Listen you freaking IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!! OBVIOUSLY I DIDN'T MAKE THIS BIG ENOUGH TO READ!!!!!!

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

Actually you're saying people as a group are stupid. You can't blame Joe Sixpack going to the station after work to fill up his car, after all, gas prices are climbing like crazy and he realizes (correctly) that if he waits, he might end up getting screwed over on the price...or worse, they won't have any gas. Maybe Joe realizes that if people would just behave rationally and see the big picture, we'd be fine. But that's not happening, so Joe hits up the nearest Amaco on his way home from work. And can you blame him?

Now multiply that by millions of other Americans, who might realize what the problem is, but they are powerless to do anything about it, and they don't want to be stuck with the short end of the stick. Who can you point at and tell them they are stupid? They are just doing what a reasonable person faced with a rapidly increasing price of a necessity would do.

It's not people being stupid, it's a real logical dilemma. All it takes is a few idiots, and gas stations providing the spark, and it's inevitable that a panic will happen. The only way to avert something like this is if everyone trusts everyone else to do the thing that's right for the group. And there is nothing in our society that makes ME trust everybody to do that, so why should anybody else? I'll admit it seems kind of stupid (kind of REALLY stupid), but it's not as simple as people being smart, it requries either individuals having control over other individuals, or individuals willing to trust others with their ability to get to work. Our society is simply not set up to allow that sort of thing.

 

[Pabster]

OFF TO THE GAS PUMPS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!

Excuse me while I purchase a few more contracts ROFLMAO

 

[lrad50]

Good post, I just wish the other hundreds of millions of Americans saw this.

 

[Kev]

9.5/10

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

Actually you're saying people as a group are stupid. You can't blame Joe Sixpack going to the station after work to fill up his car, after all, gas prices are climbing like crazy and he realizes (correctly) that if he waits, he might end up getting screwed over on the price...or worse, they won't have any gas. Maybe Joe realizes that if people would just behave rationally and see the big picture, we'd be fine. But that's not happening, so Joe hits up the nearest Amaco on his way home from work. And can you blame him?

Now multiply that by millions of other Americans, who might realize what the problem is, but they are powerless to do anything about it, and they don't want to be stuck with the short end of the stick. Who can you point at and tell them they are stupid? They are just doing what a reasonable person faced with a rapidly increasing price of a necessity would do.

It's not people being stupid, it's a real logical dilemma. All it takes is a few idiots, and gas stations providing the spark, and it's inevitable that a panic will happen. The only way to avert something like this is if everyone trusts everyone else to do the thing that's right for the group. And there is nothing in our society that makes ME trust everybody to do that, so why should anybody else? I'll admit it seems kind of stupid (kind of REALLY stupid), but it's not as simple as people being smart, it requries either individuals having control over other individuals, or individuals willing to trust others with their ability to get to work. Our society is simply not set up to allow that sort of thing.

What you and BD keep emphasizing is group think. You both keep saying that as a group people will do X once they see other people do X. Well, maybe some do, and maybe you do, but I don't. I guess thats why I always do my own thing and I am independent.

Group think is simply a collection of the weak-minded and those who need someone to follow. Your rationalization of their behavior is actually rather sickening. If everyone was individualistic then we could actually work together BETTER on many things. If individuals realize that the *best* thing for them is to not act like a nutjob and spread hysteria about gas prices then they'd do it. Group think, however, catches on and they get caught up in the rush and act like a lemming. Why you are defending this I have zero clue.

You are defending Group think as some type of societal necessity -- almost as if murderers, rapists, and thieves are necessary as well. Just because something is prevalent or occurs in all socities doesn't mean it can be rationalized as moral or good behavior.

Screwing yourself over for temporary pleasure is the ultimate backasswards indulgence in life. Same reason people use drugs, drink, etc. I've done all of those things before, but you learn from them quite quickly. I'm asking people to use the same logic here. Mass panic and chaos are not conducive to helping prevent high gas prices or to getting some quick cheap gas. If you drink a lot you get a hangover and you start learning to reduce consumption and not fvck yourself. You get painful self-education. Well, apparently, even after this past year of the same retardation every time prices rise the people continue. I guess it will take a lot of painful education before they realize that panic and rushing to the pump does more harm than good.

Go ahead and continue to defend such carnal yet entirely illogical behavior.

If it feels good do it. Right?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: MaxFusion16

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

why do you keep calling "them" idiots and selfish? Are you not human? Are you not selfish?

It's not that people don't realize this game theory, so what if they do understand it.

People will still go and get gas. It's just human instinct to prepare for the worst, we all fear the unknown, no one knows if gas will go up or down next week, so with what's been happening most people would rather be safe than sorry. We are not controlled by a collective hive mind.

On the other hand, let me ask you this. If you saw everyone running to the bank to withdraw, would you be safe and do so as well or stand outside calling everyone idiots while they are cashing your money?

What I said to Rainsford is wholly applicable to you. Just because people and/or groups do it does not mean it should be rationalized and written off as "just life." There is no need for a collective hive mind -- all people have to do is stay calm and have a slight smidgen of gray matter between their ears and all will be fine. The morons and the easily panicked, however, will continue to screw themselves. I'll pay the same prices as you, but I'll at least be laughing at all the idiots complaining. They did it to themselves.

 

[tbrooks40]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: PG
What a fvcking waste. How many little attention whores do we have on this board who feel the need to start their own thread for everything they feel like saying?

The title says "Listen you freaking idiots." Obviously you felt it was applicable to you because you clicked the thread and read it. Don't feel so bad for responding to my call for you.

OMG, I love this guy!

Why are there sooooo many people arguing against what is obviously the truth! those arguing against this guy are just doing so b/c they don't like him or his views! Not one of you have even come close to disputing his point - just a bunch of whining and personal attacks.

The title of this thread seemed like it would have kept most of you morons away but alas your egos demanded a reply no matter how futile they are. For you to even attempt to argue a point against simple facts tells us how simple and childish some of your really are.

 

[Pocatello]

I agree, let's not making it worse than it is. Luckily I haven't seen any fuel shortage where I live, this could change very quickly though

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

 

[tbrooks40]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

no you wouldn't be an idiot... if you didn't just stop there! explain to members of your family exactly why you didn't fill up today and why you are biting the bullet and buying gas at a later date even though the prices are higher.

we have to start somewhere is my point. i just got an email from my mother that our family and many others aren't buying ANY gas tomorrow, Sept. 1, 2005 in an coordinated effort to make a difference.

i would urge that we all try a little harder to beat back our egos so we can better use this and many other boards like it to make a difference as this is a crisis at this point. i know some of you don't agree with that but in time maybe you will see how bad things have gone and that they are probably gonna get worse.

to those who believe this is a problem that is only getting worse, maybe we can start a thread to brainstorm ideas like i mentioned above.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: tbrooks40

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: PG
What a fvcking waste. How many little attention whores do we have on this board who feel the need to start their own thread for everything they feel like saying?

The title says "Listen you freaking idiots." Obviously you felt it was applicable to you because you clicked the thread and read it. Don't feel so bad for responding to my call for you.

OMG, I love this guy!

Why are there sooooo many people arguing against what is obviously the truth! those arguing against this guy is just doing so b/c they don't like him or his views! Not one of you have even come close to disputing his point - just a bunch of whining and personal attacks.

The title of this thread seemed like it would have kept most of you morons away but alas your egos demanded a reply no matter how futile they are. For you to even attempt to argue a point against simple facts tells us how simple and childish some of your really are.

...

Whoops, quoted the wrong thing.

 

[erikistired]

people here are filling up boats and everything else. assholes. however the governor's office is taking reports of price gouging. hopefully they'll shutdown the chevron down the street.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: tbrooks40

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

no you wouldn't be an idiot... if you didn't just stop there! explain to members of your family exactly why you didn't fill up today and why you are biting the bullet and buying gas at a later date even though the prices are higher.

we have to start somewhere is my point. i just got an email from my mother that our family and many others aren't buying ANY gas tomorrow, Sept. 1, 2005 in an coordinated effort to make a difference.

I would like nothing more than to do that. At the same time, I have to drive somewhere this weekend, and I'm not willing to gamble that the rest of the people out there won't make a run on the gas stations and leave me unable to fill up my tank.

Look, I hate this as much as you do. But I'm just not sure we as individuals can make a difference. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I just don't see it happening. We're not quite to the Star Trek utopia society yet 😉

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

If people were educated or even wanted to be educated about Oil/Gas instead of just watching the TV and then wigging out we would work fine as individuals. I'm saying being individualistic is much better than engaging in group think, actually.

People are lazy. They don't care, they watch TV, eat McDonald's and sit around with their thumb in their asses. I don't expect them to change until the prices get even higher and they realize with mass panic and stupidity will cause. It seems the only way to educate most people is to hurt them financially or physically.

Emotional pain just leads to a bunch of magnetic flags on SUVs and saying get them damn Arabs. 😛 It didn't last and it wouldn't because it wasn't real. You start making people pay 4 bucks a gallon for gas and you bet your ass they will reduce demand or at least stop inciting mass panic. There is plenty of help and changes the government has temporarily implemented that WOULD have made future gas prices not as much of a gamble. The people, however, were not informed. I bet you could ask 100 residents what the SPR was and what Bush did to it and about 5 would know. That's ignorance, not looking out for themselves. It is simply inexcusable to not know after this disaster that the government would be helping to stabilize prices and to just remain calm.

My pyschology is that people are big, dumb, lazy idiots and sometimes the only way to get through to them is to slap the sh!t out of them, yell at them with profanity laced speech with flying saliva, or make them pay 4.00 a gallon for gas. Any of those things typically gets their attention.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: tbrooks40

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

no you wouldn't be an idiot... if you didn't just stop there! explain to members of your family exactly why you didn't fill up today and why you are biting the bullet and buying gas at a later date even though the prices are higher.

we have to start somewhere is my point. i just got an email from my mother that our family and many others aren't buying ANY gas tomorrow, Sept. 1, 2005 in an coordinated effort to make a difference.

I would like nothing more than to do that. At the same time, I have to drive somewhere this weekend, and I'm not willing to gamble that the rest of the people out there won't make a run on the gas stations and leave me unable to fill up my tank.

Look, I hate this as much as you do. But I'm just not sure we as individuals can make a difference. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I just don't see it happening. We're not quite to the Star Trek utopia society yet 😉

Read my above post -- I think we pretty much agree. I'm just as pessimistic, but yelling and ranting about it makes me feel better and will rattle a couple of idiots enough to make me laugh. After yelling, slapping, and financial penalties, however, I have faith we can beat them into submission.

 

[KMurphy]

Mill, I agree with most of your post. I didn't read the rest of the thread but there is very little refined storage capacity in the country. The stock market decided that keeping inventory on hand was very bad for the corporate world (refiners included). If that wasn't enough, the government taxed inventory or stores or refined fuels. To kill two birds with one stone, refiners demolished most of their tank farms resulting in lower overhead, more profits and less taxes.

No that there is no stored refined product and feedstock is constrained to LA refiners (almost 1Mb/d), extreme fuel shortages begine regardless of how much or little consumers buy. In the next two weeks, there will be more demand for fuels that will be global capacity. The gov has already talked about relaxing the botique fuel blends standard to expidite foreign fuel deliveries; however that fuel is 2 - 6 weeks away by ship.

I'm just thankful I live in a rural environment where I can hunt for meat and grow my own veggies. People jammed up in cities over the country will all start to see how New Orleans feels when there are no more deliveries of fresh produce.

 

[Nebor]

Gas could be $5 a gallon and I wouldn't give a damn.

Why do you people keep going on?

 

[thereds]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
Not everyone is economists, not everyone is apparently as smart as you are. We buy when it's cheaper because of that exact same reason.

Shut your pie hole and move on.

Not everyone is grammatically correct either.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: tbrooks40

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

no you wouldn't be an idiot... if you didn't just stop there! explain to members of your family exactly why you didn't fill up today and why you are biting the bullet and buying gas at a later date even though the prices are higher.

we have to start somewhere is my point. i just got an email from my mother that our family and many others aren't buying ANY gas tomorrow, Sept. 1, 2005 in an coordinated effort to make a difference.

I would like nothing more than to do that. At the same time, I have to drive somewhere this weekend, and I'm not willing to gamble that the rest of the people out there won't make a run on the gas stations and leave me unable to fill up my tank.

Look, I hate this as much as you do. But I'm just not sure we as individuals can make a difference. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I just don't see it happening. We're not quite to the Star Trek utopia society yet 😉

Read my above post -- I think we pretty much agree. I'm just as pessimistic, but yelling and ranting about it makes me feel better and will rattle a couple of idiots enough to make me laugh. After yelling, slapping, and financial penalties, however, I have faith we can beat them into submission.

Hmm...so it would appear 😛

 

[tbrooks40]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, its not realistic at all. Youre living in a fantasy world where people do whats best for everyone else, not for themselves. This is a capitalist nation for crying out loud. In the real world, people do have brains and theyre using them. They can follow your logic to a point, and its good logic.

But then the realization hits them: no one else is going to listen to this. The more people that do, the better off I am. Therefore, itll be best for me if everyone else listens, and I dont.

Youre basically thinking of a classic prisoners dilemma. It would be beneficial for both of them if they both kept their mouths closed. But the gain is so huge if they do rat their boy out, and the loss so huge if they keep quiet while their friend rats them out, that both of them will independently and rationally come to the same conclusion, to sell out. And that doesnt make them any more of an idiot that these people running out and filling up.

It makes the ones who dont fill up suckers.

You are arguing something entirely different that I am. I'm arguing that they are idiots and causing their own problems. You are arguing that it is realistic behavior predicated on the notion that people are selfish and are out for themselves. I agree, they are selfish, and it is realistic behavior, but it isn't "realistic" logically or in an economic sense which is what I was saying. My whole point (aimed at Rainsford, too) is that the people are so stupid and selfish that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They feed off of each other and the media and drive the prices up.

Gas prices aren't going to hit 6 from thus unless it is from spiked demand. Venezuela is about to provide oil, OPEC is going to ramp up production a bit, although refining the rougher OPEC oil is tough, and the EPA is allowing the amount of blends to be whittled down, and Bush is tapping the SPR. All those multitude of tools are a reaction to the supply disruption. If given a chance they would have handled the market and made any prices increases modest and short in duration. Due to people not have a clue or a brain they fvcked themselves. Honestly, I don't see the disagreement. You are saying people are animalistic, selfish, and stupid in general nature and I agree. I relied on their behavior to help my future's contract. I wouldn't have done it had I not realized the inherent stupidity of the lemmings in this country -- or anywhere in the world.

I am, however, stating pure economic facts. If they had allowed the supply disruption to be fixed, Fouchon to come online, increased OPEC and SPR oil, etc then the price increase wouldn't have been bad. Creating a total lack of supply after spiking demand is only going to keep prices high for the foreseeable future.

The problem is youre saying it like theres a chance that your version can actually happen, and calling people idiots for not doing it, but it realistically never will happen, economically sound or not.

Which kind of makes you the idiot, honestly.

Realistically it can happen. It is called education and people actually wanting to learn. Again, your argument is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This is true, however, if the dumb fvcker doesn't drink you can berate his ass and rant and rave about it until you feel better. 😛

Realistically we all realize that ranting and raving about anything isn't going to change anything. That's why it is called a rant -- it gives you a chance to bash people for their obvious shortcoming or your own failures and whatnot.

It doesn't make me an idiot, because I already said I agreed that realistically people are unlikely to change. It makes you the idiot for continually saying that my economics were flawed. Re-read your first post in this thread. You were saying it was an economic principle and that people were just trying to get the best price. This isn't true -- if they wanted the BEST deal for themselves they'd have not bought into the hype. You and Rainsford make it out to be some type of gamble. So, is saving 5-10 bucks now worth high gas prices for the next 2-3 weeks? I think not. It kind of makes them (and you) the idiot for thinking that such animalistic logic is needed or can't be controlled.

People have been fvcking without condoms for years in African spreading AIDs. That's human nature to fvck. Does that mean we can stop them from fvcking? Nope. Can we educate them and prevent it using condoms? Yep. Once they realized that giving all the Virgins AIDS wasn't going to cure their own AIDs they started saying "Oh."

You keep saying you can't change people, but obviously you can educate and help them or we'd still be in caves.

You keep using this collective idea, like we have some sort of group-think going on. We don't, and since we don't, the gas issue is hard to deal with. It is a gamble, because as an individual, I have to bet on the fact that everyone else is going to be smart about this and do what's best for the group. If I'm right, we all come out ahead. But if I'm wrong, I lose big.

Your economics are fine, but your psychology is flawed. I'm not saying we can't fix it, but nobody is going to bet on people acting for the good of the group, because they never do. As an individual, my choices were pay less now, or more later. I can't change the price, and experience has told me trusting society as a whole to do the smart thing is a bad idea. Knowing that, wouldn't I be a pretty big idiot if I didn't fill up my tank before prices went up?

Emotional pain just leads to a bunch of magnetic flags on SUVs and saying get them damn Arabs. 😛 It didn't last and it wouldn't because it wasn't real. You start making people pay 4 bucks a gallon for gas and you bet your ass they will reduce demand or at least stop inciting mass panic. There is plenty of help and changes the government has temporarily implemented that WOULD have made future gas prices not as much of a gamble. The people, however, were not informed. I bet you could ask 100 residents what the SPR was and what Bush did to it and about 5 would know. That's ignorance, not looking out for themselves. It is simply inexcusable to not know after this disaster that the government would be helping to stabilize prices and to just remain calm.
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i would love to know what this administration has done in an attempt to lower gas prices. i really want to know b/c i haven't heard of them doing anything and have been arguing this point in other circles. are there any articles you could point me to?

 

[secretanchitman]

now i dont feel stupid when walking to school.

*thumbs up for rant*

 

[tbrooks40]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Gas could be $5 a gallon and I wouldn't give a damn.

Why do you people keep going on?

well you my friend are lost! *edit to add... i take that back. please forgive me - i don't want to get into a pissing contest. let me ask you why you wouldn't you give a damn?*

 

[Mill]

i would love to know what this administration has done in an attempt to lower gas prices. i really want to know b/c i haven't heard of them doing anything and have been arguing this point in other circles. are there any articles you could point me to?

Bush released Oil from the SPR, and the EPA is allowing the sell of all blends of polluting gas in the ENTIRE nation.

SPR means the refineries can get oil. The EPA's decision to allow the higher polluting blends (a decision the administration made them do) allows gas to be refined for cheap and makes the harsher Saudi and Venezeula blends easier to be refined, and it also reduces the number of blends that refineries have to produce -- which again makes the gas cheaper.

 

[JohnCU]

Ah, the holier than thou mentality is as prominent at ever at ATOT. 🙂