Agreed. Although expensive, a good tutor will motivate your sister. Or if your parents are more hands on and work doesn't get in the way of this, they can also try to tutor her, but usually that is hard to do because parents are too clsoe to the situation.
Agreed. Although expensive, a good tutor will motivate your sister. Or if your parents are more hands on and work doesn't get in the way of this, they can also try to tutor her, but usually that is hard to do because parents are too clsoe to the situation.
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
The problem is that putting her in a higher level class will probably still not challenge her. Schools offer very little critical thinking and problem solving skills all the way until college. And even then, it isn't until upper division classes of a few select majors where it really requires it.
This is true. That is why accelerated after school program are always a good thing. I didn't wake up until my 3rd year in college when things actually started to get interesting. But I was so far behind by then, it took me a lot of hard work to do well again.
Tutors help, but are expensive. I figure since you are saying private school though, that doesn't really matter too much. Get your parents to enjoy stopping in to see how her school work is going (not in a negative way, but in a positive), and praise her when she is really going through her school work. Then she will associate her effort (not necessarily her grades, but eventually that too) with her parents being proud of her. Don't reward her with monetary gifts or anything like that, but special praise for doing well or working hard. Every kid responds differently to different stimuli.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
Bored? Who cares - the child needs to realize that if the grades are bad and/or the work doesn't get done, there are consequences for it. If the child really is bright, but is simply bored with the work, then why not take the 5 minutes to just get the work done?
You do not reward a child for disobeying instruction or rules. I have this issue with my son daily. He is extremely intelligent, but stubborn. He thinks he is too good/too smart to do the menial work put before him. Well guess what... if he doesn't do his work, then he won't get to do more advanced things, he'll likely get held back in class, have to do the same thing over again, and be even more bored.
As a note: I had the same problem in school myself. After a point, I lost the person responsible for authority in my life and decided to do it my own way. Let me just say that my life has suffered because of it. I now wish I could have gone back and did things the right way now, but it's too late for that.
You do not reward a child for disobeying instruction or rules. I have this issue with my son daily. He is extremely intelligent, but stubborn. He thinks he is too good/too smart to do the menial work put before him. Well guess what... if he doesn't do his work, then he won't get to do more advanced things, he'll likely get held back in class, have to do the same thing over again, and be even more bored.
As a note: I had the same problem in school myself. After a point, I lost the person responsible for authority in my life and decided to do it my own way. Let me just say that my life has suffered because of it. I now wish I could have gone back and did things the right way now, but it's too late for that.
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
Who cares? You should as a good parent. Why would you want to inhibit your child's gift of intelligence by having them sit there for hours doing routine and meaningless work? Children doesn't learn effectively by forcing themselves through hours of work that bores them. Children learns effectively if they have a desire to understand the material. Edison didn't become the master of inventors forcing himself to do hours of busy work that has little to contribute to his understanding of things. He became a master beause his mom realized his potential and took him out of school so he can persue his passions. Maybe you should reconsider what you think is best for your child.
Very common for a number of different reasons. Social problems, learning disabilities, uncommon learning styles, boredom, etc. In my opinion rule out the testable factors first. Hit a Sylvan or similar center and find out if she has any disabilities or quirks of learning that are hindering her. Visit a doctor and make sure everything is okie dokie, especially with headaches, sight, hearing, etc. Get her an intelligence battery administered by a cognitive specialist. Once all those are gone work closely with teachers and staff to check on the social issues. There's always child counseling as well to check on any psych difficulties. In my experience tutors/difficulty with material is usually the least of the problems.
This happenned with me, too. I had Cs and Ds in math in 5th grade, yet I still placed in the top 50 per grade nationally in various competitions. The problem was that the homework/classwork was a total waste of time for me and I realized it. By middle school though, I started actually doing the work, since I realized that getting bad grades is not good. Just let her grow up.
That can work on some people, but not on others. There is no 'right way' because not everyone is the same - cognitively or psychologically. I failed out myself, mostly for the same reasons. My parents tried the hardline approach which just put us at war. Once I was an adult I did it my own way, succeeded, and then mended fences as well as I was able. *shrug* not saying this is true for everyone, but there's a LOT of research that shows that this attitude you exemplify is really what's wrong in the first place.
I used to pull this stuff all the time. Fail a random class one semester and then pull a perfect 100 in it without doing barely any work. It's an interest thing, and the materially is not necessarily boring (that it is work makes it boring).
The reason why she does so well in the math competitions is probably exposure. She barely does her homework, wings it on the test (and is forced to figure things out for the first time), takes a week for it to spin in her mind and gel, then she understands the concepts by the time the competition comes around and smokes everybody. I know exactly how this works. I can't tell you how many tests I took where I had no clue going in but figured everything out during the exam. Sometimes you screw up the test because of lack of exposure going in, but I bet you she could take an exam the next day and do 50% better every time.
That's how people like her work. They figure things out when they are put under pressure to do so, then they finally make the correlations that allow them to conceptually understand something. Afterward, when put under similar pressure, the task can become ridiculously easy. Homework, however, will be nigh impossible because it is non-imperative and full of possibilities. There are so many assumptions you can make on a test that will simplify a problem, and there are virtually no distractions and no feeling that you can always do it later.
The reason why she does so well in the math competitions is probably exposure. She barely does her homework, wings it on the test (and is forced to figure things out for the first time), takes a week for it to spin in her mind and gel, then she understands the concepts by the time the competition comes around and smokes everybody. I know exactly how this works. I can't tell you how many tests I took where I had no clue going in but figured everything out during the exam. Sometimes you screw up the test because of lack of exposure going in, but I bet you she could take an exam the next day and do 50% better every time.
That's how people like her work. They figure things out when they are put under pressure to do so, then they finally make the correlations that allow them to conceptually understand something. Afterward, when put under similar pressure, the task can become ridiculously easy. Homework, however, will be nigh impossible because it is non-imperative and full of possibilities. There are so many assumptions you can make on a test that will simplify a problem, and there are virtually no distractions and no feeling that you can always do it later.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
Is she hyperactive? Maybe she finds it hard to stay on task even though she is intelligent enough.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
As I said - if it truly is mundane for the child, and the child is as intelligent as everyone thinks... then the child can and will do the work and excel at it. The hard part is imparting upon the child the fact that, "Yes, I know sweetie... it's boring as all hell... but you know that you can finish this work in 10 minutes, that's hours faster than your classmates. And as soon as you're finished, you can do whatever you want."
You don't simply throw your hands up into the air saying, "Damn kid, you're too smart for this crap. How about instead of learning proper sentence structure, we let you learn about explosives!"
There are standards in this world. If a child is intelligent and is easily bored by the mundane, that does not mean they are exempt from learning the mundane! Sure, explosives can be a good career choice... but so is knowing how to do the math behind the proportions of what chemicals are needed to make the explosives. So is learning how to read properly so that the wrong chemicals are not mixed together.
THAT is what's wrong with America's youth in education. They're too busy doing whatever the hell they want to and ignoring the foundations of what we're built on.
You have a drastically narrow view of the topic. For instance when I went into high school I was doing mostly trig level math (for fun on my own, completely self-taught). Because my grades were so low I was ineligible for any advanced math classes and had to take algebra. I got the book and the first weekend did every problem for every chapter test in the book. I brought those in to the teacher the next monday and explained that I really felt that since I knew the material we should find an alternative for my time. He told me more less to do the same work as everyone else because it's about being the same as everyone else not learning/knowing the subject matter. So that was the last day I went to class.
What I'm driving at is that no one could have convinced me to do otherwise, because of my personality and cognitive abilities. I learned everything that the rest of the class did, but I learned it outside of class, faster, and better than they did. So you can't say that kids don't learn the material - some just don't do it according to limited societal frameworks. This may not be true of this little girl, but it could be a HUGE number of things as I talked about in my first post. To take the 'shut up and do what you're told' attitude negates a century of studies into developmental and cognitive psychology, and could inflict a GREAT DEAL of harm to the child.
To make suggestions on these topics really requires some study into the possibilities. Multiple intelligence theory, gifted and special needs children, learning disabilities, learning styles, personality theory, abnormal psych, developmental psych, cognitive psych, education, etc. Not that all input isn't beneficial in some form, but have the awareness to know the limits of your knowledge versus your opinions.
I would counter your final paragraph by saying it's the attitude which you are stating which is really what's wrong with American education today. It's the framework that is wrong, not the kids within it (although they have other problems). Of course, this is merely my own opinion when it comes down to it, regardless of any knowledge possessed.
I remember refusing to do all or any math homework which involved calculating remainders in division, because it was beneath me to go down to that level when I knew how to divide properly since the 3rd grade. Whenever the teacher wanted to check the homework done, I spent 1-2 minute doing the asked questions quickly so I could get the mark before she checks on me. Got caught a couple of times though. Homework is just a huge waste of time, especially if it's easy for you.
She's probably not getting challenged, and the elementary school system is horrible at helping better then average children. Nothing you can do will change the fact she is not going to do the homework, other then to keep her challenged and see if the school can give her that challenge.
She's probably not getting challenged, and the elementary school system is horrible at helping better then average children. Nothing you can do will change the fact she is not going to do the homework, other then to keep her challenged and see if the school can give her that challenge.
You need to kill her now before she talks, can't let that thing get out into the public you know... We do these things in the interest of the people, don't ever question us, it's for the good of america.
Toastedlightly
Diamond Member
- Aug 7, 2004
- 7,215
- 6
- 81
I did the same thing. Went to private school on the East Coast and then when we moved to Texas, I realized I had already been taught this stuff in 2nd grade while I was in 4th grade. I stopped doing all my work and just zoned out in class. Parents didn't realize till much later because I always did well enough on the tests and quizzes to pull a good enough grade. I didn't start learning anything even remotely new until 7th or 8th grade, and even then, most of it was review. When they finally realized, a lot of other things were on my parents minds, and i just kind of was left to figure stuff out myself. Not that they weren't great parents that tried really hard to do what was best, it is just they were dealing with stuff that was much more of a concern at the time.
I learned that even in High school and college I could do things half-assed and just cram at the end and get something passable. We all learn our lesson on our own time.
irishScott
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2006
- 21,562
- 3
- 0
QFT. My school had the GT (Gifted and Talented) center for above average kids. I however, had a neurological disability that greatly limited my processing time I had (and still have
) an insane IQ, but below-average processing ability, thus it took me a longer time and more effort to learn a subject then my peers, but once I did I understood it so thoroughly I could get 100s on every exam involving said subject. Problem was, I didn't get diagnosed until 6th grade, so my low grades kept me out of the GT center. Thus I was a lone smart kid among hundreds of comparatively stupid people (which sucked). Since I wasn't being explicatively challenged, I lost all motivation to do well in class. If it didn't come easy, I didn't do the work. I also became extremely antisocial, since the kids I was forced to work with simply didn't understand what I was talking about when it came to the deeper details of academia, and weren't even remotely interested in what I was.
In short, she just has to be challenged, and see some purpose to what she is doing. Almost all classes from 3rd grade to the end of high school are "memorize, regurgitate, do well on tests so the principle can get a raise, rinse and repeat" Find out what she's interested in, and point out how getting good grades can help her attain it. Sooner or later she will just develop the discipline to work hard.
Also, get her tested by a Psychologist who's on good terms with the school system to ensure that there are no learning disabilities (if there are, seek accommodations), and test her for advanced classes. If she's put into those classes, the excellence of her peers will also drive her to do better. One of the few good forms of peer pressure IMO.
Originally posted by: irishScott
QFT. My school had the GT (Gifted and Talented) center for above average kids. I however, had a neurological disability that greatly limited my processing time I had (and still have
Since I wasn't being explicatively challenged, I lost all motivation to do well in class. If it didn't come easy, I didn't do the work. I also became extremely antisocial, since the kids I was forced to work with simply didn't understand what I was talking about when it came to the deeper details of academia, and weren't even remotely interested in what I was.
In short, she just has to be challenged, and see some purpose to what she is doing. Almost all classes from 3rd grade to the end of high school are "memorize, regurgitate, do well on tests so the principle can get a raise, rinse and repeat" Find out what she's interested in, and point out how getting good grades can help her attain it. Sooner or later she will just develop the discipline to work hard.
Also, get her tested by a Psychologist who's on good terms with the school system to ensure that there are no learning disabilities (if there are, seek accommodations), and test her for advanced classes. If she's put into those classes, the excellence of her peers will also drive her to do better. One of the few good forms of peer pressure IMO.
Yeah, my teachers bumped me up to GT in 4th grade when I came here because all I did was sleep and doodle in class yet I did well on tests. The GT class didn't much help. It is really just a label. I know plenty of people who were in the GT program, but they weren't all that smart, just really hard working. Seriously, school does nothing unless you have drive and work ethic. Intelligence is really a limiting factor in success. Average intelligence with drive and work ethic anyday over very intelligent with laziness.
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