rely on the owner actively using them (i.e. when they're awake). Try changing your fingerprints - just make sure a Doctor is nearby when you do it.

Again, feel free to use this convenience if you choose. Just don't go crying to apple when it goes horribly wrong.

I'm asking, once you have my fingerprint, what exactly can you do with it. What exactly is the use of this finger that you now have besides accessing my iphone (if I had one). If I were a criminal, I'd much rather have a S.S. number.

Lets say you were able to break the encryption on where they fingerprint is stored and somehow unhash the data, what could you do with this unhashed data?

 

[Hugo Drax]

Amazing!!!

I guess door locks suck, if you give someone your key and they make a copy of it they can unlock the door as well.

I want to see them lift a fingerprint from a glass and make it work.

 

[thedosbox]

I'm asking, once you have my fingerprint, what exactly can you do with it. What exactly is the use of this finger that you now have besides accessing my iphone (if I had one). If I were a criminal, I'd much rather have a S.S. number.

Lets say you were able to break the encryption on where they fingerprint is stored and somehow unhash the data, what could you do with this unhashed data?

There is no use for unhashed fingerprint data whatsoever. Data that could be used on 9 million (and counting) devices. Nope, no use whatsoever.

 

[golem]

There is no use for unhashed fingerprint data whatsoever. Data that could be used on 9 million (and counting) devices. Nope, no use whatsoever.

Sooo umm.. if you are somehow able break the encryption on the stored fingerprint, and then somehow unhash the data that one fingerprint from that one iphone.. how does this affect the other 8.99999 million iphones again?