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Liz Cheney floor speech on truth and our democracy.

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The only way I see Trump winning in 2024 is if the GOP achieves it's political wet dream of only allowing GOP voters to legally vote.
 
I like the hundred or so former Republican peeps threatening to for a new splinter party.
Sounds great until you look at the list of completely boring people endorsing the idea. They are a black hole of fun or anything interesting.

Not saying I like Uber interesting politicians because many of the good ones are very boring people. I am confident the voting public prefers interesting politicians.
 
fskimospy said:
I mean he would have a decent chance insofar as any major party nominee has a ‘decent’ chance of winning.

Unless some catastrophe happens though he would very likely perform worse than in 2020 - it could get very ugly for him.

I mean in the end Biden is popular and Trump is unpopular. Since elections are popularity contests, that’s bad news for Donnie.
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Are you factoring in GOP attempts to steal an election (stricter voting laws, gerrymandering, "recounts", etc)? Seems they've been emboldened (more than they were in 2020) so I think he'll actually have an easier time in 2024, despite his unpopularity.
 
fskimospy said:
I mean he was predicting doom all the way up until Biden won in 2020. Actually, he kept predicting doom even after Biden won, haha.
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He declared himself in a 2016 debate to be the only person who could fix our problems. 550,000 Americans died from covid-19 while he dismissed the pandemic as hokum. They should put a sticker on all 550,000 tombstones or urns, "I fixed your ass good" - DJTrump.
 
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thilanliyan said:
Are you factoring in GOP attempts to steal an election (stricter voting laws, gerrymandering, "recounts", etc)? Seems they've been emboldened (more than they were in 2020) so I think he'll actually have an easier time in 2024, despite his unpopularity.
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Well, gerrymandering wouldn’t help him win the presidency.

If the GOP decides to steal the election then of course all bets are off but in terms of vote performance I think if he and Biden have a rematch Trump will lose by considerably more in 2024 than he lost by in 2020.
 
How long before they drop calling themselves Republicans? Cheney will be an issue that's not going to go away. I'm all for her fight, but a little introspection would make her realize that she's part of the problem with conservatives today. They created a monster with the help of Fox for the last 25 years or so. I have zero sympathy for her predicament, but you go girl, break that china.
 
hal2kilo said:
How long before they drop calling themselves Republicans? Cheney will be an issue that's not going to go away. I'm all for her fight, but a little introspection would make her realize that she's part of the problem with conservatives today. They created a monster with the help of Fox for the last 25 years or so. I have zero sympathy for her predicament, but you go girl, break that china.
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As exciting as the idea is to put someone in position to confront their shame and atone for their sins, what examples in history do you have to suggest that such a thing even exists as a means of resolution. The introspection and atonement may happen post resolution as in Nazi Germany, but in that case the conflict has ceased and the introspection and atonement are attached to the recovery phase. Personally, this is the nature of humanity. And my advice is to be conscientious about throwing stones. As we have such abundant example, clearly there can be a perceptual problem significant enough as to allow generally functional people to be completely unaware of the glass house surrounding them. What do you make of the notion that you can be certain you yourself are unsusceptible to the same fault? I know I am not different in this way, and my experience leads me to believe that such a deficit is inherently human to the extent that the potential to find ourselves in that position is by design.

I thought of an interesting visual I think @Moonbeam would appreciate here. The glass houses we make are one-way mirror glass. Of course we don't recognize they are made of glass. We can't see out of them. The real question is why do we think we're staring at the outside world instead of recognizing our own reflections?
 
kage69 said:
Still unbelieveable the criminal hasn't been permanently banned from holding office. Failures that bad should never be allowed to ooze back into a position to harm the nation again.
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I still want to know why he isn't already barred by section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
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Perhaps the courts should decide IF Trump is allowed to run in 2024.
 
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interchange said:
As exciting as the idea is to put someone in position to confront their shame and atone for their sins, what examples in history do you have to suggest that such a thing even exists as a means of resolution. The introspection and atonement may happen post resolution as in Nazi Germany, but in that case the conflict has ceased and the introspection and atonement are attached to the recovery phase. Personally, this is the nature of humanity. And my advice is to be conscientious about throwing stones. As we have such abundant example, clearly there can be a perceptual problem significant enough as to allow generally functional people to be completely unaware of the glass house surrounding them. What do you make of the notion that you can be certain you yourself are unsusceptible to the same fault? I know I am not different in this way, and my experience leads me to believe that such a deficit is inherently human to the extent that the potential to find ourselves in that position is by design.

I thought of an interesting visual I think @Moonbeam would appreciate here. The glass houses we make are one-way mirror glass. Of course we don't recognize they are made of glass. We can't see out of them. The real question is why do we think we're staring at the outside world instead of recognizing our own reflections?
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Sorry, too much both sides.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
I like the hundred or so former Republican peeps threatening to for a new splinter party.
Sounds great until you look at the list of completely boring people endorsing the idea. They are a black hole of fun or anything interesting.

Not saying I like Uber interesting politicians because many of the good ones are very boring people. I am confident the voting public prefers interesting politicians.
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Interesting, I read the article featured on the front page of the NYTimes online the last few days about Mathew McConaughey considering a run at the TX governorship. People, many/most don't seem to know what to make of it. Boring I suppose he isn't. I rally dug True Detective, and I've seen one of his movies and liked that. Probably more entertaining that Arnold, who was kind of a hack IMO as an actor. Arnold was better than most Republicans, though. MM, I don't know what party he'd represent.
 
Muse said:
Interesting, I read the article featured on the front page of the NYTimes online the last few days about Mathew McConaughey considering a run at the TX governorship. People, many/most don't seem to know what to make of it. Boring I suppose he isn't. I rally dug True Detective, and I've seen one of his movies and liked that. Probably more entertaining that Arnold, who was kind of a hack IMO as an actor. Arnold was better than most Republicans, though. MM, I don't know what party he'd represent.
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And if I remember correctly, he destroys Abbot in polls if he ran.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
I like the hundred or so former Republican peeps threatening to for a new splinter party.
Sounds great until you look at the list of completely boring people endorsing the idea. They are a black hole of fun or anything interesting.

Not saying I like Uber interesting politicians because many of the good ones are very boring people. I am confident the voting public prefers interesting politicians.
Click to expand...

Biden is kind of a bore and he got 7 million more votes than Trump, who isn't really a bore so much as [every other bad thing a human can be].
 
A Cheney is a Cheney. I couldn't stand Dick and I can't stand her or any of the other warmongers. Good riddance.
Trump won because of a perfect storm. I'm not saying I would support a second round, but Biden administration may be unintentionally setting up perfect storm 2.0

Southern border is a mess. Crossings or attempts are at a 20 year high. Seems like the Democrats don't care to do anything about it.
Gas prices
Worst inflation since 2008
Israel situation
Poor job growth

We're just over 100 days in, so any more Biden can fuck up is beneficial to the GOP.
 
You know…. Who cares???
Republicans have been obsessed with destroying the country when in leadership and now that they are not in leadership they then go after one another. Republicans just want something to piss on even if that is one of their own. I say let them have at it and I wish them every success at doing.
 
compuwiz1 said:
A Cheney is a Cheney. I couldn't stand Dick and I can't stand her or any of the other warmongers. Good riddance.
Trump won because of a perfect storm. I'm not saying I would support a second round, but Biden administration may be unintentionally setting up perfect storm 2.0

Southern border is a mess. Crossings or attempts are at a 20 year high. Seems like the Democrats don't care to do anything about it.
Gas prices
Worst inflation since 2008
Israel situation
Poor job growth

We're just over 100 days in, so any more Biden can fuck up is beneficial to the GOP.
Click to expand...
I don't know, wasn't there, or isn't there a pandemic going on, that's finally starting to wind down. Something, something....
 
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