Lionhead Studios: Used game sales on consoles a bigger problem than piracy for the PC

[KaOTiK]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-17-lionhead-pre-owned-worse-than-pc-piracy

Even though he doesn't go into console piracy it was nice that a dev finally acknowledged the issue and how large it has become.

 

[motsm]

It's not an issue, it's just part of running a business that sells tangible goods. Perfect situation for a Deal With It gif, IMO.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

That's just part of what comes with a cartridge-based gaming model. The studios made their own bed on this one.

 

[lupi]

I'd say I'm shocked by this, except each time one of the console bois start laughing at some of the stupid ass drm schemes I just laugh back and tell them something similar will be coming there way to combat the used game trade. already starting to see it with the 10-15 dollar codes you have to buy if you get a used title to have network access and crap.

 

[Via]

I remember reading about Sony's exploration of a system that would imprint a disk upon first use and link it to the console.

I guess it's good for Sony that they ditched that idea, but I wouldn't doubt something similar gets traction eventually.

 

[Bateluer]

I remember reading about Sony's exploration of a system that would imprint a disk upon first use and link it to the console.

I guess it's good for Sony that they ditched that idea, but I wouldn't doubt something similar gets traction eventually.

Hopefully, people emphatically say no to that crap.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Book companies seem to manage just fine without stomping on their customers rights.

 

[Red Storm]

It's inevitable really.

On the PC side you've got Steam, D2D, Impulse, and more online stores which really limit the ability for users to sell their games after purchase. Personally I am a little surprised the greedy console companies haven't already implemented some form of registering games to people's accounts permanently.

 

[Rhezuss]

Book companies seem to manage just fine without stomping on their customers rights.

Good point.

 

[JumBie]

Who cares about Lionhead studios...really.

 

[paperfist]

Book companies seem to manage just fine without stomping on their customers rights.

Different model, book companies don't have to support servers, tech support and advertising. Plus have you seen the price of books lately?

I'm thinking the long digital books go mainstream that they'll run into similar sales problems.

Who cares about Lionhead studios...really.

BULLFROG!

 

[Texashiker]

Lionhead Studios: Used game sales on consoles a bigger problem than piracy for the PC

One issue that I see, is the gaming industry wants to squeeze every penny they can out of the consumer. Go take a look at the reviews of homefront and brink - junk games that charge a premium price. If I spend $60 on a game, the game should not have the bugs in it like modern games have. Instead, the gaming industry tarnishes their own name by releasing junk games.

When I bought my used toyota truck, toyota did not make a penny off of it, just like the gaming industry should not make anything off the sale of used games.

The next thing you know, the movie companies will start complaining about pawn shops selling used DVDs.

 

[GaryJohnson]

Who cares about Lionhead studios...really.

They abandoned us with Fable II.

 

[Gibsons]

I remember reading about Sony's exploration of a system that would imprint a disk upon first use and link it to the console.

I guess it's good for Sony that they ditched that idea, but I wouldn't doubt something similar gets traction eventually.

lol, so as soon as your console craps out, all your games are useless?

I can see the mod community making big bucks off of this scheme.

A point the game companies seem to be missing is that the ability to sell a used game adds value to their product. Buying a new game is an easier decision when there's a possibility of reselling it.

 

[GaryJohnson]

When I bought my used toyota truck, toyota did not make a penny off of it, just like the gaming industry should not make anything off the sale of used games.

Toyota probably will make money off the truck in the form of proprietary replacement parts. Their "DRM" is holding back of schematics and other documents that would allow after-market manufacturers (or someone with a machine shop) to make cheaper replacement parts.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Something we knew all along.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Steam, Direct2drive and the console equivalents are the future. Digital copies eliminates the used market and cut out retailers (that $60 goes directly to Microsoft). All we need is better access to broadband across the country and cartridges / DvDs will be no more.

 

[Childs]

To be honest I dont blame them. This is one of the few areas where a used version of a product can outsell a new version, when the new version is still selling. I have no numbers to back it up, but I think its reasonable to assume that 1 week after a new game is released, 25-40% of the sales of a new game are used, which was sold for less, and those could have been new sales. Every week after that the used numbers increase.

People dont buy a 2012 Prius, then one week later sell it. By the time someone is ready to sell theres its old and does not directly compete with the current models. Most physical goods also have wear and tear, but a game is always the same. I think the online codes are reasonable, but what might be better is a moratorium of used sales on new games for a couple of months. Somewhat like what the movie studios are doing with Netflix and new movies. I would think like movies, game sales are highest in the first couple of weeks of release.

Or publishers can establish a credit system. Send them your game after you are done and you get 30-40% (or equivalent trade in value) off future titles, and then the publishers can resell the game. As it is now, a publisher not only competes with other publishers, but its own products.

 

[lord_emperor]

Different model, book companies don't have to support servers, tech support and advertising. Plus have you seen the price of books lately?

A book is $10-12 and lasts longer than most SP games these days.

Also, game companies could seriously reduce the cost of hosting those services by using an older model:

- Let players host their own (even dedicated) servers.
- Ditch always-connected DRM and use CD-key check for multiplayer.
- Embrace P2P as a data distribution method.

All the provider has to host in this case is a server list, authentication server and torrent tracker.

 

[dpodblood]

Funny. Basically everything he said in the article is what I was trying to say in another thread today. DRM's are useless because they will always be cracked. And used games sales are just as detrimental as piracy if not more so. Customers need to be more educated on where they're going and the affects of piracy.

 

[oogabooga]

It's inevitable really.

On the PC side you've got Steam, D2D, Impulse, and more online stores which really limit the ability for users to sell their games after purchase. Personally I am a little surprised the greedy console companies haven't already implemented some form of registering games to people's accounts permanently.

EA and a few others I think are trying to. They're making it so you require some sort of pass to play online. If you resell the game, the only way you sell the pass is if you didn't use it and tie it to your account. If you buy the game, you can play singleplayer or whatever but you can't go online.

This is still more generous than the steam model of "you buy it, it's yours and only yours" but it's a big shift to get more money.

I always thought used game sales helped console games. Realistically speaking, I figured there's a hardcore segment of the market that will buy the newest play through it, then resale it to recoup their costs. They then take the recoup cost and purchase the next latest and greatest game. I guess this helps out the people doing this, but doesn't really help out publishers.

 

[Texashiker]

EA and a few others I think are trying to. They're making it so you require some sort of pass to play online. If you resell the game, the only way you sell the pass is if you didn't use it and tie it to your account. If you buy the game, you can play singleplayer or whatever but you can't go online.

I foresee some kind of online store for consoles. Where you plug in an external hard drive, go online, buy the game, download it to the external drive, and then console burns a disk for you.

The console will be tied into something like Steam, but for its platform.

The wii has a built in store for older nintendo games. I am willing to bet that the next generation of wii will have some kind of online store for newer games, like how Steam is for the PC. Just plug in an external drive, purchase your console games online, download and play.

 

[Ross Ridge]

I always thought used game sales helped console games. Realistically speaking, I figured there's a hardcore segment of the market that will buy the newest play through it, then resale it to recoup their costs. They then take the recoup cost and purchase the next latest and greatest game. I guess this helps out the people doing this, but doesn't really help out publishers.

Yah, the console software companies might actually be hurting themselves by trying to prevent used game sales. They assume that every used game purchase is a lost sale to them while ignoring the people that wouldn't have bought the game in the first place if they couldn't resell it.

 

[dpodblood]

I foresee some kind of online store for consoles. Where you plug in an external hard drive, go online, buy the game, download it to the external drive, and then console burns a disk for you.

The console will be tied into something like Steam, but for its platform.

The wii has a built in store for older nintendo games. I am willing to bet that the next generation of wii will have some kind of online store for newer games, like how Steam is for the PC. Just plug in an external drive, purchase your console games online, download and play.

Psst... That already exists.

 

[akugami]

One issue that I see, is the gaming industry wants to squeeze every penny they can out of the consumer. Go take a look at the reviews of homefront and brink - junk games that charge a premium price. If I spend $60 on a game, the game should not have the bugs in it like modern games have. Instead, the gaming industry tarnishes their own name by releasing junk games.

Truth!

When I bought my used toyota truck, toyota did not make a penny off of it, just like the gaming industry should not make anything off the sale of used games.

The next thing you know, the movie companies will start complaining about pawn shops selling used DVDs.

I thought the MPAA already was...



Anyways, there are plenty of industries that have a huge secondary market. Cars, books, used DVD's & CD's, and a ton of crap you can see in pawn shops and ebay. Reselling stuff has been a fact since man started making and selling crap.

It is up to each industry to find a profitable business model. It is not the fault of consumers that they buy and sell used products.

We buy games to play them but games generally do not hold long term replay value. That's why people resell them when they're still hot to get the maximum resale value while it's still popular. Games that actually do have long term replay value (example being Starcraft) are few and far between. Games NEED to provide a reason for us to keep it. Games like TF2 and Starcraft provide excellent replay value. Games like Zelda and Metroid are just plain fun to bring out every now and then even if we know all the secrets. Most other games? Once you've played it, you have little desire to play it ever again.

Compounding the problem is the shitty track record for backwards compatibility of the games industry. Older consoles are depreciated every 5-6 years. This makes holding a game long term a losing proposition. If your console hits the crapper it makes it an expensive, or at least difficult, task to finding a replacement console and this gets harder and more expensive as time goes by. You can't play NES games on the SNES. You can't play SNES games on the N64. You can't play N64 games on the Gamecube. And so on and so forth. The PS1 and PS2 did things right and Sony promised backwards compatibility as a huge draw of the PS3. We all know how that turned out so we can't even trust the games industry on future backwards compatibility.