Linux SUCKS and should never be used by human beings.

[Nothinman]

I think ya need to tap your sarcasm meter there, Nothinman.

Sorry, sarcasm doesn't translate very well via text and I just got woke up :/

 

[daniel49]

oh boy an anti-linux thread. Haven't seen one of those in a while.
tick its all about how bad you want to learn it and how much effort you want to put into it.
I can understand that when you turn on your lightswitch you just want the lights to work not understand the entire concept of electricity.
But some do like to get into it that much.
For the non power users there are now some pretty friendly distros out there that are much less painful.
PClinux OS is one such and there are others.
To conclude its not for everyone though so if windows fits you, use it in peace and be happy.🙂

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I think ya need to tap your sarcasm meter there, Nothinman.

Sorry, sarcasm doesn't translate very well via text and I just got woke up :/

That's what the meter is for. 😉 😛

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: daniel49
oh boy an anti-linux thread. Haven't seen one of those in a while.
tick its all about how bad you want to learn it and how much effort you want to put into it.
I can understand that when you turn on your lightswitch you just want the lights to work not understand the entire concept of electricity.
But some do like to get into it that much.
For the non power users there are now some pretty friendly distros out there that are much less painful.
PClinux OS is one such and there are others.
To conclude its not for everyone though so if windows fits you, use it in peace and be happy.🙂

I don't think the OP is still paying attention. I don't see a reply by him in at least 2 weeks.

That said, his original whinings, errr, complaints have been nixed (pun intended 😛 ). Granted, Linux isn't for everyone - I know techies who tried it and gave up because of one reason or another. In the end they had no desire/reason to switch from Windows and that's fine. But in most cases I don't blame Linux when people install it and give up or complain about this or that. People have been running Windows so long they forget they had to learn how to use it in the beginning.

If I blanked my mom or dad's Dell boxes and handed them a WinXP SP2 CD do you think they would be able to get Windows installed? If I gave them a hint (insert CD, boot system, take the defaults) I'd say probably yes. However, when it's finished and their chipset, video, sound, NIC, printer, etc aren't auto-detected would they get any further than that? Not a chance. Given the same blank system if I handed them an Ubuntu Edgy CD they would probably wind up with a functioning system. They wouldn't be familiar with the interface but that can be learned. That said, which is easier?

 

[Nothinman]

That's what the meter is for.

We don't use meters in the US, it's all done in feet. =)

edit: I can't seem to type well today...

 

[koomey]

Then don't use it...

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

That's what the meter is for.

We don't use meters in the US, it's all done in feet. =)

edit: I can't seem to type well today...

That's okay... At least you've still got the solid quoting part down! 😀

 

[hasu]

Some more random thoughts..

A major issue with Linux seems to be the unavailability of hardware drivers. It is easier to get drivers for Windows because most of the vendors support (various flavors of) Windows by default. Thanks to Windows popularity. Or rather thanks to the lack of competition to Windows

Most of the people learned windows step by step (from old versions of DOS or Windows) incrementally along with new releases. Changes to new versions were never overwhelming for Windows users. This made people forget how much they struggled to learn windows initially. I remember the times when I learned windows little by little here and there. (eg: How Windows explorer and actual directory structure are related? Where the shortcuts are stored for Send To, Start Menu, Quick Launch etc). Now, when I start learning Linux I have to learn all that again. There won't be C:, Program Files, C:\Windows, System32 or Documents and Settings. The learning process may not be too difficult with the available support out there.

Open Source per se *may not* be the best option for economy. But competition is always good for users as well as the growth of technology -- like what we saw between Intel and AMD. In the new world, when companies like Microsoft take things to a different level to kill competition, only open source can compete. If it adversely affects economy who should be blamed for that?

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: hasu

Most of the people learned windows step by step (from old versions of DOS or Windows) incrementally along with new releases.

no most as in majority of now pc users didnt do much with computers untill the big internet boom of the mid-late 90's, before that it was rather more for "geeks" and didnt become "cool" till AOL/internet sites and windows made communication and learning easy.

Changes to new versions were never overwhelming for Windows users. This made people forget how much they struggled to learn windows initially.

most average users never learned more than they had to outside of the manual.

I remember the times when I learned windows little by little here and there. (eg: How Windows explorer and actual directory structure are related? Where the shortcuts are stored for Send To, Start Menu, Quick Launch etc).

little by little? all that was in the manual of my first HP computer, the retail windows 95/98 manual also explained many basics if i recall correctly

Now, when I start learning Linux I have to learn all that again. There won't be C:, Program Files, C:\Windows, System32 or Documents and Settings. The learning process may not be too difficult with the available support out there.

and if that support isnt included in the OS help or a manual, then you can forget about thinking any huge number of people would want it, not everyone jumps to message boards and having to rely on that alone is rather sad.
why bother with a learning process, the OS is just a workbench to use tools on...that is it

 

[Nothinman]

why bother with a learning process, the OS is just a workbench to use tools on...that is it

If only it was that simple.

 

[hasu]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine

Originally posted by: hasu

Most of the people learned windows step by step (from old versions of DOS or Windows) incrementally along with new releases.

no most as in majority of now pc users didnt do much with computers untill the big internet boom of the mid-late 90's, before that it was rather more for "geeks" and didnt become "cool" till AOL/internet sites and windows made communication and learning easy.

Changes to new versions were never overwhelming for Windows users. This made people forget how much they struggled to learn windows initially.

most average users never learned more than they had to outside of the manual.

I remember the times when I learned windows little by little here and there. (eg: How Windows explorer and actual directory structure are related? Where the shortcuts are stored for Send To, Start Menu, Quick Launch etc).

little by little? all that was in the manual of my first HP computer, the retail windows 95/98 manual also explained many basics if i recall correctly

Now, when I start learning Linux I have to learn all that again. There won't be C:, Program Files, C:\Windows, System32 or Documents and Settings. The learning process may not be too difficult with the available support out there.

and if that support isnt included in the OS help or a manual, then you can forget about thinking any huge number of people would want it, not everyone jumps to message boards and having to rely on that alone is rather sad.
why bother with a learning process, the OS is just a workbench to use tools on...that is it

I really did not want to argue (with anyone). Don't take my post personal, even if you are working for Microsoft. Take a deep breath and think impartially! You have your answers in your reply itself. Nobody learns an OS unless they really need to. That holds good even for your comment. Over a period of time people just get acquainted with the operating environment. Depending on your interest in learning an OS you can determine if you want to buy an OS and install on an existing machine or you want to buy a machine pre-loaded with an OS. When news says that Vista sales have been less than expected, did they expect every one who owns a PC to buy the new OS and install themselves? If Microsoft does not think that Linux is "good enough" to be a threat why are they bothered so much? Why can't they just take it as a geeks thing?

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: tranceport
1) The most advanced computers in the world do not use a GUI....

2) Login as root if you think you are good enough not to screw up anything.

3) Apt-get works great for me. I also have no problems compiling from source.

4) See 3. Programs that were compiled for my needs are great.



I think the problem here is you just aren't bright enough to make your way through a unix environment. You are for the time being a Microsoft person. Come on... Even the mac guys are using unix these days....

Linux is not a replacement for your Microsoft windows box if you do not have the patience to make it that way.

That is what I was thinking about OS X is like unix right?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
and if that support isnt included in the OS help or a manual, then you can forget about thinking any huge number of people would want it, not everyone jumps to message boards and having to rely on that alone is rather sad.
why bother with a learning process, the OS is just a workbench to use tools on...that is it

Your post was fine up to there. Windows, Mac, Linux, etc all break at one time or another and if the end user isn't going to learn about their OS then when it breaks they aren't going to know how to fix it. Most Windows users don't know jack about troubleshooting their systems so when they break they call a computer literate family/friend to fix it for them.

 

[alm4rr]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

this thread sums up why linux won't go mainstream

Yea because installing Windows is so seamless and effortless. Whenever I install XP and it doesn't have drivers for my NIC, video, wifi, sound, etc who is to blame? MS or the hardware manufacturers?

more for the responses from the linux folks who actually ENJOY a more complex OS.

The culture of Linux enthusiasts is what prevents mainstream desktop integration.
"What fun/challenge is there to double click?"

 

[xtknight]

Blah...

Some people just prefer to use the command line for things. Typing "locate myfile" is easier than pressing Windows Key+F and waiting 2 seconds for the laggy shell dialog to load.

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

why bother with a learning process, the OS is just a workbench to use tools on...that is it

If only it was that simple.

it is that simple, you just prefer to make it complicated so you can argue...thats why your here arguing isnt it?
what is the complication?

what are you arguing exactly? you like linux? just say it and be done

if not then explain your goals in this thread and what your trying to achieve here.

so far you have proven nothing but a sarcastic negative attitude towards anything remotely postive of vista or remotly negative of linux

 

[Nothinman]

what is the complication?

The main complication is that nothing is totally intuitive, you have no choice but to learn the OS in order to use the computer. You just think that Windows is simple because it's what you already know, if you had learned to use computers starting with a large unix system at college you'd probably have the exact same opinion about Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD or whichever you became attached to.

so far you have proven nothing but a sarcastic negative attitude towards anything remotely postive of vista or remotly negative of linux

Not everything I've said about Vista is negative, infact some of the changes are huge wins. I personally have no reason to use it and I don't think all of the selling points are actually worth anything but that doesn't mean that I can't think some of the technical advancements made aren't positive.

 

[Doom Machine]

vista is the most intuitive os out there, i've used many,i cant speak about macs os 10 or upcomming leopord, havnt used them and no one could count how high a number of linux distro's i havnt used, but vista is so informative anyone who never used a computer can navigate it
vista is teh definition of dummified. the one in all solution thats all GUI with simple step by step process's that explain what your options are.
if my g/f can get on xp for the first time ever useing a computer and navigate...then i know vista is very intuitive.

for a new user, linux is the os that requires learning, you even have to learn to browse the web,research different distros just to figure out which one to download

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
vista is the most intuitive os out there, i've used many,i cant speak about macs os 10 or upcomming leopord, havnt used them and no one could count how high a number of linux distro's i havnt used, but vista is so informative anyone who never used a computer can navigate it
vista is teh definition of dummified. the one in all solution thats all GUI with simple step by step process's that explain what your options are.
if my g/f can get on xp for the first time ever useing a computer and navigate...then i know vista is very intuitive.

for a new user, linux is the os that requires learning, you even have to learn to browse the web,research different distros just to figure out which one to download

what would you do if Windows didn't come on your computer?

As an FYI, anyone can use a linux box that has been set up, just like your gf did with windows, only maybe easier, because lots of the cool stuff in Vista, has been in other OS's (OSX, Linux) for a while now. Vista is FAR from that intuitive, imho.

 

[Alone]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
vista is the most intuitive os out there, i've used many,i cant speak about macs os 10 or upcomming leopord, havnt used them and no one could count how high a number of linux distro's i havnt used, but vista is so informative anyone who never used a computer can navigate it
vista is teh definition of dummified. the one in all solution thats all GUI with simple step by step process's that explain what your options are.
if my g/f can get on xp for the first time ever useing a computer and navigate...then i know vista is very intuitive.

for a new user, linux is the os that requires learning, you even have to learn to browse the web,research different distros just to figure out which one to download

Not true. When using certain distributions (Ubuntu, for example) it will just "work" out of the box for most people (wireless is still...iffy). For regular use, it's fine and easy to get around (start menu just like windows, right click, drag and drop, etc). However, there are still capabilities for the more advanced user.

Windows limits you to what it thinks you need. Don't get me wrong, Windows is great, but so is Linux.

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
vista is the most intuitive os out there, i've used many,i cant speak about macs os 10 or upcomming leopord, havnt used them and no one could count how high a number of linux distro's i havnt used, but vista is so informative anyone who never used a computer can navigate it
vista is teh definition of dummified. the one in all solution thats all GUI with simple step by step process's that explain what your options are.
if my g/f can get on xp for the first time ever useing a computer and navigate...then i know vista is very intuitive.

for a new user, linux is the os that requires learning, you even have to learn to browse the web,research different distros just to figure out which one to download

Hell no.

Vista is a nightmare to use in my opinion.

Linux just makes logical sense.

I find Linux far more intuitive then Windows any day.

And before you say anything, there is a high likely hood that my perception of intuitive is different then yours.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Robor
If I blanked my mom or dad's Dell boxes and handed them a WinXP SP2 CD do you think they would be able to get Windows installed? If I gave them a hint (insert CD, boot system, take the defaults) I'd say probably yes. However, when it's finished and their chipset, video, sound, NIC, printer, etc aren't auto-detected would they get any further than that? Not a chance. Given the same blank system if I handed them an Ubuntu Edgy CD they would probably wind up with a functioning system. They wouldn't be familiar with the interface but that can be learned. That said, which is easier?

I don't know about that. I've been a Debian user for 10 years or so, and recently I tried Ubuntu. I booted up the install DVD, it seemed to run okay, but then when it tried to install, it gave me a very vague error. Something along the lines of "there has been a problem". What was the problem? Good question. I redownloaded and tried again. Same thing. That's not to say that it doesn't work for most people, just that it's not always that cut and dry.

Also, why wouldn't XP work on your parents' Dell? XP SP1 does a surprisingly good job of autodetection, at least from my experience.

Then of course we come to the ultimate question, what happens when your parents need to run some program that doesn't exist in the Linux world?

This thread makes me want to dust off the poor disheveled computer that I still keep Linux on and boot it up.

 

[fraquar]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
......Then of course we come to the ultimate question, what happens when your parents need to run some program that doesn't exist in the Linux world?

Today more than ever that is becoming far less of a problem on the desktop. Deciding which of many flavors of applications (on Linux) is proving as daunting or more than not being able to find an application at all (save explicit proprietary software created for target businesses).

Some would say there are too many choices on Linux - but I'd rather wade through too many choices than have to be content to settle with just one or two - expecially if those one or two choices would set me back half a years worth of car payments (or a relaxing use of that money - i.e a vacation?).

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
vista is the most intuitive os out there, i've used many,i cant speak about macs os 10 or upcomming leopord, havnt used them and no one could count how high a number of linux distro's i havnt used, but vista is so informative anyone who never used a computer can navigate it
vista is teh definition of dummified. the one in all solution thats all GUI with simple step by step process's that explain what your options are.
if my g/f can get on xp for the first time ever useing a computer and navigate...then i know vista is very intuitive.

for a new user, linux is the os that requires learning, you even have to learn to browse the web,research different distros just to figure out which one to download

what would you do if Windows didn't come on your computer?

it didnt, even an old radioshack tandy i used back in the early 80's had no os either but if you kept up with the forum you would notice i never speak for myself personally but rather on behalf of the majority of computer users who arnt enthusiastic about learning an OS but rather the tools thats on it.

anyone can use a linux box that has been set up

lol, where exactly? dell, alienware? must be nice to know someone to set it all up for you for free

also FYI i have total 5 computers in my house, only 1 i use for myself but i have one other that i had installed both suse 10 and xandros 4.0 at seperate times...neither of which solved my g/f from whining about this or that...wah, i cant find my recipies...wah i want to install this but cant figure out how...wah, whats this thingy do, wah, what does this mean....wah...wah...wah

yeah thats all the crying i heard about those till i bought an imac for the kitchen and some reciepe/tax/financial...etc software for her to easier use, you know the stuff with manuals and help menus so i dont have to listen to questions...and her son cedric, i had to point him to the firefox icon to get online.....i never showed him anything in the XP one, it was no brainer for him in windows cause internet can be browsed from any open window, plus the words internet explorer kinda give it away vs firefox or opera which the words alone has no meaning to the internet. and him being a typical teenage boy, he now doesnt use the linux one rather xp cause he can play his games on it and browse the web just the same rather than switch back in forth pointlessly to do the same thing he can do on the one that has his games

And before you say anything, there is a high likely hood that my perception of intuitive

well to be clear i think of intuitive as several things

>1 click step or a step by step process thats guided
>clear,available information about what your seeing (help icons on each window or balloon tips for example)
>software with names that are directly relevant to what its for (seamonkey browser for example does nothing to tell anyone thats its an internet browser.)
pretty much everything in vista has app names associated, windows mail,movie maker..etc
>everything GUI and no keyboard interaction...its amazing how many people "peck" and look at the keyboard as they type, thats counter productive and time consuming.

i dont need all that...most of you guys dont need all that, thats the difference between enthusiasts and pretty much everyone else as i doubt any of them are even reading this thread to begin with going back to an earlier question to nothingman and couple others that keeps getting ignored ..what do you hope to achieve in this thread?
perhaps the same achievments you'd make in a abortion vs non abortion thread

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
vista is the most intuitive os out there, i've used many,i cant speak about macs os 10 or upcomming leopord, havnt used them and no one could count how high a number of linux distro's i havnt used, but vista is so informative anyone who never used a computer can navigate it
vista is teh definition of dummified. the one in all solution thats all GUI with simple step by step process's that explain what your options are.
if my g/f can get on xp for the first time ever useing a computer and navigate...then i know vista is very intuitive.

for a new user, linux is the os that requires learning, you even have to learn to browse the web,research different distros just to figure out which one to download

what would you do if Windows didn't come on your computer?

it didnt, even an old radioshack tandy i used back in the early 80's had no os either but if you kept up with the forum you would notice i never speak for myself personally but rather on behalf of the majority of computer users who arnt enthusiastic about learning an OS but rather the tools thats on it.

anyone can use a linux box that has been set up

lol, where exactly? dell, alienware? must be nice to know someone to set it all up for you for free

also FYI i have total 5 computers in my house, only 1 i use for myself but i have one other that i had installed both suse 10 and xandros 4.0 at seperate times...neither of which solved my g/f from whining about this or that...wah, i cant find my recipies...wah i want to install this but cant figure out how...wah, whats this thingy do, wah, what does this mean....wah...wah...wah

yeah thats all the crying i heard about those till i bought an imac for the kitchen and some reciepe/tax/financial...etc software for her to easier use, you know the stuff with manuals and help menus so i dont have to listen to questions...and her son cedric, i had to point him to the firefox icon to get online.....i never showed him anything in the XP one, it was no brainer for him in windows cause internet can be browsed from any open window, plus the words internet explorer kinda give it away vs firefox or opera which the words alone has no meaning to the internet. and him being a typical teenage boy, he now doesnt use the linux one rather xp cause he can play his games on it and browse the web just the same rather than switch back in forth pointlessly to do the same thing he can do on the one that has his games

And before you say anything, there is a high likely hood that my perception of intuitive

well to be clear i think of intuitive as several things

>1 click step or a step by step process thats guided
>clear,available information about what your seeing (help icons on each window or balloon tips for example)
>software with names that are directly relevant to what its for (seamonkey browser for example does nothing to tell anyone thats its an internet browser.)
pretty much everything in vista has app names associated, windows mail,movie maker..etc
>everything GUI and no keyboard interaction...its amazing how many people "peck" and look at the keyboard as they type, thats counter productive and time consuming.

i dont need all that...most of you guys dont need all that, thats the difference between enthusiasts and pretty much everyone else as i doubt any of them are even reading this thread to begin with going back to an earlier question to nothingman and couple others that keeps getting ignored ..what do you hope to achieve in this thread?
perhaps the same achievments you'd make in a abortion vs non abortion thread

Umm...excuse me...but typing on the keyboard is counter-productive??? Holy sh!t, And I was starting to find the mouse counter-productive (except for the copy/paste thing). And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm far FAR FAAAAR more productive using the keyboard then the mouse on a daily basis. Using the mouse you need to click on the icon, go to whatever menu you need to do whatever you need, click on whatever menu you need, blah blah blah, and then appy, done, whatever.

Using the command line. 1 click on the console. type for 2-3 seconds, press enter, and then your done.

Which is less time consuming?

I honestly do not see how using the keyboard is counter-productive. I constantly find the gui is slowing me down. You'll actually see me open up a console just to load up an application (gui application) because I do not want to waste 10 seconds finding the damn menu icon.

In windows, i open load up applications using the run command. takes shorter amount of time.

My perception of intuitive = Makes logical sense.

In Linux all your system binaries are located in /usr/sbin (makes complete sense)
non-system binaries are locationed in /usr/bin (makes sense)
all config file are in /etc (makes sense)
files on your desktop are in /home/<user>/Desktop (makes sense)
services are in /etc/rc.d/rc(init level).d/ (makes sense)

In Windows, all your system binaries are all over the fvcking place.
I want to find a file, I have better chances finding the damn file if I do a search for it. I should not need a search.

I want to check out my account. C:\document and settings\<user>\<whatever other directories>

I forgot, where did I install that damn application again? Is it in c:\program files? or elsewhere? I don't know! I'll have to look.

And you are calling Windows intuitive?