Living in satellite internet hell, have question about DSL signal extension

[Rodknock]

Well, my family and I moved a few months ago into a rural area and satellite internet was the only readily available internet option. Everyone here is already fed up with it, with everything from the laughable overstated throughput claims "1.5mbit" means "1.5mbit at 3am, 600kb from 8am to 10pm".

However, there is a tiny ray of light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe.

When I originally called to inquire about DSL, they said I could get it, barely, ie I would have to be at the lowest speed package because the signal was so weak, I'm basically at the max signal distance of the nearest substation or whatever you call it.

Is it possible, and by that I mean financially possible, to have a signal repeater installed on the line so that my area gets a fully strength DSL signal out here? Is this something that's in the range of 5-10k, or 100k+?

I'm really a fish out of water here, know next to nothing about this kind of stuff. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

 

[bruceb]

There is a way to extend it, but not sure how much it
costs and the ISP / LEC must buy and install the extender.
You may have to pay for it, especially if it will be for just 1
customer. It can extend service up to 30,000 Feet from the
central office or double what the normal distance max of 15-18K
feet was.

http://www.widearea.us/

Your LEC needs to get this item:

Widearea's AER800, please have your ISP / ADSL provider contact us for additional information.

 

[Rodknock]

No one else has any clue as to what I'm talking about?

 

[xSauronx]

can you get Cingular or someone for wireless internet? how about a wireless ISP based out of Saramento (im assuming you list your proper home city in your profile)? maybe from Roseville? check here">http://www.bbwexchange.com/wisps/california-wisps.asp</a>

wireless ISPs can offer good service, comparable to DSL. the install price is usually hefty, and the monthly prices will be similar to satellite.

 

[Rodknock]

Sorry, Carmichael was my previous address city, I've moved since then. I'm now in Pilot Hill, which is about 30 miles from Sacramento.

No cell service, so EV-DO is out of the question.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
Sorry, Carmichael was my previous address city, I've moved since then. I'm now in Pilot Hill, which is about 30 miles from Sacramento.

No cell service, so EV-DO is out of the question.

looks like the middle of nowhere. yipes

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
No one else has any clue as to what I'm talking about?

I think other people have a clue, but there is no good answer beyond what bruceb gave you, and that's only going to work if you can get the provider interested in doing something about it.

Maybe a point-to-point line-of-site radio connection with someone who is closer and has a better link? My folks have a place in rural Quebec and are in the exact same boat. There just aren't a lot of options when you don't have the infrastructure.

 

[RebateMonger]

All you can do is talk to whoever provides DSL in your area (http://broadbandreports.com/search) and see what they offer. There are business versions of DSL that have longer range. But you'll pay.

I live in the midst of a large metropolitan area, and it was YEARS before I could get cable modem. The DSL providers refused to service me (18,000 feet from the Central Office), and Cox kept offering to give me Cable Modem (even scheduling installation appointments), and then backing out.

I had Sprint Broadband (two-way RF) for a while. Downloads were good (3 Mbps or so), but uploads (important to me) were at LESS than 28.8K Modem speed. Ping times were random, ranging up to 1.5 SECONDS. Try doing online gaming that way. Most gaming servers kick you off the server or don't allow you to join a game.

 

[compman25]

Didn't you ask this same question back in Jan or something?

 

[Rodknock]

Compman: Yes, I asked a similar question a few months ago, before I actually moved to this house, before getting satellite internet, etc. And if I may, that thread was hijacked by an ego-tripping jackass and the whole thing went nowhere after that, so I figured I'd try again.

Thanks for the info you guys, every little scrap helps. I have contacted ATT, which is the main DSL provider out here, (and who I have phone service through), but the only point of contact I have with them is their tech and sales call centers.

My next question is, what department should I be talking to in order to actually get in contact with someone who can tell me yay or nay if something can be done? I either end up with a charming, elderly lady in the sales department who knows nothing, or an Indian, completely incomprehensible idiot from the tech support department.

Do I need to be talking to more the corporate side of the company, or maybe a contractor that actually installs the hardware for the company? I've probably spent a good half a day total on the phone with various companies' tech support and sales lines, I think I've lost a few years off my life just from dealing with them...and consequently getting nowhere.

 

[cmetz]

Rodknock, the short answer is no.

What can be done is to install a remote terminal nearer to your neighborhood, run fiber from the CO to the RT, and serve POTS lines and DSL lines out of the RT. Telcos will generally do this if there is a lot of new construction going into an area, and they don't want to keep running copper trunk bundles out from the CO. (they basically don't build new COs anymore) This is a large expense and requires lots of permits and approvals and infrastructure, and they aren't going to do it just for you. And certainly not for DSL.

The best option you really have is to go in with a few neighbors on a T1. LECs are generally required to deliver a T1 tail circuit anywhere, and install whatever active equipment (repeaters) are necessary to make that work. Please note that LECs are generally allowed to charge you for the privilege (the dreaded "special construction charges").

AFAIK the engineering department makes the determinations about things like RTs. Telcos try very, very hard to make sure that you can never talk with the engineering department. Good luck.

 

[skyking]

I'm looking at the map now. How far are you from Cool?
What is available there? can you see Cool from your home site?
What a name for a town, Cool

 

[Rodknock]

I'm 4 miles from Cool. It's not visible from my actual residence because the immediate area is rather hilly, which makes wireless nearly out of the question because of no LoS.

cmetz, is it alright if I PM you for a bit more info on the T1 possibility?

 

[drebo]

There are some point-to-point wireless that don't need line-of-sight. You can also mount them on towers to get them above the trees if you need to.

There are some available that do 300Mbps at 60 miles.

Making a deal with a business in town and using a point-to-point bridge is probably your best (and cheapest) bet.

 

[Rodknock]

I'm sorry, did you say 300Mbps?

Any relevant links for something like that? Not for local ISPs, as I've got pretty much every phone number and website known to man for all the local ISPs here, but as far as the technology, I've never even heard of something with that kind of throughput at 60 miles...you're not joking or something?

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
I'm sorry, did you say 300Mbps?

Any relevant links for something like that? Not for local ISPs, as I've got pretty much every phone number and website known to man for all the local ISPs here, but as far as the technology, I've never even heard of something with that kind of throughput at 60 miles...you're not joking or something?

my first thought was "motorola" and, sure enough, googling took me to this

google Motorola PTP 600, youll get pointed to ebay and an auction for a 2 radio kit starting at over $15K...well ill just get you set Text

i used the canopy stuff, none of these, but theyre good stuff, for sure.

wlanmall.com carries their gear, as well, but you have to login to get a price

thing is, they make much cheaper, very good, wireless gear in the 900/2.4/5.2/5.7 spectrums, but you dont get that kind of bandwidth.

and if you have a hill in between you and whatever you might want to get a connection from, youll need two sets

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
Everyone here is already fed up with it, with everything from the laughable overstated throughput claims "1.5mbit" means "1.5mbit at 3am, 600kb from 8am to 10pm".

I suppose it's obvious, but don't forget that a T1 is 1.5Mbps up/1.5Mbps down. If you SHARE that T1 line with somebody, and they decide to download a big file at the same time you do, you'll be back to those 600Kbs download speeds.

 

[cmetz]

Rodknock, sure, no problem. Happy to help if I can.

RebateMonger, upside to a T1 over sat is (1) latency, (2) maybe doing some QoS, and (3) at least you can have contention with people you know and can make some gentlemen's agreements about it. It also depends a lot on how many people you're talking about sharing it among...

 

[Rodknock]

I just got some great news today.

There's a local ISP here, Central Valley Broadband (www.calwisp.com). They're trying to get a large wireless signal-blanket over several of the nearby towns, and the tower for my town just went live two days ago. So now, I have access to 3Mbps wireless through them. I've already set up a site survey just to absolutely-confirm it, and install will come shortly after, if all goes wel. What are your guys' thoughts on this sort of tech?

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
I just got some great news today.

There's a local ISP here, Central Valley Broadband (www.calwisp.com). They're trying to get a large wireless signal-blanket over several of the nearby towns, and the tower for my town just went live two days ago. So now, I have access to 3Mbps wireless through them. I've already set up a site survey just to absolutely-confirm it, and install will come shortly after, if all goes wel. What are your guys' thoughts on this sort of tech?

this is what i was talking about with the motorola equipment. i worked for a wISP for a year and the service was quite reliable, and low-latency. in fact, i wouldnt be surprised if they used motorola gear, though it could be any of a number of other products.

its good stuff. id hope they arent overselling bandwidth, thatd be my only real concern. the company i worked for acquired half a dozen other companies and they *all* oversold their bandwidth and those customers had lousy service until we upgraded the backbones.

and itll be cheap compared to a T1 or anything else you were considering. the website pricing is typical for this type of service.

keep in mind when looking at speeds that the BURST usually lasts no more than 20 seconds. its great for webpages and emails, which dont take that long. larger downloads get throttled to whatever your monthly plan has as a limit.

 

[drebo]

Originally posted by: Rodknock
I just got some great news today.

There's a local ISP here, Central Valley Broadband (www.calwisp.com). They're trying to get a large wireless signal-blanket over several of the nearby towns, and the tower for my town just went live two days ago. So now, I have access to 3Mbps wireless through them. I've already set up a site survey just to absolutely-confirm it, and install will come shortly after, if all goes wel. What are your guys' thoughts on this sort of tech?

My only reservation is that the above-ground power lines throughout the Central Valley in California have a terrible effect on these kinds of service. In the location where I am (~90 miles south of Sacramento) we have two wireless ISPs and they're both terrible. Hell, I can barely get good cellphone signal where I live. Above-ground power lines.

Maybe it's not as big an issue where you are, though.

 

[Rodknock]

The only major problem I have with this ISP is this...and I've actually never heard of something this bad:

They actually have something that monitors your activity, and strictly do not allow any kind of peer 2 peer file sharing whatsoever. If they find out you're doing it via whatever program they have that monitors it, they cut off your access for X amount of time. How utterly nasty is that. Not even Comcast is that bad.

Would something like Peer Guardian mask that kind of usage, or is there absolutely no way around this? I don't actually use anything like Limewire (does that even exist anymore?) or Kazaa anymore, but I did do my fair share of torrenting (Top Gear episodes from finalgear.com especially), I'm wondering if they pick that kind of stuff out. Is this type of policy even legal, or am I being naive?