LoL at Alienware

[Dug]

Originally posted by: jvarszegi

Originally posted by: Dug
Putting a car together is only more complicated if you don't know how to do it. I've done it so I know. If you don't know how to put a computer together you can say the same thing. Never mind all the questions you'll have if you don't even know the acronyms, compatibility problems, operating system installation, drivers, etc. Cars are simple in comparison. The building location has nothing to do with the point.
How's this- Try building a Linux database server, website, and firewall if you've never touched Linux box before. Tell me how much time it will take you to install your first driver on a Linux box? Is it worth saving a few hundred from having it preconfigured?

I didn't think it was possible, but your second post is more idiotic than the first. Just compare the number of parts in a car to the number of modular parts in a computer build, and all the necessary tuning and physical labor, besides the difficulty in securing the necessary materials and space for the build! I'll probably never convince you, but if you run a poll you'll learn that you're wrong.

You prove my point so well. Sorry you can't put a simple mechanical vehicle together, let alone don't have the physical strength or are too lazy to handle it, or even a garage to work in. You're right, there's too many parts in a car, so don't do it.

Guess how people feel about building a computer. Try explaining to someone that's never built a computer, from scratch, how to pick out parts, explain all the details and specifications, install the os, update drivers, and configure.

They'll become bored in 5minutes because to them it's not worth the hassle, just like building a car isn't worth the hassle to you.

 

[Zebo]

AW JUAN.

Be sure to LMK when you have a smoking sale on AW warez I'll buy one fo shizzle. Honestly, until this thread forced me too, I never realised what a value your systems are going for... You must get killer bulk deals on hardware to offer these ourstanding prices.


I was just looking at your 20" LCD and it has the exact same specs as Veiwsonics which costs $200 more.

But I'm not buying your $150 powercable

 

[ATW]

I actually have friends and family that tell me I'm insane to build my own computers...that buying a prebuilt from Best Buy is without question the best way to go. What they don't realize is I've put together a top of the line gaming system that cost roughly as much as their Dell/HP/Compaq that would self-disentegrate upon even trying to install a recent game.

You folks can argue all you want that your prebuilt Alienware's and the Best Buy PC's are equal to our DIY builds, but we all know your only reason for doing so is because you aren't capable of DIY. It's not rocket science...it really isn't.

 

[flexy]

>>>
$212 on a case?
$600 on a 22" CRT monitor?
$130 on a power supply?
>>>

i can see the PSU, even if this one is still too expensive.

But a $212 case....LOL

 

[shinotenshi]

My monitor cost me around $800 when i got a few years ago. a 22" ag. It is by far the best investment to make. i have change every component at least twice since i got it. The only people who mock 22 inch crts are people who have never seen the glory of doom 3 at 2058x1536 in a dark room. You also can never spend too much for a qualtiy psu no matter what anyone said. get the best you can afford. I use pc&C becuase i know its one less thing i ever have to worry about. the lian case is excessive. aw cases are ugly. If i had were to buy a pre-built system i would choose falcon nw over alienware any day of the week though. Building isnt for everyone, and its certiantly not a short coming if you do go that route. but if you are i think dell(if on a budget) or falcon northwest are both much better options that either alienware or voodoo pc.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: flexy
>>>
$212 on a case?
$600 on a 22" CRT monitor?
$130 on a power supply?
>>>

i can see the PSU, even if this one is still too expensive.

But a $212 case....LOL

WTF is wrong with that case? I have it. I like to be surrounded by nice things not some crappy piece of plastic that rattles away.

 

[shinotenshi]

i went for the silverstone temjin 6 myself, only 105 bucks. and has more room than the lian and looks better in my opinon. also being that its mostly steel, no rattles, also since i dont do lan party's wieght wasnt an issue. I think the added expense of alumiun only matters if you are trying to make a portable system.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: shinotenshi
i went for the silverstone temjin 6 myself, only 105 bucks. and has more room than the lian and looks better in my opinon. also being that its mostly steel, no rattles, also since i dont do lan party's wieght wasnt an issue. I think the added expense of alumiun only matters if you are trying to make a portable system.

Sweet case. I used to have the TJ03 until I sold it cause my radiator was'nt condusive to it's space. I kinda prefer cases with heavy doors to block the CDrom noise...Barrier loading priciple...

 

[BadAcid]

Originally posted by: OSUBeaver
I got a newegg towel with my cpu purchase!! eat that alienware!!

Having just read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I heartily chuckled at that statement for a reason probably not intended.

 

[Pciber]

WTF is wrong with that case?

Nothing at all. Its a great case. Just I would rather spend money on other parts of the system, rather than a whole lot on the case.

And yeah, maybe you compared it as close as you could to the parts alienwares come with, and it came out AW tags on ~15%, but just because alienware puts overpriced stuff into their systems, should you? Build a system with comparable specs and performance, but it doesn't have to have the exact same parts.

Oh, btw, Shens means bullsh*t... get with the times, people!

 

[NewBlackDak]

I can and will always put my own together. I can put together a machine that is cheaper, faster, and quieter all at the same time. Lately I've stopped putting together machines for other people unless I make it 100% clear that my build comes with no free support, and my support comes in at $60/hour with 1 hour minimum. That figure is enough that people with real problems will gladly pay it, but people aren't as apt to call for silly stuff.

Anybody can put together a machine, but I have a list of people(who I can't even count with my shoes off) that call me when they're putting together a machine. When they run into those little unexpected snags they don't know how to deal with them. This time of the year it's so irritating that I'd rather they bought pre-built, so I don't have to deal with them. I get paid to fix computers. Why does everyone think I need to fix theirs for free? You wouldn't ask a mechanic to fix your car on the side for free would you?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Pciber

WTF is wrong with that case?

Nothing at all. Its a great case. Just I would rather spend money on other parts of the system, rather than a whole lot on the case.

And yeah, maybe you compared it as close as you could to the parts alienwares come with, and it came out AW tags on ~15%, but just because alienware puts overpriced stuff into their systems, should you? Build a system with comparable specs and performance, but it doesn't have to have the exact same parts.

Oh, btw, Shens means bullsh*t... get with the times, people!

Like DP said above, a good case will last you forever. Plus you have to look at it everyday. That's worth some consideration and expense don't you think? I've had the cheap junk trying to maximize my bucks inside. I've built comps for 15 years and with every cheap plastic case I thought to myself, I can't wait to do another upgrade to get rid of this POS case... 200 bucks is really quite low when you consider video cards are now costing $400-600 for the good ones. Why not have something attractive that will last? trust me, you'll agree once you make the leap.

I'm not being unreasonable, I've seen the AW case at comdex and it's built well. Looks are subjective, but I'd estimate it costs them $120 and would cost us ~200...

But fine, lets run with your assumption that my case is way out of line. everything else is exactly what newegg sells, the A64 3500, the Diamond pro, the 6800GT video card, the XP pro, etc.. Still AW is only 9% more money.

 

[Tarrant64]

I like how this simple thread turned out.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: jvarszegi

Originally posted by: malak
You can't say it's better for me to build it myself when it clearly is not.

I can say whatever I want, and I disagree that it's clearly better for you to buy a machine than to build one; wasting money is never smart. All I actually said, though, was that your comparison was stupid.

You're wrong about several things, but especially about Dell's track record. Go to epinions.com or anywhere else where people review products, and you'll see a disproportionate number of dissatisfied Dell customers. Their machines do break, and when they do you're at the mercy of one of the worst support organizations in the business.

I don't need to go to some random website to know how well Dell's run. My college(ITT Tech) had all Dells and they were fine. I have a Dell and it's just as good as the next PC. In all the tech forums I've ever been too I haven't seen nearly as many issues with Dells as I've seen with custom-built PC's. Dell's support may not be top notch now, but it was once the best around. They simply got overrun by a huge increase in customers because they were known as #1. Everyone went to them. They are probably still building their support back up right now.

DIY is not the solution at all for everyone.

You're right. I agree. However, I don't buy the moronic marketing hype on the AW website, as you apparently do. Enjoy the benefits of AlienWire(TM) technology...

I don't buy any marketing crap either. I wanted a pre-built machine, and their's was the cheapest. I visited MANY sites before choosing. Nobody came close to their price. You can't possibly make a single arguement against my decision, it's all nonsense. Some of us don't want to build our machines, and we aren't wasting our money. We are paying for a service that is something we want. That's not a waste. A waste would be me attempting to build a PC, not having any tech support at all, screwing it up and having to get new parts, posting on these forums like everyone else about my problems, and wasting a lot of my precious time. I'm paying someone else to worry about building my machine, someone who is an expert at this and does it right the first time. And my PC's will last a long time, contrary to what you believe. I've been getting pre-built PC's for years from varius companies. I haven't experienced all these horrors you want everyone to believe exist.

 

[Pciber]

Originally posted by: Zebo
trust me, you'll agree once you make the leap.

Still AW is only 9% more money.

I have made the leap, in fact.. until about a week ago, i had a case that had professionally painted fire-streaks all along it.. it was nice. I only paid $40 for it, though - ebay is the best ... I didn't notice too much of a difference, and my case is staring at me everyday.. It was certainly nice to look at, but most of the time I was too busy playing a game, or surfing anandtech, etc...

My new case I did pay $200 for, interestingly enough... but it is a shuttle XPC.. so it has a motherboard, heatsink, etc, with it. Why am i spending more for a tiny case, you ask? I go to lan partys.. a lot. Weight and portability matter to me.

How do you figure only 9% more? I thught it was around 15%, but then, with that estimate, you aren't including the $200 case - so its closer to 20 to 25%

 

[Sunner]

The comparison between building your own car and building your own computer is so incredibly stupid it's hardly worth commenting on, but I'm bored, so I will anyway

Everyone who can build their own car in ~30-60 minutes, raise your hands.
Noone? Ok then.
Add another 2 hours for installation of Windows/Linux/BSD/Whatever you like.
Still noone?

Of course DIY isn't for everyone, anyone should realize that, but places that sell "Custom optimized blah blah blah" tend to overcharge by a huge margin, and you don't even know what you're getting.

I just had a quick look at their Aurora City 17 system(first one I found on their site, I didn't look around).
For ~$3000 you get:
480W PSU(unknown brand), a 510W PC P&C will run you $211 extra.
Athlon 64 4000+
Abit AV8
1 Gig of Corsair PC3200 XMS ELL RAM
Radeon X800 Pro
AlienIce(yay, I can save $70 by removing this).
250 GB WD harddrive
16X DVD-ROM
16X NEC DVD-/+RW
Floppy
Audigy2
1 year support

And that's it.
Now, where did the $3000 go?
Even here in Sweden where computer products tend to be far more expensive I managed to build a rig for far less than that, that was equivalent, with the following exceptions:
530W Fortron PSU vs their 480W whateverbrand.
Radeon X800XT vs their X800 Pro
Two 16X DVD-/+RW's since I was too lazy to look for a DVD-ROM, and it was obvious I would undercut them by quite a bit anyway.
I got two games with the Audigy2.

Even with today's crappy USD, I got this for ~$2600 or something along those lines, and given the X800XT it would kick the Auroras ass for gaming.

If someone wanted a good gaming rig and didn't wanna build it themself, I would point them at some store that doesn't add 20-30% on the price just for their brand and a bunch of useless gimmicks.

 

[0roo0roo]

Everyone who can build their own car in ~30-60 minutes, raise your hands.

thats wildly optimistic.

add hours on researching parts.
if you already know which parts to buy you've already spent countless hours researching parts
hours shoppin
maybe an hour ripping apart the two dozen boxes that get shipped to you, then another 30 minutes disposing
maybe a few hours driving to shops if u don't order online
atleast an hour trouble shooting or at the very least stability testing

meh, and u still gotta be your own tech support
and 30-60minutes putting it together? not if you want to do a good job with neat wiring. and thats assuming you know how to do this stuff quickly, which only comes from practice on previous systems, and hours spend on them

 

[Philippine Mango]

I have learned something over the past few years, it's that if I see something in the public eye and I hear regular joe smooes raving about something it's probably crap. For example, Alienware computers, Bose sound systems, doom III and dell computers. And things that I don't see amongst the general public: Voodoo PC, Antec, Lite-on, IBM (for laptops anyways) and seagate are actually good products. Now about voodoo pc, if anybody would like to, feel free to comment on whether or not you guys think voodoo pc sucks. Because I see their laptops and they could easily kick Alienware's crappy plastic laptops anyday (nice to see a gaming rig with Pentium M processors).

Here is one thing I would like to say, I have never owned an alienware system, I have never owned a voodoo pc or falcon northwest system, I have HDDs made by other manufacturers and they haven't failed (except some really crappy drives) I have 2 seagate drives in a Dell 8200 system and they have not failed (Got the second drive because I told dell the first died, turned out it didnt! ). I did not purchase that dell system but instead decided my dad didn't need it (which he clearly didn't because it took him over a year to realize he didn't have one). And thats about it...

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: malak
I purchased a Dell because I had a friend who was just like everyone else here. "Build your own! You'll save money!" Wait, I don't have $800 to go spend. I was a college student. With financing, I could get a Dell and actually have a machine instead of not having a computer and waiting months and months to save up for one.

I've had this Dell for 2 years and it has not failed me. All the hardware is running fine, XP has not died, everything is ok. My friend's computer is toast. Constant hardware conflicts made his OS unstable all the time, had to reformat countless times. Finally got a new machine and his video card dies. He had the same video card I did, but his was bought a couple months after mine. Mine is still kicking ass.

This time around I went with Alienware. The #2 rig below was only $1800. That's way cheaper than I could buy at any other place, and I'm getting high-end. They keep me up to date on everything they do while they build my system, and their customer support has been great so far. Now sure, I could attempt at building my own system. But I've never done that before, I don't know enough about every piece of hardware in a computer to be sure of success. My friend thought he did, and found some of his hardware conflicted with other hardware and ran into a lot of issues. Maybe some of you can do it flawlessly, I can't. I have to say for $1800 I'm getting a kick-ass machine. I'll go through and see how much it may have costed at newegg, but I have a feeling the price of possible failure is much higher than a peaceful mind.

I bet you $5 that your "friend" doesn't know the pin count of the processor he put in his system. I bet you $50 that he doesn't even know the model number and brand of his motherboard, I bet you $100 he just bought some parts and just "stuck them together".

You know how I know this? Because my sister's friend who I've never met except on aim who I at first thought he was pretty experienced because of what he "claimed he did". I later realized that he wasn't when I asked him what model number on his asus board was, he then said, "I don't know, I mean I just bought the parts and stuck them together". I had no clue to what he had so I asked him to go into DXDiag, and have it save all information then send it to me. Turns out he was running a 900 mhz athlon under that thing with integrated video.....

You know I waited until I was 11 before I even opened a machine (was working with computers since I was 3 but only seriously since I was 7). When I finally did open it I first learned about all the peripherals and ports etc.... Then finally when I was 12 I started to disassemble and put back together prebuilt systems. And finally when I was 14 I built a system for my cousin, system ran ok because the family was on a budget and refused to pay much so I got a motherboard combo which turned out to be pretty unstable (I had a feeling this might happen as I was reading the specs of the board in the newspaper). My second built system was rock solid stable even while it was overclocked!

 

[theblackbox]

some of you people make it sound like it is actually difficult or some sort of accomplishment to build a computer. wow...you can buy parts and put them together, and plug them in...amazing... i used to think that building computers was a skill, but honestly, anyone can do it.
comparing it to building cars?....hmmm, thats kind of ridiculous.
if you look at building an engine, transmission, suspension, electric system, etc...there is much more detail and less room for error.
but hey, some of you people can do anything, right, it's the internet... if you can type it, you can do it, at least as long as you remain anonymous.

i just think some people like to get a computer and not put any time (labour) into it. Personally, i'd rather build one then buy one, but to each their own.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Everyone who can build their own car in ~30-60 minutes, raise your hands.

thats wildly optimistic.

add hours on researching parts.
if you already know which parts to buy you've already spent countless hours researching parts
hours shoppin
maybe an hour ripping apart the two dozen boxes that get shipped to you, then another 30 minutes disposing
maybe a few hours driving to shops if u don't order online
atleast an hour trouble shooting or at the very least stability testing

meh, and u still gotta be your own tech support
and 30-60minutes putting it together? not if you want to do a good job with neat wiring. and thats assuming you know how to do this stuff quickly, which only comes from practice on previous systems, and hours spend on them

Ok, add 2 hours of research then, and once you know, 15 minutes of shopping, plus another 15 to go get the package, opening the boxes...well yeah if this takes you 30 minutes, you probably should save all the time you can and spend it in the gym or something

I don't usually bother very much with cabling, I make sure it's functional, but I don't care about neat, and yeah, I guess a fast build time could be attributed to previous building experiences, but then you could also take into account the money saved on those builds vs AW

Anyway, let's make the whole thing 12 hours of work then, that's way more than enough.
So, who can build a car in 12 hours?

Not to mention, if you FUBAR the computer, will it risk killing you when you use it?

Oh and Philippine Mango, Doom III wasn't that bad

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
some of you people make it sound like it is actually difficult or some sort of accomplishment to build a computer. wow...you can buy parts and put them together, and plug them in...amazing... i used to think that building computers was a skill, but honestly, anyone can do it.
comparing it to building cars?....hmmm, thats kind of ridiculous.
if you look at building an engine, transmission, suspension, electric system, etc...there is much more detail and less room for error.
but hey, some of you people can do anything, right, it's the internet... if you can type it, you can do it, at least as long as you remain anonymous.

i just think some people like to get a computer and not put any time (labour) into it. Personally, i'd rather build one then buy one, but to each their own.

You know, people who rebuild cars can say the exact same thing. One thing that has "kept me" in the ignorant world is by having ignorant family members. I hear them say "how do you know which goes where or what processor to use etc..." And I think, hum if I knew as much as my sister and had no clue about intel's processor architecture, compatibility schemes with certian processors, voltage requirements, chipset factors like speeds, efficiency, driver compatibility with that chipset, motherboard manufacturer, chip manufacture/date first released, what capabilities this processor has compared to other processor, history of the fabrication of the processor, micro process etc..

Then I can see why she has no idea what processor etc.. belongs in what type of board with pin out etc... I think most of the higher up people on the anandtech forums have no idea how much they truely know until they think about everything they know about a very specific item like processors. I mean some people don't even know what a processor is and yet some of us can tell us exactally what sized "plate" (I totally forgot the name of it) the intel pentium III katmai core was stamped on.

Yes I guess you can say most people could build a machine if they didn't take the needed procautions like grounding your self from static, making sure that the AGP Video card, PCI card etc... are properly fastened, the processor is perfectly seated and HSF is too,making sure the motherboard isn't going to short out on the case because of mounting scheme, the correct electrical wires used to power on the system are in the right pins (PSU and case), parallel cables are hooked up correctly and NOT backwards, the FDD power cable is not off one pin all while having to make sure that the system boots up properly.

So it's a factor of:

1. General knowledge of each computer component, fabrication process, history of the part, compatibility issues with the part, release of the part, conflict issues with other parts
2. Making sure that all the parts assembled are properly fastened, correct sockets, properly mounted, electrically compatible, wont electricute you!
3. Software issues with particular parts, supported operating systems etc...

I mean in september I knew a bit about cars but not enough to be able to ACTUALLY work on a car and now look at me, 3 months later and I'm re-attaching brake calipers to a car, resurfacing a rotor and I have to do everything in the reverse order when I'm done resurfacing the rotor AND making sure everything is good. Now that I'm seriously working with the car, I realize that cars aren't as complicated as people think. Everything is relative you know, if you know nothing about anything it's very complex like "rocket science" but when you get a full understanding of something it's not so difficult....

 

[Philippine Mango]

[/quote]

Oh and Philippine Mango, Doom III wasn't that bad [/quote]

That gave me a good chuckle!

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

"I mean some people don't even know what a processor is and yet some of us can tell us exactally what sized "plate" (I totally forgot the name of it) the intel pentium III katmai core was stamped on. "

So true. I have a friend who thought the proccesor was the actual computer. I then showed him an Intel Pentium 4 and he was dumbfounded and awed on how small it was

Personally I was so close in getting an Area 51 Alienware PC. Then one day I asked someone in a post in some other forum if ATI or Nvidia was better. He told me it depends (9800 being better than 5900 and 6800 GT being better than x800 Pro). Soon in one of his posts later on in the topic he said build a pc and don't buy it. I was confused on how to build a pc. So I went to google and found anandtech and all was shown clearly before me =) . When I researched for my computer I actually found it enjoyable, and even today, now that I don't need to research anymore, I still read the reviews here just for fun. Building was fun, and I became from a confused newbie on computers to a newbie on computers . I even found troubleshooting fun, it was like some sort of final challenge from the computer gods (I'm crazy right now ). Anyway I am happy that I didn't go with Alienware and I believe anyone who plans ahead and keeps at least a weekend free to him/herself should build. Nothing can beat Dell in low prices and I believe Dell is the way to go if you're going low end and want to save a ton of money (and not overclock). For medium and high end I believe you should build it yourself. And if you absolutely have to buy get a computer from Falcon Northwest (I think Voodoo is a little overpriced and I don't care about how good my case looks and Alienware is extremely overpriced (correct me if I'm wrong) ). If you are concerned about building or testing ask ABS to build it for you (I'm not sure if they do testing also). All I can say is my computer is so freaking awesome!!!!! And I built it!!! W00t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jvarszegi]

Originally posted by: malak
I don't need to go to some random website to know how well Dell's run. My college(ITT Tech) had all Dells and they were fine. I have a Dell and it's just as good as the next PC. In all the tech forums I've ever been too I haven't seen nearly as many issues with Dells as I've seen with custom-built PC's. Dell's support may not be top notch now, but it was once the best around. They simply got overrun by a huge increase in customers because they were known as #1. Everyone went to them. They are probably still building their support back up right now.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".