LoL - I can't believe Rep's made a stink about Gray Davis ! -> Bush to Propose Immigration Law Changes

[EagleKeeper]

That politician needs to look in the mirror.

"Immigrants can stop the exodus of jobs overseas by providing an affordable source of labor," he said. "Yes, employers will no longer be able to treat immigrants like slaves. They will have to pay minimum wage. But even minimum wage is wealthy to these people compared to where they came from."

The labor that these people will provide are not going to stop the outsourcing.

what is being outsourced is the upper lower class and middle class jobs.

The illegals becoming legal will not have any impact on this.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
That politician needs to look in the mirror.

"Immigrants can stop the exodus of jobs overseas by providing an affordable source of labor," he said. "Yes, employers will no longer be able to treat immigrants like slaves. They will have to pay minimum wage. But even minimum wage is wealthy to these people compared to where they came from."

The labor that these people will provide are not going to stop the outsourcing.

what is being outsourced is the upper lower class and middle class jobs.

The illegals becoming legal will not have any impact on this.

100% correct you don't outsource landscaping/fast food. You out source a $18 an hour tool an die maker and operator at T. Decent jobs which can be outsourced.

Another thing is it will do the exact opposite. The only reason *some* low tech industry is still here (labor intensive farming, textiles, chicken houses etc ) is the owners can pay them less than minimum and no SS or unemplyment. I imagine once they get legal status it will no longer be cost effective to keep even those sweat shop positions here and they'll go on the dole while the company go to south america which pays textile workers 24 cents an hour.

 

[dmcowen674]

1-9-2004 Close look at Bush's immigration reform reveals some flaws

Bush's plan has too many flaws, rewards too many undocumented workers who have broken the law, punishes too many legal immigrants who have done the right thing and leaves too much authority in the hands of employers to determine who is and who isn't legal.

Other than the fact that the proposal is a grab for Hispanic votes during an election year and provides low-cost employment assistance for industries that have financially supported Bush, it's troubling for other reasons. Among them:

It would reward undocumented immigrants who broke the law when they entered the United States illegally.

It would be eminently unfair to countless immigrants who played by the rules and gained U.S. citizenship under the rigorous rules that naturalization demands. It also would allow employers to threaten their temporary status if they complained about conditions on the job.

It would permit many U.S. employers to continue avoiding paying workers decent wages and threaten to create yet another underclass of workers whose pay guarantees only a subsistence-level quality of life.

It likely would overburden already overwhelmed education systems; require additional public safety resources for agencies that are currently understaffed; severely tax health care providers who now have difficulty delivering services to the poor; and exacerbate existing housing supply problems.

The president, as the federal No Child Left Behind Act demonstrates, has a habit of creating programs that then are left to state and local governments to fund. No Child Left Behind demands improvement in student, teacher and school performance but woefully underfunds it. Bush's immigration proposal has the same feel.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-9-2004 Close look at Bush's immigration reform reveals some flaws

Bush's plan has too many flaws, rewards too many undocumented workers who have broken the law, punishes too many legal immigrants who have done the right thing and leaves too much authority in the hands of employers to determine who is and who isn't legal.

Other than the fact that the proposal is a grab for Hispanic votes during an election year and provides low-cost employment assistance for industries that have financially supported Bush, it's troubling for other reasons. Among them:

It would reward undocumented immigrants who broke the law when they entered the United States illegally.

It would be eminently unfair to countless immigrants who played by the rules and gained U.S. citizenship under the rigorous rules that naturalization demands. It also would allow employers to threaten their temporary status if they complained about conditions on the job.

It would permit many U.S. employers to continue avoiding paying workers decent wages and threaten to create yet another underclass of workers whose pay guarantees only a subsistence-level quality of life.

It likely would overburden already overwhelmed education systems; require additional public safety resources for agencies that are currently understaffed; severely tax health care providers who now have difficulty delivering services to the poor; and exacerbate existing housing supply problems.

The president, as the federal No Child Left Behind Act demonstrates, has a habit of creating programs that then are left to state and local governments to fund. No Child Left Behind demands improvement in student, teacher and school performance but woefully underfunds it. Bush's immigration proposal has the same feel.

The Program in Texas that Bush based his "No Child left behind" BS on was based on fraudulent claims with cooked statistics.A Texas sized Lie!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-9-2004 Close look at Bush's immigration reform reveals some flaws

Bush's plan has too many flaws, rewards too many undocumented workers who have broken the law, punishes too many legal immigrants who have done the right thing and leaves too much authority in the hands of employers to determine who is and who isn't legal.

Other than the fact that the proposal is a grab for Hispanic votes during an election year and provides low-cost employment assistance for industries that have financially supported Bush, it's troubling for other reasons. Among them:

It would reward undocumented immigrants who broke the law when they entered the United States illegally.

It would be eminently unfair to countless immigrants who played by the rules and gained U.S. citizenship under the rigorous rules that naturalization demands. It also would allow employers to threaten their temporary status if they complained about conditions on the job.

It would permit many U.S. employers to continue avoiding paying workers decent wages and threaten to create yet another underclass of workers whose pay guarantees only a subsistence-level quality of life.

It likely would overburden already overwhelmed education systems; require additional public safety resources for agencies that are currently understaffed; severely tax health care providers who now have difficulty delivering services to the poor; and exacerbate existing housing supply problems.

The president, as the federal No Child Left Behind Act demonstrates, has a habit of creating programs that then are left to state and local governments to fund. No Child Left Behind demands improvement in student, teacher and school performance but woefully underfunds it. Bush's immigration proposal has the same feel.

The Program in Texas that Bush based his "No Child left behind" BS on was based on fraudulent claims with cooked statistics.A Texas sized Lie!

It was about an approach to education that was showing amazing results, particularly in Houston, where dropout rates plunged and test scores soared.

Now, as Correspondent Dan Rather reports, it turns out that some of those miraculous claims which Houston made were wrong. And it all came to light when one assistant principal took a close look at his school?s phenomenally low dropout rates ? and found that they were just too good to be true.

?I was shocked. I said, ?How can that be,?? says Robert Kimball, an assistant principal at Sharpstown High School, on Houston?s West side. His own school claimed that no students ? not a single one ? had dropped out in 2001-2002.

But that?s not what Kimball saw: ?I had been at the high school for three years, and I had seen many, many students, several hundred a year, go out the door. And I knew that they were quitting. They told me they were quitting.?

All in all, 463 kids left Sharpstown High School that year ? for a variety of reasons. The school reported zero dropouts

School officials hid that fact by classifying, or coding them as leaving for acceptable reasons: transferring to another school, or returning to their native country.

?That?s how you get to zero dropouts. By assigning codes that say, ?Well, this student, you know, went to another school. He did this or that.? And basically, all 463 students disappeared. And the school reported zero dropouts for the year,? says Kimball. ?They were not counted as dropouts, so the school had an outstanding record.?

?But the teachers didn?t believe it. They knew it was cooking the books."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Education ENRON style

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
This is only about cheap labor. Bush is bringing it here so companies won't have to outsource to Mexico. Of course, that is better than outsourcing to Mexico, but not by much. More companies will be using this cheap labor that otherwise would not have, these jobs will go to Mexicans instead of Americans, the Mexicans will do everything they can to horde as much money thay can then take it all back home with them to Mexico. They will live 10 to a house, use 5 to a car, and they don't use banks or credit cards. All these huge negatives are going to outweigh the (only) benefit of 'cheaper consumer goods' (really a BS argument, how much cheaper are the goods you buy because of NAFTA and outsourcing and the immigrants that are already here?). Lower-class America is going to get screwed HARD from this. I live in NC, lots of lower-class labor types and lots of Mexican immigrants, and I've seen the effect this situation (and NAFTA, it has destroyed our textile industry) has had here.

Very well put. My local news put the spin for the case that is law is really inteded to help the farmers who can't get Americans to work for the pennies they offer to pick fruit. So any job that they can't fill for 3 months straight can now be filled by a Mexican who is willing to work for that price.

So don't be terribly surprised if you see YOUR jobs posted in next Sunday's help wanted section. Only difference is they will only be offering $5.00 an hour for you $75,000-$1000,000 a year salary. When the job goes unfilled, Jesus (hey-seuss) will be sitting where you sat next Monday.

Just another way for American companies to screw the American worker.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
This is only about cheap labor. Bush is bringing it here so companies won't have to outsource to Mexico. Of course, that is better than outsourcing to Mexico, but not by much. More companies will be using this cheap labor that otherwise would not have, these jobs will go to Mexicans instead of Americans, the Mexicans will do everything they can to horde as much money thay can then take it all back home with them to Mexico. They will live 10 to a house, use 5 to a car, and they don't use banks or credit cards. All these huge negatives are going to outweigh the (only) benefit of 'cheaper consumer goods' (really a BS argument, how much cheaper are the goods you buy because of NAFTA and outsourcing and the immigrants that are already here?). Lower-class America is going to get screwed HARD from this. I live in NC, lots of lower-class labor types and lots of Mexican immigrants, and I've seen the effect this situation (and NAFTA, it has destroyed our textile industry) has had here.

Very well put. My local news put the spin for the case that is law is really inteded to help the farmers who can't get Americans to work for the pennies they offer to pick fruit. So any job that they can't fill for 3 months straight can now be filled by a Mexican who is willing to work for that price.

So don't be terribly surprised if you see YOUR jobs posted in next Sunday's help wanted section. Only difference is they will only be offering $5.00 an hour for you $75,000-$1000,000 a year salary. When the job goes unfilled, Jesus (hey-seuss) will be sitting where you sat next Monday.

Just another way for American companies to screw the American worker.

They will post the job in Spanish so you won't even notice ... they are sneaky...

 

[Rmex]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rmex
As I said before, there is nothing at all wrong with this policy.
America is stolen land, it belongs to no one except for Native americans, and mexicans are predominantly native american so we have a right to this land and you dont. The only land that the majority of americans [whites] have a right to is Europe since thats your native land, which Europe btw has its own share of illegals like arabs so maybe you should be more worried about that...
But america is native americans native land so mexicans have a right to live here if we want to. Besides, we built the south west and the foundation that modern america was built upon [los angles, San francsico etc] before it was stolen in the american-mexican war.

Right!!! Like you guys didn't steal anything from the Indians yourselves. Oh that's right, you guys are products of Spaniards raping Indians so that makes your crimes acceptable!

I don't think the Zapatistas would agree with you!

Nope wrong ! The idea the we are all half spanish half indian is bogus. That line of thought is a legacy from 500 years ago when the spanish made a 1 drop law saying that any children from a mestizo [halfwhite/indian] and Native-Mexican couple would also be labled as Mestizo, this carried on to today. And truth is that whites [full blooded spanish] were never a large population in Mexico and you will start to see that its completely false, a mexican who is 1/100 white and 99/100 Aztec is not a mestizo.

 

[alexruiz]

I finally understand the fierce attacks from some of you..... JEALOUSY!!

You are immigrants, and you had to wait in line for several years....... Well, tough luck, that is how geography works..... As consolation, think about it: If the country that has the 12th largest economy in the worldis exporting millions of illegal people to the land of the easy money, what amount of people would be exported by ANY of your original countries (truly fvcked up..... I mean poor) if they shared a border with the USA......

There are people who fear the implementation of this policy could affect them, and that is a justified fear..... But they try to learn ALL the implied factors and consequences. Another group of people are those ones who are aware of those factors, and see it in an objective light. Finally, there are the ones driven by emotions only (you know WHO you are) that feel jealousy or even worse, the retarded brainwashed TV watcher..... YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!

A country is not fixed overnight, and its problems are not caused only by its policies.... The enviroment and its interaction with such country have a large impact... form neighbors to resources to people. We know we have problems, and we are working to fix them, it takes time. If you think you or your country are perfect, good for you! Just don't spread your mental cr@p......
go start building your fence craphunan, your brain doesn't give for more.....


Alex

PS. Whant to feel even higher jealousy? Some of us could be moving to the USA RIGHT now if we wanted and start working almost immediately bypassing all those in line..... My wife was born in the USA...... That gives me legal rights to claim permanent residency..... but it won't happen anytime soon.....

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rmex
As I said before, there is nothing at all wrong with this policy.
America is stolen land, it belongs to no one except for Native americans, and mexicans are predominantly native american so we have a right to this land and you dont. The only land that the majority of americans [whites] have a right to is Europe since thats your native land, which Europe btw has its own share of illegals like arabs so maybe you should be more worried about that...
But america is native americans native land so mexicans have a right to live here if we want to. Besides, we built the south west and the foundation that modern america was built upon [los angles, San francsico etc] before it was stolen in the american-mexican war.

Right!!! Like you guys didn't steal anything from the Indians yourselves. Oh that's right, you guys are products of Spaniards raping Indians so that makes your crimes acceptable!

I don't think the Zapatistas would agree with you!

Your posts are usually accurate and objective, but you slipped here my friend.....
I am interested to hear what you know about the EZLN..... If it is useful, you can help me to change my mind about the press in your country..... by the way, I support the Zapatistas.

Let's start looking for solutions.... What would be your proposal to stop the flow of illegal immigrants? What are the true effects of this flow of persons? Does paranoia justify breaking human rights?

 

[Gaard]

press conference

Some info on this.

The $1,500 buy in needed to participate in this program might be problem.

It might also be a little hairy for these illegals to go to their employers and say "Look. I'm not who I say I am, but I want to apply for this program. But in order to qualify I need you to sign here saying that I already have a job." The employer might not take kindly to finding out the employee lied to get a job there.

The SS issue is also questionable. Bush is pushing the idea of giving back all the money the illegal paid into SS while using a fake SS number.

 

[soundforbjt]

Let's not forget what Reagan did>

President Ronald Reagan was the first president in history to grant amnesty to illegal aliens. On November 6, 1986, he signed into law the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986, [PUB L 99-603]. In so doing, he set a precedent whereby the United States would not seek to deport illegal aliens, but to reward their lawbreaking by granting them full citizenship.


Following is a brief excerpt from lengthy remarks by none other than Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W-VA), speaking on the senate floor in July 2001 against proposals for another amnesty [DOCID:cr23jy01-105]:


Such an amnesty suggests that it is possible to gain permanent residency in the United States regardless of whether you are an alien who arrived here legally or illegally.


That is the message that was sent in 1986 when President Reagan proposed a blanket amnesty to 2.7 million illegal immigrants based largely on the mere fact that they had lived in this country at least since 1982. I supported that amnesty, after accepting the arguments of the Reagan administration that such an amnesty would reduce illegal immigration when combined with tougher sanctions on employers who hire illegal aliens.


What happened instead, was that the United States sent a message to the world that illegal immigrants could gain legal status in the United States without having to go through the normal processes. Consequently, illegal immigration jumped from an estimated 5 million illegals in 1986 to somewhere between 7 million and 13 million illegals today--and these estimates do not even include the 2.7 million illegals who were granted amnesty in 1986.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: alexruiz
I finally understand the fierce attacks from some of you..... JEALOUSY!!

You are immigrants, and you had to wait in line for several years....... Well, tough luck, that is how geography works..... As consolation, think about it: If the country that has the 12th largest economy in the worldis exporting millions of illegal people to the land of the easy money, what amount of people would be exported by ANY of your original countries (truly fvcked up..... I mean poor) if they shared a border with the USA......

There are people who fear the implementation of this policy could affect them, and that is a justified fear..... But they try to learn ALL the implied factors and consequences. Another group of people are those ones who are aware of those factors, and see it in an objective light. Finally, there are the ones driven by emotions only (you know WHO you are) that feel jealousy or even worse, the retarded brainwashed TV watcher..... YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!

A country is not fixed overnight, and its problems are not caused only by its policies.... The enviroment and its interaction with such country have a large impact... form neighbors to resources to people. We know we have problems, and we are working to fix them, it takes time. If you think you or your country are perfect, good for you! Just don't spread your mental cr@p......
go start building your fence craphunan, your brain doesn't give for more.....


Alex

PS. Whant to feel even higher jealousy? Some of us could be moving to the USA RIGHT now if we wanted and start working almost immediately bypassing all those in line..... My wife was born in the USA...... That gives me legal rights to claim permanent residency..... but it won't happen anytime soon.....

*I was born and raised in America and so were my parents and their parents and their parents too.


Wow alex, I am impressed with your special name you created for me... Thank you....

Anyhow.. this is about LAWS and Consequences and Political CORRUPTION.

Why don't you respect the law? People who immigrate here legally go through a very very tough application process and MANY get denied.

Once again alex.. if you care so much about these people who enter this country illegally then why don't you do something to make your country better so they don't want to leave... They make the choice to break the law but you are defending them....

Do you have any idea how much money illegal aliens steal from Americas social services and hospitals?

 

[Rmex]

Well Im 100% for this, the land that Mexican/Native americans are moving to is our land and was for a VERY long time before whites came over and lied and killed to steal it. Even American Native tribes know this, and thats why they are the main finacial supporters of Mexican-American politicians. Whats funny is that now that indiginous people are returning to the land that was stolen, white people get all upset and act like it was thiers in the first place.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Rmex
Well Im 100% for this, the land that Mexican/Native americans are moving to is our land and was for a VERY long time before whites came over and lied and killed to steal it. Even American Native tribes know this, and thats why they are the main finacial supporters of Mexican-American politicians. Whats funny is that now that indiginous people are returning to the land that was stolen, white people get all upset and act like it was thiers in the first place.

You're kidding right? I suppose if dinosours came back we should all jump in the ocean because they had the land first? Civilizations are built on conquest, there are winners and losers, it's just how the world works.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Rmex
Well Im 100% for this, the land that Mexican/Native americans are moving to is our land and was for a VERY long time before whites came over and lied and killed to steal it. Even American Native tribes know this, and thats why they are the main finacial supporters of Mexican-American politicians. Whats funny is that now that indiginous people are returning to the land that was stolen, white people get all upset and act like it was thiers in the first place.

You're kidding right? I suppose if dinosours came back we should all jump in the ocean because they had the land first? Civilizations are built on conquest, there are winners and losers, it's just how the world works.

You're wasting your breath Gonad, Rmex is a complete moron. There's no point in giving him a counter-argument with reasoning. Using his logic, We might as well yield all of our lands back to mother nature and move to Moon/Mars (unless of course, the Aliens were there first 50+ millions years ago).