LOL... Linux vs Microsoft

[futuristicmonkey]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Easy is relative. If you started using Linux instead of Windows when you got your first computer everything on Linux would be a LOT easier then in Windows. What is easy to you, might not be easy to someone else. That being said, an OS shouldn't be judged on how easily someone can do something in it. It should be judged on how well it does certain tasks.

I could name dozens of things that are easier for me to do in Linux then in Windows.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot to mention how half-assed most of the "replacement" apps in Linux are, and how poorly they do their job.

He's double-right. You also forgot to mention the state of Windows security vs. Linux security.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: zoiks
Windows is for people who don't know Linux.

Or people who gave Linux a shot for over a year and realized in the end that it still just sucks.

Don't blame the OS when it's the users fault.

Name something you can do in Windows you can't do in Linux.

Use all consumer/prosumer TV tuner and PVR cards on the market today.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: futuristicmonkey

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Easy is relative. If you started using Linux instead of Windows when you got your first computer everything on Linux would be a LOT easier then in Windows. What is easy to you, might not be easy to someone else. That being said, an OS shouldn't be judged on how easily someone can do something in it. It should be judged on how well it does certain tasks.

I could name dozens of things that are easier for me to do in Linux then in Windows.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot to mention how half-assed most of the "replacement" apps in Linux are, and how poorly they do their job.

He's double-right. You also forgot to mention the state of Windows security vs. Linux security.

Don't forget though, we are fanboys... but wait.. doesn't that make him a Windows fanboy?

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: zoiks
Windows is for people who don't know Linux.

Or people who gave Linux a shot for over a year and realized in the end that it still just sucks.

Don't blame the OS when it's the users fault.

Name something you can do in Windows you can't do in Linux.

Use all consumer/prosumer TV tuner and PVR cards on the market today.

Why use them all? When the best cards, Hauppauge PVR cards work perfectly. Not to mention any card based on a Zoran, bttv, and numerous other chipsets work perfectly too. The only mainstream cards that do not work to my knowledge are ATI all-in-wonder cards, their drivers are even flaky in windows.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Easy is relative. If you started using Linux instead of Windows when you got your first computer everything on Linux would be a LOT easier then in Windows. What is easy to you, might not be easy to someone else. That being said, an OS shouldn't be judged on how easily someone can do something in it. It should be judged on how well it does certain tasks.

I could name dozens of things that are easier for me to do in Linux then in Windows.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot to mention how half-assed most of the "replacement" apps in Linux are, and how poorly they do their job.

Name them.

Phew, let's see... OpenOffice.org, KOffice (whatever it is, it has really been a while), Audacity, ALSA, ESD, JACK, aRts, might as well mention the entire KDE and GNOME desktop environments, could also throw in the only real way to play just about any games in Linux: WINE and Cedega. That one CD burning frontend was okay (the KDE one) but you needed a bunch of KDE libraries to run it. Woe to those who aren't using a desktop environment and have to use Xcdburn or whatever that shoddy GTK 1 cd-burning frontend was. XMMS is barely competent as a music player, thanks in no small part to the horribleness of Linux audio drivers and sound servers/mixers. There are some other audio player alternatives, but then most of them are KDE/GNOME based.

What are the good Linux apps? Well... Bash, Midnight Commander, Links, GCC. KWrite (I think that's it) was decent for writing code, but does require KDE libraries. Fluxbox and some choice GTK 2 apps probably make for my favorite basic desktop.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: zoiks
Windows is for people who don't know Linux.

Or people who gave Linux a shot for over a year and realized in the end that it still just sucks.

Don't blame the OS when it's the users fault.

Name something you can do in Windows you can't do in Linux.

Use all consumer/prosumer TV tuner and PVR cards on the market today.

Why use them all? When the best cards, Hauppauge PVR cards work perfectly. Not to mention any card based on a Zoran, bttv, and numerous other chipsets work perfectly too. The only mainstream cards that do not work to my knowledge are ATI all-in-wonder cards, their drivers are even flaky in windows.

I'm not a linux hater nor a windows lover. But I am a realist and I've used (or tried to) TV and PVR cards from numerous vendors in both systems. None of the cards I had had any official support for Linux. They all had support for windows. None of them had driver/app downloads for Linux. They all had driver/app downloads for Windows.

Now some guys/gals don't care where they get their software from, but for my hardware I prefer to have warrranted drivers and applications. That's just me.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Easy is relative. If you started using Linux instead of Windows when you got your first computer everything on Linux would be a LOT easier then in Windows. What is easy to you, might not be easy to someone else. That being said, an OS shouldn't be judged on how easily someone can do something in it. It should be judged on how well it does certain tasks.

I could name dozens of things that are easier for me to do in Linux then in Windows.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot to mention how half-assed most of the "replacement" apps in Linux are, and how poorly they do their job.

Name them.

Phew, let's see... OpenOffice.org, KOffice (whatever it is, it has really been a while), Audacity, ALSA, ESD, JACK, aRts, might as well mention the entire KDE and GNOME desktop environments, could also throw in the only real way to play just about any games in Linux: WINE and Cedega. That one CD burning frontend was okay (the KDE one) but you needed a bunch of KDE libraries to run it. Woe to those who aren't using a desktop environment and have to use Xcdburn or whatever that shoddy GTK 1 cd-burning frontend was. XMMS is barely competent as a music player, thanks in no small part to the horribleness of Linux audio drivers and sound servers/mixers. There are some other audio player alternatives, but then most of them are KDE/GNOME based.

What are the good Linux apps? Well... Bash, Midnight Commander, Links, GCC. KWrite (I think that's it) was decent for writing code, but does require KDE libraries. Fluxbox and some choice GTK 2 apps probably make for my favorite basic desktop.

What exactly is wrong with Org? Have you tried OO2.org, it's MUCH better. I agree with you on any KDE app, I don't like KDE at all... but hell, that's why there are so many choices.

Alsa drivers are great and get rid of the need of a sound server. Back when OSS drivers were popular you need the sound servers in order to let more then one process use the sound card... but that was years ago, but it functioned just like windows. ALl sound had to pass through a software mixer before it got the card. With ALSA, you can take full advantage of all the hardware on your card. ALSA is also a LOT more configureable then any windows driver. How easy is it to setup Windows so that while you are playing a game, you can have mp3's coming out of the rear channels, game sound from the front, and vent/teamspeak from the center... I don't even think that is possible.

As far as needing libraries for a program, whatever distro you are using should have installed them for you... if not then you were using a bad distro. SuSe/Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Mandriva/Gentoo all have good package management, never again will you have to hunt for dependencies.

What is so difficult about Cedega?

cedega -config WoW .cedega/WoW/c_drive/Program\ Files/World\ of\ Warcraft/WoW.exe

bam... i've got fullscreen WoW that runs faster then it does in Windows.

Most of the cd burning apps suck.. but for burning ISO's you don't even need one, and considering how easy it is to make an ISO I find it easier to make cd's without a GUI.

What sound card do you have that was causing you all the trouble?

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Crusty
What sound card do you have that was causing you all the trouble?

I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. I'm sorry, but I've heard it all before.

Anyway, Sound Blaster 16, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, onboard audio for my first MB, onboard NForce2 Audio, and now Echo Mia. I'm not even going to bother messing around with the black morass that is Linux audio. Why would I bother even if it has improved when everything is working fine in Windows?

Second, I simply call BS on WoW running faster than it does in Windows. Simple as that. CS 1.5 gave me motion sickness, and that game is how many years old? Six? Seven?

Third, even if the audio driver issues have been worked out, and people started developing their games for Linux as well, and even if there was a good, compatible office suite... Linux does not have Kontakt or Gigastudio, so all previous issues are null and void. The only OS I'd remotely consider switching to from Windows is OSX, but even that I wouldn't do because Gigastudio is Windows only.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: yobarman

Originally posted by: daveymark
oldsmoboat

wow come up with something original?


I found it comical.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Easy is relative. If you started using Linux instead of Windows when you got your first computer everything on Linux would be a LOT easier then in Windows. What is easy to you, might not be easy to someone else. That being said, an OS shouldn't be judged on how easily someone can do something in it. It should be judged on how well it does certain tasks.

I could name dozens of things that are easier for me to do in Linux then in Windows.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot to mention how half-assed most of the "replacement" apps in Linux are, and how poorly they do their job.

Name them.

Phew, let's see... OpenOffice.org, KOffice (whatever it is, it has really been a while), Audacity, ALSA, ESD, JACK, aRts, might as well mention the entire KDE and GNOME desktop environments, could also throw in the only real way to play just about any games in Linux: WINE and Cedega. That one CD burning frontend was okay (the KDE one) but you needed a bunch of KDE libraries to run it. Woe to those who aren't using a desktop environment and have to use Xcdburn or whatever that shoddy GTK 1 cd-burning frontend was. XMMS is barely competent as a music player, thanks in no small part to the horribleness of Linux audio drivers and sound servers/mixers. There are some other audio player alternatives, but then most of them are KDE/GNOME based.

What are the good Linux apps? Well... Bash, Midnight Commander, Links, GCC. KWrite (I think that's it) was decent for writing code, but does require KDE libraries. Fluxbox and some choice GTK 2 apps probably make for my favorite basic desktop.

Yeah, I can understand that and it's the manufactures fault completely. 99% of them will not release any specs/drivers for their cards so it's hard to get drivers for some of them. As far as trusting the drivers, since they are all Open Source I have no problem trusting them.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
What sound card do you have that was causing you all the trouble?

I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. I'm sorry, but I've heard it all before.

Anyway, Sound Blaster 16, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, onboard audio for my first MB, onboard NForce2 Audio, and now Echo Mia. I'm not even going to bother messing around with the black morass that is Linux audio. Why would I bother even if it has improved when everything is working fine in Windows?

Second, I simply call BS on WoW running faster than it does in Windows. Simple as that. CS 1.5 gave me motion sickness, and that game is how many years old? Six? Seven?

Third, even if the audio driver issues have been worked out, and people started developing their games for Linux as well, and even if there was a good, compatible office suite... Linux does not have Kontakt or Gigastudio, so all previous issues are null and void. The only OS I'd remotely consider switching to from Windows is OSX, but even that I wouldn't do because Gigastudio is Windows only.

I'm not sure on the Echo Mia, but the rest of the cards are supported out of the box for any distro. How is that hell? You install your OS and your sound works. Compare that to windows where you have to either find that damn driver CD that has gone missing or find the drivers on the web.

Call shens if you want, but i'll post some screenshots in a bit.

 

[Steve]

What is this thread about?

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: sm8000
What is this thread about?

It started off about a picture.. then all the usual Windows fanboys came out and said how much Linux sucks... so now the Linux fanboys(me) are fighting back.

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
What sound card do you have that was causing you all the trouble?

I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. I'm sorry, but I've heard it all before.

Anyway, Sound Blaster 16, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, onboard audio for my first MB, onboard NForce2 Audio, and now Echo Mia. I'm not even going to bother messing around with the black morass that is Linux audio. Why would I bother even if it has improved when everything is working fine in Windows?

Second, I simply call BS on WoW running faster than it does in Windows. Simple as that. CS 1.5 gave me motion sickness, and that game is how many years old? Six? Seven?

Third, even if the audio driver issues have been worked out, and people started developing their games for Linux as well, and even if there was a good, compatible office suite... Linux does not have Kontakt or Gigastudio, so all previous issues are null and void. The only OS I'd remotely consider switching to from Windows is OSX, but even that I wouldn't do because Gigastudio is Windows only.

I'm not sure on the Echo Mia, but the rest of the cards are supported out of the box for any distro. How is that hell? You install your OS and your sound works. Compare that to windows where you have to either find that damn driver CD that has gone missing or find the drivers on the web.

Call shens if you want, but i'll post some screenshots in a bit.

He got you pretty good, and proved his points with logical arguments...

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Crusty
I'm not sure on the Echo Mia, but the rest of the cards are supported out of the box for any distro. How is that hell? You install your OS and your sound works. Compare that to windows where you have to either find that damn driver CD that has gone missing or find the drivers on the web.

Call shens if you want, but i'll post some screenshots in a bit.

Yeah, they all worked out of the box for me as well. Unless I wanted two apps to use sound at the same time, in which case I would need an audio server. And in that case I'd be using the atrocious ESD or aRts.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
I'm not sure on the Echo Mia, but the rest of the cards are supported out of the box for any distro. How is that hell? You install your OS and your sound works. Compare that to windows where you have to either find that damn driver CD that has gone missing or find the drivers on the web.

Call shens if you want, but i'll post some screenshots in a bit.

Yeah, they all worked out of the box for me as well. Unless I wanted two apps to use sound at the same time, in which case I would need an audio server. And in that case I'd be using the atrocious ESD or aRts.

Well then stop using OSS drivers. I use ALSA and can do anything I want with my sound card. I can play my guitar through the live drive in the front, play WoW, listen to music, use Ventrilo, through my comp speakers, as well as pipe it across the digital output to my reciever. I don't think any distro currently uses OSS at all, it was deprecated with the 2.6 kernel. ALSA is the new standard for Linux audio drivers, and for a damn good reason. They WORK, and are VERY flexible.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Crusty
Well then stop using OSS drivers. I use ALSA and can do anything I want with my sound card. I can play my guitar through the live drive in the front, play WoW, listen to music, use Ventrilo, through my comp speakers, as well as pipe it across the digital output to my reciever. I don't think any distro currently uses OSS at all, it was deprecated with the 2.6 kernel. ALSA is the new standard for Linux audio drivers, and for a damn good reason. They WORK, and are VERY flexible.

I was never using OSS drivers.

 

[SampSon]

Funny that only linux people have to come up with humorous little quips to tout their softwares perceived superiority.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Well then stop using OSS drivers. I use ALSA and can do anything I want with my sound card. I can play my guitar through the live drive in the front, play WoW, listen to music, use Ventrilo, through my comp speakers, as well as pipe it across the digital output to my reciever. I don't think any distro currently uses OSS at all, it was deprecated with the 2.6 kernel. ALSA is the new standard for Linux audio drivers, and for a damn good reason. They WORK, and are VERY flexible.

I was never using OSS drivers.

http://alsa.opensrc.org/AlsaSharing

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Funny that only linux people have to come up with humorous little quips to tout their softwares perceived superiority.

That's exactly right, there is no perfect OS. Everyone thinks their OS is the best. It's the same with anything where there are different brands/models to choose from. Everyone has their preference.. just some people have those preferences because of false information or personal bias.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Well then stop using OSS drivers. I use ALSA and can do anything I want with my sound card. I can play my guitar through the live drive in the front, play WoW, listen to music, use Ventrilo, through my comp speakers, as well as pipe it across the digital output to my reciever. I don't think any distro currently uses OSS at all, it was deprecated with the 2.6 kernel. ALSA is the new standard for Linux audio drivers, and for a damn good reason. They WORK, and are VERY flexible.

I was never using OSS drivers.

http://alsa.opensrc.org/AlsaSharing

Don't know what to tell ya. Most of the cards I mentioned support hardware mixing, the problem was with ALSA. Unless, of course, the problem was with me because I didn't write a config file like this:

pcm.dmix0 {
type dmix
ipc_key 673138
slave {
pcm "hw:0,0"
rate 48000
period_time 80000
buffer_time 320000
period_size 4096
buffer_size 16384
}
bindings {
0 0
1 1
}
}
# 'dsp0' is espected by OSS emulation etc.
pcm.dsp0 {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmix0"
}
ctl.dsp0 {
type hw
card 0
}
pcm.!default {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmix0"
}
ctl.!default {
type hw
card 0
}


Uh, yeah...

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: Shawn
that's not microsoft's logo. that's the msn butterfly.

microsoft owns msn i believe...

Hence the name "Microsoft Network"....

 

[ShadowBlade]

heh

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Crusty
Well then stop using OSS drivers. I use ALSA and can do anything I want with my sound card. I can play my guitar through the live drive in the front, play WoW, listen to music, use Ventrilo, through my comp speakers, as well as pipe it across the digital output to my reciever. I don't think any distro currently uses OSS at all, it was deprecated with the 2.6 kernel. ALSA is the new standard for Linux audio drivers, and for a damn good reason. They WORK, and are VERY flexible.

I was never using OSS drivers.

http://alsa.opensrc.org/AlsaSharing

Don't know what to tell ya. Most of the cards I mentioned support hardware mixing, the problem was with ALSA. Unless, of course, the problem was with me because I didn't write a config file like this:

pcm.dmix0 {
type dmix
ipc_key 673138
slave {
pcm "hw:0,0"
rate 48000
period_time 80000
buffer_time 320000
period_size 4096
buffer_size 16384
}
bindings {
0 0
1 1
}
}
# 'dsp0' is espected by OSS emulation etc.
pcm.dsp0 {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmix0"
}
ctl.dsp0 {
type hw
card 0
}
pcm.!default {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmix0"
}
ctl.!default {
type hw
card 0
}


Uh, yeah...

Well the only changes to my config file have been so I can move sources between channels. Basically all I have to do is select in whatever program i'm using what ALSA device I want to use, and that determines where it comes out.

I'm using an Audigy 2 ZS Plat btw.

 

[blakeatwork]

Originally posted by: kogase
It's actually pretty old, but only in the Linux community.

Jesus... it's older then my dead great-grandmother's first bowel movement..