Linux supporters fiddle while OpenSSH burns

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: kamper
I don't see why they should. Theo makes no efforts to play nice with the linux crowd, it just comes down to fundamental differences of opinion on some matters.

Portable OpenSSH isn't playing nice? OpenNTPD? Fixing 10 year old X bugs? Submitting patches back upstream for gcc and other GPLed tools in use is being mean? Getting companies to release documentation on hardware isn't a good thing for Linux?

There's a reason Theo got the 2004 Free Software Award.

As much as we'd like to ignore it, there is more to a working relationship than technical issues and philosophical issues. Nobody wants to listen to a person who is perceived as being both unduly critical and pugnacious about it. Yes, image matters.

OpenBSD and the other software projects that fall under that umbrella are nearly universally noted for their security and technical correctness. But Theo himself, in contrast to the positive things he contributes by way of his code, is most often heard praising his own projects yet, in the same breath, cursing Linux and other things that side of the BSD-GPL divide. Usually, people who seem to act like this do not attract money given of free will.

It really doesn't matter how factually wrong I am, because it is a matter of perception. I perceive Theo as having a generally unappealing personality, and I assume that many others have similar sentiments. This is to be contrasted with someone like Linus, who is widely seen as having an appealing personality.

If he is to be the one to garner support for the projects, then this perception must be challenged widely. Given the audience, facts are likely to carry more weight, but it's still fundamentally a PR battle.

Just saying.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bersl2
As much as we'd like to ignore it, there is more to a working relationship than technical issues and philosophical issues. Nobody wants to listen to a person who is perceived as being both unduly critical and pugnacious about it. Yes, image matters.

Yeah, tell me about it. Linus can be quite the ass, but he's a coder. The code is what matters.

OpenBSD and the other software projects that fall under that umbrella are nearly universally noted for their security and technical correctness. But Theo himself, in contrast to the positive things he contributes by way of his code, is most often heard praising his own projects yet, in the same breath, cursing Linux and other things that side of the BSD-GPL divide. Usually, people who seem to act like this do not attract money given of free will.

It really doesn't matter how factually wrong I am, because it is a matter of perception. I perceive Theo as having a generally unappealing personality, and I assume that many others have similar sentiments. This is to be contrasted with someone like Linus, who is widely seen as having an appealing personality.

He has a similar personality. Ask Gnome.

If he is to be the one to garner support for the projects, then this perception must be challenged widely. Given the audience, facts are likely to carry more weight, but it's still fundamentally a PR battle.

Just saying.

Yeah, tell those go-getters that they have to be nice all the time to everyone. See what kind of response you get.

Theo is a no bullshit sorta guy. It's refreshing. I think every leader is the same way.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: drag
The reason that they aren't 100% gung-ho is because they have their own problems they have to deal with.

Isn't that what I've been trying to say all along?

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: bersl2
As much as we'd like to ignore it, there is more to a working relationship than technical issues and philosophical issues. Nobody wants to listen to a person who is perceived as being both unduly critical and pugnacious about it. Yes, image matters.

Yeah, tell me about it. Linus can be quite the ass, but he's a coder. The code is what matters.

OpenBSD and the other software projects that fall under that umbrella are nearly universally noted for their security and technical correctness. But Theo himself, in contrast to the positive things he contributes by way of his code, is most often heard praising his own projects yet, in the same breath, cursing Linux and other things that side of the BSD-GPL divide. Usually, people who seem to act like this do not attract money given of free will.

It really doesn't matter how factually wrong I am, because it is a matter of perception. I perceive Theo as having a generally unappealing personality, and I assume that many others have similar sentiments. This is to be contrasted with someone like Linus, who is widely seen as having an appealing personality.

He has a similar personality. Ask Gnome.

If he is to be the one to garner support for the projects, then this perception must be challenged widely. Given the audience, facts are likely to carry more weight, but it's still fundamentally a PR battle.

Just saying.

Yeah, tell those go-getters that they have to be nice all the time to everyone. See what kind of response you get.

Theo is a no bullshit sorta guy. It's refreshing. I think every leader is the same way.

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

The only statement even close to being a fact present in what I just previously wrote is that Theo has an image problem. The rest is sentiment---I wouldn't even call some of it "opinion", because I know better, that all people have strengths and weaknesses, and that ego is our type of person's weakness (is mine not this very moment out of control? ); however, it is my gut reaction, conditioned by the negativity associated with him that occasionally bubbles up in much greater amount than the positivity.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: bersl2
As much as we'd like to ignore it, there is more to a working relationship than technical issues and philosophical issues. Nobody wants to listen to a person who is perceived as being both unduly critical and pugnacious about it. Yes, image matters.

Yeah, tell me about it. Linus can be quite the ass, but he's a coder. The code is what matters.

OpenBSD and the other software projects that fall under that umbrella are nearly universally noted for their security and technical correctness. But Theo himself, in contrast to the positive things he contributes by way of his code, is most often heard praising his own projects yet, in the same breath, cursing Linux and other things that side of the BSD-GPL divide. Usually, people who seem to act like this do not attract money given of free will.

It really doesn't matter how factually wrong I am, because it is a matter of perception. I perceive Theo as having a generally unappealing personality, and I assume that many others have similar sentiments. This is to be contrasted with someone like Linus, who is widely seen as having an appealing personality.

He has a similar personality. Ask Gnome.

If he is to be the one to garner support for the projects, then this perception must be challenged widely. Given the audience, facts are likely to carry more weight, but it's still fundamentally a PR battle.

Just saying.

Yeah, tell those go-getters that they have to be nice all the time to everyone. See what kind of response you get.

Theo is a no bullshit sorta guy. It's refreshing. I think every leader is the same way.

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

The only statement even close to being a fact present in what I just previously wrote is that Theo has an image problem. The rest is sentiment---I wouldn't even call some of it "opinion", because I know better, that all people have strengths and weaknesses, and that ego is our type of person's weakness (is mine not this very moment out of control? ); however, it is my gut reaction, conditioned by the negativity associated with him that occasionally bubbles up in much greater amount than the positivity.

Some people have problems with strong personalities. *shrug*

 

[smack Down]

Gee who would have thought that if you give away your software no one is going to pay for it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Gee who would have thought that if you give away your software no one is going to pay for it.

:roll:

 

[skyking]

After all that debate and chatter, did anybody ELSE pony up?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: skyking
After all that debate and chatter, did anybody ELSE pony up?

Good question. :beer:

I'll be donating again soon...

 

[skyking]

Cool
I did contribute. If we could get just a small percentage of the open source folks here to toss in, it would make a difference. 100K is not that much.

 

[daniel49]

nope but I did donate to my linux distro that was a first
not to mention my daily donation to my teens....sigh

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: daniel49
nope but I did donate to my linux distro that was a first

That's definitely a good thing. It's been a while since I picked up a copy of any distro. Maybe it's time to get one...

not to mention my daily donation to my teens....sigh

:laugh:

 

[hardcandy2]

I send money to various projects, linux, wikipedia, and I am sending some to BSD. I figure no matter how you "slice" it, BSD is a nice OS. (Now I thought that was a good joke. "Slice it", get it?)

Makes me feel better about myself and may help someone out, even if they only buy a better brand of coffee to sip while they code.

 

[kamper]

A very cool development in the story: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20060404004219&mode=expanded

This is something that had occured to me, given the recent stories about how mozilla is wading in cash and looking to put it back into the community. However, although I'm sure they use ssh in various places, they were not really obligated to give, as they are just another open source project so I think it's really fantastic that they stepped up and did it.

<sarcasm>Now if only there were some way to get google searches incorporated into openssh. Then google would be throwing wads of cash at them too.</sarcasm>

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: kamper
A very cool development in the story: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20060404004219&mode=expanded

This is something that had occured to me, given the recent stories about how mozilla is wading in cash and looking to put it back into the community. However, although I'm sure they use ssh in various places, they were not really obligated to give, as they are just another open source project so I think it's really fantastic that they stepped up and did it.

<sarcasm>Now if only there were some way to get google searches incorporated into openssh. Then google would be throwing wads of cash at them too.</sarcasm>

Holy moley! I didn't think the Mozilla foundation had a soul!

EDIT: Google search is built into OpenBSD

 

[MercenaryForHire]

I donated an old Sun box to him awhile ago, IIRC.

However, I shower, shave, use deodorant, and can talk to girls without making a "donation" by credit card first - so I don't know if anyone in the OSS movement would want to associate with me these days.

- M4H

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I donated an old Sun box to him awhile ago, IIRC.

I paid for the Sun box.

However, I shower, shave, use deodorant, and can talk to girls without making a "donation" by credit card first - so I don't know if anyone in the OSS movement would want to associate with me these days.

- M4H

Plenty of us do too. In fact, last I heard Theo was in a relationship, and he obviously doesn't have the money to hire her.

 

[screw3d]

So Mozilla Foundation decided to donate $10,000 to OpenSSH:

http://www.undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20060404004219&mode=expanded

edit: nvm repost apparently