LOL: Forbes Slams Acura

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
To be competitive th NSX needs to have at least 350 hp eight cylinder engine.

...and get a $30,000 price cut. $90,000+ is too much to ask for that old thang.

 

[gopunk]

I agree except I would take a TL-S over the new Accord Sedan. I think the TL-S looks pretty sharp and the Accord Sedan is fugly, especially the a$$.

i would take the TL over the accord too, but i think the accord is decent looking, and i esp. like the ass :Q

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: gopunk

I agree except I would take a TL-S over the new Accord Sedan. I think the TL-S looks pretty sharp and the Accord Sedan is fugly, especially the a$$.

i would take the TL over the accord too, but i think the accord is decent looking, and i esp. like the ass :Q

"Hey, it's the ASSMAN!"

😛

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
To be competitive th NSX needs to have at least 350 hp eight cylinder engine.

...and get a $30,000 price cut. $90,000+ is too much to ask for that old thang.

Heck, it'd be still worth it if they just tuned the engine up to at least 300hp and lightened that fat car up. I recall how much Honda bragged about the lengths they went to save weight in the car when it first came out. Now... it's a fat overweight car especially with today's materials technologies.

Mebbe if it weighed about 2100lbs then it might be justifiable with 300+hp @ $80k. But a Porsche Carrera is 300hp+ flat6 weighing in at nearly the same weight as the current NSX for a lot less sticker. But then... would I buy a new Acura or a new Porsche Turbo, ZO6, Viper, M3, etcetcetc...

 

[manuelku]

one thing is that japanese import usually does not focus at displacement and you will usually find the biggest displacemant of a japanese import is maybe 3 - 3.2l.. with V6... if you look into that, japanese import usually design thier cars for younger drivers.. and I don't think that a "luxury" car has to have a v8?? (other than Lexus GS400 or SC430, I don't think there is another v8 japanese import)

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: manuelku
one thing is that japanese import usually does not focus at displacement and you will usually find the biggest displacemant of a japanese import is maybe 3 - 3.2l.. with V6... if you look into that, japanese import usually design thier cars for younger drivers.. and I don't think that a "luxury" car has to have a v8?? (other than Lexus GS400 or SC430, I don't think there is another v8 japanese import)

Would you drive a Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7-Series, or Audi A8 if it had a V6?? I think not. As for Japanese V8 imports:


Cars:

Lexus LS430
Infiniti M45
Infiniti Q45


SUV/Crossovers

Lexus GX470
Lexus LX470
Infiniti FX45
Toyota 4-Runner
Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Land Cruiser


Pickups
Toyota Tundra
Nissan Titan


Honda/Acura ain't got jack when it comes to V8's

 

[CraigRT]

I like Acura, but not as much as Infiniti or Lexus..

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Sluggo
Well, I really dont think Acura competes in the luxury market. I would consider luxury market to be $50,000+ cars, and I think Acura only has one car that hits that mark, and it is in a class by itself.

Acura is more the upscale middle class Honda market. Everyone who bought a Honda and loved it, and now makes a little more money and wants a little nicer car, but loves the Honda feel.

The Acura RL is a $46,000 POS FWD 225HP slugboat 4-speed auto craptastic piece of metal. It's the "Buick" of Japanese luxury sedans

HEY! Don't knock Buick like that! They're good for thier target market: Conservative smooth riding cars.

 

[BigSmooth]

I pretty much agree with the article. Acuras are OK, but there are just too many great alternatives out there. They keep bringing out unexciting products, which just doesn't go over well in the 'look at me" luxury market.

As for the alphanumeric naming, it is definitely annoying. At least stay consistent throughout your model line.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Sluggo
Well, I really dont think Acura competes in the luxury market. I would consider luxury market to be $50,000+ cars, and I think Acura only has one car that hits that mark, and it is in a class by itself.

Acura is more the upscale middle class Honda market. Everyone who bought a Honda and loved it, and now makes a little more money and wants a little nicer car, but loves the Honda feel.

The Acura RL is a $46,000 POS FWD 225HP slugboat 4-speed auto craptastic piece of metal. It's the "Buick" of Japanese luxury sedans

Thats what it is intended to be. I wouldn't buy one, but it is apparnetly a great car in the used market sector cause of its depreciation.

I remember reading a quote from a Honda engineer who said that they [Honda] won't develop a V8 until they find a need for it. And also until they could fina way to make it have little emissions and great economy, they won't build one. They are pretty much committed to their environmental-ecology-ideals. They won't put in a V8 for the sake of having a V8. If there's no need for it (other than prestige) why put it in?

Which is good for them. Sure they see a little fall in sales of high-end Acura, but they are committed to their goals. Kudos to them.

And over here in Canada, Acura is popular, very very popular. Every car in their line-up is a hot seller (except maybe the new RL). I know the TL is the best selling midsize luxury car in Canada. People here LOVE the TL. But then who wouldn't, for the price you pay you get a whole lot.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: SOSTrooper
Is it just me or does all the more luxury cars like the Lexus, Benz, BMW, Audi, Acura, Volvo, Infiniti...etc, all have simple letters and numbers to indicate their models? As oppose to economic cars like Honda, Nissan, VW, Dodge, Toyota, Ford...etc all have real names for their cars.

Its marketing. If you own a Lexus/MB/BMW/luxury car make, when people ask you waht car you drive, u dont' say a 328i or a GS430 (which to hte non-enthuisaist means nothing) you say a Lexus (which says a lot to anyone). Same goes for all luxury cars, they want brand recognition. If you dirve a lowend 318i you won't say I drive a 318, but rather a BMW.

For econo cars, they place more marketing on the individual car than the make.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: SOSTrooper
Is it just me or does all the more luxury cars like the Lexus, Benz, BMW, Audi, Acura, Volvo, Infiniti...etc, all have simple letters and numbers to indicate their models? As oppose to economic cars like Honda, Nissan, VW, Dodge, Toyota, Ford...etc all have real names for their cars.

Its marketing. If you own a Lexus/MB/BMW/luxury car make, when people ask you waht car you drive, u dont' say a 328i or a GS430 (which to hte non-enthuisaist means nothing) you say a Lexus (which says a lot to anyone). Same goes for all luxury cars, they want brand recognition. If you dirve a lowend 318i you won't say I drive a 318, but rather a BMW.

For econo cars, they place more marketing on the individual car than the make.

I think the fact that the Legend's sales plummeted when its name changed proves that this approach is not always correct, though. There's something to be said for an individual model having a strong identity of its own. The Boxster is a good example of this. The commercials emphasize that's it's a Porsche, but the Boxster name is instantly recognizable on its own as well.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: bigsmooth

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: SOSTrooper
Is it just me or does all the more luxury cars like the Lexus, Benz, BMW, Audi, Acura, Volvo, Infiniti...etc, all have simple letters and numbers to indicate their models? As oppose to economic cars like Honda, Nissan, VW, Dodge, Toyota, Ford...etc all have real names for their cars.

Its marketing. If you own a Lexus/MB/BMW/luxury car make, when people ask you waht car you drive, u dont' say a 328i or a GS430 (which to hte non-enthuisaist means nothing) you say a Lexus (which says a lot to anyone). Same goes for all luxury cars, they want brand recognition. If you dirve a lowend 318i you won't say I drive a 318, but rather a BMW.

For econo cars, they place more marketing on the individual car than the make.

I think the fact that the Legend's sales plummeted when its name changed proves that this approach is not always correct, though. There's something to be said for an individual model having a strong identity of its own. The Boxster is a good example of this. The commercials emphasize that's it's a Porsche, but the Boxster name is instantly recognizable on its own as well.

True but that is because the Legend was the best car Acura ever made. It was an instant hit. And it was true to its name, even now. But the previous Legend is not what its current iteration (the 3.5RL) is now. The replacement is nothing what made the Legend a legend. Legend was sporty and stylish, the 3.5RL is neither. The Legend came in a coupe form with 6-spd and a racy engine, the RL has none of those.

Two diferent cars.

 

[Mani]

I still haven't figured out what Acura's marketing people were thinking when they rolled out the RL. It seems to offer nothing that another car in its niche would do, while having only 6 cylinders. Why the hell can't Honda get a V8 out?

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Mani
I still haven't figured out what Acura's marketing people were thinking when they rolled out the RL. It seems to offer nothing that another car in its niche would do, while having only 6 cylinders. Why the hell can't Honda get a V8 out?

read my posts above. They find no reason to sell a V8 when the V6 does the job.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Mani
I still haven't figured out what Acura's marketing people were thinking when they rolled out the RL. It seems to offer nothing that another car in its niche would do, while having only 6 cylinders. Why the hell can't Honda get a V8 out?

read my posts above. They find no reason to sell a V8 when the V6 does the job.

In the luxury market, IT DOES MATTER. That's why the RL sells so poorly. Do you think that BMW, Mercedes, or Audi would sell their top of the line cars with 6-cylinder engines ONLY?? HELL NO.

More cylinders = prestige, power, and performance. The RL has none of that and its poor sales show that.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Mani
I still haven't figured out what Acura's marketing people were thinking when they rolled out the RL. It seems to offer nothing that another car in its niche would do, while having only 6 cylinders. Why the hell can't Honda get a V8 out?

read my posts above. They find no reason to sell a V8 when the V6 does the job.

In the luxury market, IT DOES MATTER. That's why the RL sells so poorly. Do you think that BMW, Mercedes, or Audi would sell their top of the line cars with 6-cylinder engines ONLY?? HELL NO.

More cylinders = prestige, power, and performance. The RL has none of that and its poor sales show that.

Didn't you read my post before that. Honda doesn't care about the prestige (for now anyway). I'll try to dig up that quote, but the gist of it was: they won't build a V* until they can find a way to do it while still maintaining a high mileage and low emissions akin to their current V6s/I4s.

Prestige and power be dammed unless its as environmentally friendly as their I4s/V6s. That's their philopshy. And while the higher end luxury cars all offer V8s, they are at a MUCH higher pricepoint than the RL. Q45 is aorund 80k CDN, well equipped S430/745i is around 90k CDN, LS430 around 90k as well, the RL? Only 55k CDN.

Its a cheaper alternetaive to its competitors for buyers who don't need a V8 or don't care for brand prestige. They just want something comfortable and refined. Acura offers that with their RL.

Now I still think the RL is a waste of a car, but I DO respect Honda's view on why its there.

EDIT: Forget the V8 issue. I still wanna know why on the S-class (a 90k vehicle) while HIDs weren't standard (until this or previous model year) and why they didn't offer a cd changer stock? Honestly, those M-B don't really come with a lot of standard equipment for hteir price.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

The reason why more cylinders is generally desired (aside from large numbers) is the fact that more cylinders tend to make an engine smoother. A 3.2L V8 and a 3.2 V6 can have similar amounts of horse power, pollution, fuel consumption, and the V8 will be smoother (everything else being equal)

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
The reason why more cylinders is generally desired (aside from large numbers) is the fact that more cylinders tend to make an engine smoother. A 3.2L V8 and a 3.2 V6 can have similar amounts of horse power, pollution, fuel consumption, and the V8 will be smoother (everything else being equal)

True. But the RL's V6 is pretty damn smooth.

Actually I think we have reached a point where most V6s are smooth. Toyotas/HOndas/Nissans/etc... all have smooth 6s.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
The reason why more cylinders is generally desired (aside from large numbers) is the fact that more cylinders tend to make an engine smoother. A 3.2L V8 and a 3.2 V6 can have similar amounts of horse power, pollution, fuel consumption, and the V8 will be smoother (everything else being equal)

True. But the RL's V6 is pretty damn smooth.

Actually I think we have reached a point where most V6s are smooth. Toyotas/HOndas/Nissans/etc... all have smooth 6s.

WHOA: read that article, Lexus has double sales of light trucks compared to BMW/MB..damnn..well figures since they have like 3 different trucks..but still..

 

[RossMAN]

I really miss the old Acura model names Legend, Vigor and Integra did I forget one?

Unfortunately people REALLY liked the model names because they started associating their cars with the model name instead of the make (Acura).

RSX, CL, TL and RL is corny if you ask me oh and the MDX.

 

[gregshin]

what do you guys expect from HONDUH?

"Hondas and acuras are like tampons....every pussy needs one"

The legend was the only acura i gave respect too

 

[Thraxen]

Geeze...screw V8's. You would think cars like Porsche and the WRX prove they are unecessary.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Geeze...screw V8's. You would think cars like Porsche and the WRX prove they are unecessary.

V8 is all that comes in a Porsche Cayenne. Once a car reaches a certain size, an 8-cylinder or larger engine is what's needed. Just about every large sedan has a V8 engine in it (or the option). If you want to push luxury and prestige, a V8 is great. V8 + RWD is the perfect combo. That's why both Cadillac and Chrysler are going back to RWD/V8 platforms for their new full-size cars.


Crown Vic
Grand Marquis
DeVille
SeVille
S-Class
7-Series
LS430
A8
XJ
Phaeton
Q45
M45
Aurora



As for the WRX comment, it's a friggen compact car. Nobody is gonna put a V8 in that little thing.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Mani
I still haven't figured out what Acura's marketing people were thinking when they rolled out the RL. It seems to offer nothing that another car in its niche would do, while having only 6 cylinders. Why the hell can't Honda get a V8 out?

read my posts above. They find no reason to sell a V8 when the V6 does the job.

That's irrelevant - when you get into the luxury space, it's not about need, it's about want. Even if you didn't care about the fact that V8s have the rumble and low-rev pull that a V6 can't match, they are a necessity checkbox item in luxury cruisers. When every other car in the class has a V8, it doesn't matter if your V6 is the best damn six cylinder engine in the world - it's still a V6.