Linux Article/ Linux Coverage

[RobertAlvarez]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
From the moment ANYONE DISAGREES WITH YOU you immediately resort to name calling, calling people clueless and go out of your way to bait them and pick a fight. You started it and then you blame others for your nasty behaviour because they just so happen to disagree with you.

Then you go on to later admit you were out to pick a fight and debate (I.E. FLAME) with any one who disagrees with you.

When I gracefully bow out of the thread, you just can't leave it alone and continue to mention my name and blame me for your obvious intent to behave badly from the very beginning the moment anyone disagrees with you.

YOU ruined your own thread and you continue to blame me even after I left it.

I am one of the nicest, most graceful posters on this board. But I am no pushover either and will not allow you to continue to attack me for expressing my opinion about Clem, Linux Mint or any thing else for that matter. This forum is open to the public and is a free speech zone. If you don't want others opinions then you should just go and post on the Mint forum where I am certain every Tom, Dick and Harry will agree with just about every thing you say.

My opinion was not a "ad hominum attack" like you keep implying. It was MY OPINION PURE AND SIMPLE.

Now, if you really want to be civil, Quit mentioning my name every time some one replies to you and just drop it. I am willing to bow out of the thread if YOU WILL LEAVE IT ALONE!

If you continue you will prove you are nothing more than a useless troll that wants to pick a fight.

I would say have a nice day but I could care less if you do.

You left out the part where you without any knowledge or proof called someone and anti-semite and open racist and then as part of the same post dissed an entire OS with a community of tens of thousands of users. Here is your post (the first offensive shot by anyone!:

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Considering the openly anti-semite attitude of the developer, Anand should absolutely not cover Linux Mint. Anand should not support open racism in any form and there are actual real distros to cover instead of a repackaged and rebranded Ubuntu.

Then you took a shot at Linux in general and here is that post:

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Looks to me like Linux is the OS any doorstop works on.

...and here's another shot by you at Linux:

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Another thing, it is in most cases Linux that is the toy operating system since it is people that love to tinker with PC's that mainly use it on the desktop.

...and now another shot at Mint:

Originally posted by: soonerproud
There is nothing better about Mint. It is nothing more than a hacked, repackaged and rebranded Ubuntu.

...and another shot. So after the developers spend months developing the tools you could without using any of their work, recreate Mint in a snap (Clem better pay you off to keep your secret):

Originally posted by: soonerproud
It would take me less than a hour to turn Ubuntu into Mint, it is that easy to do. A noob could do it with a tutorial and simple copy and paste. It is not difficult at all.

Here is your most heartfelt post:

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Don't blame me because you want to act like a jackass.

Sooner, you and I got off on the wrong foot because of the anti-semite/open racist comment you led with. That is how I feel about it. As you wish, unless you come back at me again, I won't mention you again. I too will defend myself though, as you have stated you are doing.

Unlike you, I do wish you a happy day and life. Although I don't care for your 'opinions' on me, mint, or Linux, I still wish you all the best.

 

[RobertAlvarez]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: soonerproud
My opinion was not a "ad hominum attack" like you keep implying. It was MY OPINION PURE AND SIMPLE.

I think where the disconnect really lies between you two is the one is looking at Mint's "minority" status from an architectural/dependency/software-versioning perspective. The other was interpreting those words from a popularity/credibility/impact-on-the-community perspective.

Your statements never attacked or "dissed" Mint, but from the latter perspective, they could be misconstrued.

Agreed.

Also, though, I saw everything else he said from the light of the very first statement made, which I felt was clearly below the belt.

In my last response to him I ended it by offering to stop coming back at him if he would stop coming aback at me. Hopefully that will end it.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
You left out the part where you without any knowledge or proof called someone and anti-semite and open racist and then as part of the same post dissed an entire OS with a community of tens of thousands of users. Here is your post (the first offensive shot by anyone!:

Which is why I said you are reading too much into my post. Clem's statement was anti-semite which elicited such a response it made international news. I had no clue of his apologies and even told you in a previous post I would retract what I said if it were true and that I am all about second chances.

My opinion of Mint has not changed, it is simply a rebranded Ubuntu. You even admitted it is essentially Ubuntu (99%) in your own post. While the language I used may have been slightly harsh, it did not elicit your response to it. Trust me, that is one of the nicer ways that Mint is described around here. If you can't handle that then you will not handle this forum well.

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
Then you took a shot at Linux in general and here is that post:

That was a friendly reply to a shot at Windows VinDSL took and nothing more. This is what I mean by you are reading wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to much into my post. Hang out here long enough and you will see i will do the same to a Linux basher. It was all in fun.

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
...and here's another shot by you at Linux:

See my reply above.

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
...and now another shot at Mint:

Nothing I said there was inaccurate. Was it the word "hacked" you don't like? Get over it because hacked does not always mean a negative connotation. If you change something in a distro, it is hacked. Developers hack stuff all the time. If I said craked, then that is a always a negative connotation. It is the media that is responsible for giving hackers a negative connotation when it is the crackers that are the bad guys.

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
...and another shot. So after the developers spend months developing the tools you could without using any of their work, recreate Mint (Clem better pay you off to keep your secret):

Not inaccurate again because I also said you would have to add the Mint repos and do sudo apt-get install ****. You read too much into it because I never said the tools were easy to create and develop. Here is a quote you left out of mine in response to VinDSL.

I applaud the work Clem and others are doing on Mint to make the Ubuntu they would want to use. I just don't want to be in their shoes again after what I went through in donating all that time and energy to help and got so much grief over it.

Wait what was that? A compliment? Looks to me you are reading way to much into my post again.

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
Here is your most heartfelt post:

You were acting like a jackass! You immediately read to much into my post, took my opinons as a personal attack when they were clearly not directed at you and resorted to name calling, which I refrained from until I just got sick and tired of your constant abuse. You absolutely desrved that.

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
Sooner, you and I got off on the wrong foot because of the anti-semite/open racist comment you led with. That is how I feel about it. Unless you come back at me again, I won't mention you again. I too will defend myself though, as you have stated you are doing.

Unlike you, I do wish you a happy day and life. Although I don't care for your 'opinions' on me, mint, or Linux, I still wish you all the best.

Then like I posted previously, lets let bygones be bygones and start over. Just understand not to read too much into my post and what I post is nothing personal, just purely my opinion and I will try to be a little more sensitive to your feelings and will make a effort to use better language to express my opinion so you don't take it the wrong way. Is that fair enough?

On the last part, I only said what I said about having a nice day because I was sick of my name being brought up after I left the thread. Thank you for graciously wishing me a nice day even though I did not express the same courtesy.

 

[RobertAlvarez]

soonerproud,
Clem's original post was about Israel's a government and not about Israeli's as a people.

As I posted, I disagreed with it, and was quite angry that it was put on Mint's blog instead of his own. There was never any antisemitism or racism in it. I think that is important for anyone who may not have actually seen the post and are relying on statements made here to form opinions to know. If you can find the original post, and find a quote that expresses anti Jewish or racist sentiment, then please post it. soonerproud, words like racist/antisemite are loaded and we should be careful about throwing them around. I know I don't have much credibility with you, but I read his statement and it wasn't there.

I myself was angry enough by Clem's post that I said some things that I wished I could have back. To me what WAS most wrong about it was that it was in the wrong place and poorly worded, which allowed for mis-understandings. Clem has worked in Ireland for years, but he is not a native speaker of English - as the son of Cuban immigrants I have heard my parents make statements that simply came out wrong and then had to help them clarify (he should have had it proofed by a native speaker and then posted in a personal blog not Mint). He came to realize that Mint is not just his pet project anymore, there are many contributors, including community members who work for nothing other than the love of the distro, and they should not have his personal views pushed on them. As a conservative and Christian who is unabashedly pro Israel, I can separate a person's political views from his value as a person as long as his views are not racist, and again Clems, clearly were not racist.

For me this little tiff is over. I hope it's over for you too. Have a good one!

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: RobertAlvarez
soonerproud,
Clem's original post was about Israel's a government and not about Israeli's as a people.

As I posted, I disagreed with it, and was quite angry that it was put on Mint's blog instead of his own. There was never any antisemitism or racism in it. I think that is important for anyone who may not have actually seen the post and are relying on statements made here to form opinions to know. If you can find the original post, and find a quote that expresses anti Jewish or racist sentiment, then please post it. soonerproud, words like racist/antisemite are loaded and we should be careful about throwing them around. I know I don't have much credibility with you, but I read his statement and it wasn't there.

I myself was angry enough by Clem's post that I said some things that I wished I could have back. To me what WAS most wrong about it was that it was in the wrong place and poorly worded, which allowed for mis-understandings. Clem has worked in Ireland for years, but he is not a native speaker of English - as the son of Cuban immigrants I have heard my parents make statements that simply came out wrong and then had to help them clarify (he should have had it proofed by a native speaker and then posted in a personal blog not Mint). He came to realize that Mint is not just his pet project anymore, there are many contributors, including community members who work for nothing other than the love of the distro, and they should not have his personal views pushed on them. As a conservative and Christian who is unabashedly pro Israel, I can separate a person's political views from his value as a person as long as his views are not racist, and again Clems, clearly were not racist.

For me this little tiff is over. I hope it's over for you too. Have a good one!

Fair enough, I think we now see eye to eye.

You have a good one too.

Cheers!

 

[Rottie]

I dont think Linux will stay longer....Look what Microsoft did kick Warp OS out to the moon. Now Microsoft is working on big shoe to boot Linux out to Pluto....

 

[between]

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Rottie
I dont think Linux will stay longer....Look what Microsoft did kick Warp OS out to the moon. Now Microsoft is working on big shoe to boot Linux out to Pluto....

Windows hasn't got a chance! The writing is on the wall...

By this time next year, there's going to be 33% unemployment in the US - 45-55% in the minority communities.

Ppl are going to be lucky to have a place to sleep - let alone, play on a computer. Most likely, the relative that owns the house is where everyone is going to stay - and they ain't buying a 10-pack of Win7 licenses, guaranteed! Any businesses that happen to survive will run whatever they're running now. There's no way they're investing in Vista/7!

I could go on, but you get the idea...

Nobody is going to buy software licenses any more! That's a concept from the last century!

Question: When is the last time YOU bought software?

For me, it was 1987, to the best of my recollection (Wildcat! BBS to be specific)... maybe longer!

EDIT: BTW, I highly doubt that anyone at Anandtech knows enough about Linux to publish an intelligent article on it. That's probably the reason you haven't seen one - they're busy Google'ing it, trying to figure out how to make it work - so I'm neutral on the whole idea anyway!

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: VinDSL


I could go on, but you get the idea...

Nobody is going to buy software licenses any more! That's a concept from the last century!

Yea, keep dreaming....

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: Rottie
I dont think Linux will stay longer....Look what Microsoft did kick Warp OS out to the moon. Now Microsoft is working on big shoe to boot Linux out to Pluto....

Windows hasn't got a chance! The writing is on the wall...

By this time next year, there's going to be 33% unemployment in the US - 45-55% in the minority communities.

Ppl are going to be lucky to have a place to sleep - let alone, play on a computer. Most likely, the relative that owns the house is where everyone is going to stay - and they ain't buying a 10-pack of Win7 licenses, guaranteed! Any businesses that happen to survive will run whatever they're running now. There's no way they're investing in Vista/7!

I could go on, but you get the idea...

Nobody is going to buy software licenses any more! That's a concept from the last century!

Question: When is the last time YOU bought software?

For me, it was 1987, to the best of my recollection (Wildcat! BBS to be specific)... maybe longer!

EDIT: BTW, I highly doubt that anyone at Anandtech knows enough about Linux to publish an intelligent article on it. That's probably the reason you haven't seen one - they're busy Google'ing it, trying to figure out how to make it work - so I'm neutral on the whole idea anyway!

hi vindsl i have not see you for a long time not even in notebook forum anymore...sold your notebook?
Anyway Microsoft is getting money from people who buy xp, vista and next win7 because people can afford it while people cant afford linux when it is free. so microsoft can afford to keep many employees.
Wildcat BBS? Is that from Mustang software? is it went of business? BBS is dead now welcome to WWW

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Rottie
hi vindsl i have not see you for a long time not even in notebook forum anymore...sold your notebook?

Anyway Microsoft is getting money from people who buy xp, vista and next win7 because people can afford it while people cant afford linux when it is free. so microsoft can afford to keep many employees.

Wildcat BBS? Is that from Mustang software? is it went of business? BBS is dead now welcome to WWW.

Hi, Rottie, SUP?

I'm on the lappy right now - just wiped 7b off my drive (needed the space for FreeBSD) - and ended up installing Vista SP2 instead of staying on task.

I've been posting over here mostly, because the OS crowd is so friendly!

And, yeah - no kidding - Mustang Software's Wildcat! BBS (multi-line) is the last software I bought. I quit using it in '94 (or thereabout) when we got internet connectivity in the small town where I live - a single T1 line and rack modems. I started writing my own application software after that, before becoming a PHP/MySQL cookie-cutter. Now I just write modules and blocks. LoL!

Kinda funny how nothing has changed in all these years. With Wildcat! you played online games, downloaded proggies, and argued in the forums - same as today.

Thanks for the shout out...

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: Rottie
hi vindsl i have not see you for a long time not even in notebook forum anymore...sold your notebook?

Anyway Microsoft is getting money from people who buy xp, vista and next win7 because people can afford it while people cant afford linux when it is free. so microsoft can afford to keep many employees.

Wildcat BBS? Is that from Mustang software? is it went of business? BBS is dead now welcome to WWW.

Hi, Rottie, SUP?

I'm on the lappy right now - just wiped 7b off my drive (needed the space for FreeBSD) - and ended up installing Vista SP2 instead of staying on task.

I've been posting over here mostly, because the OS crowd is so friendly!

And, yeah - no kidding - Mustang Software's Wildcat! BBS (multi-line) is the last software I bought. I quit using it in '94 (or thereabout) when we got internet connectivity in the small town where I live - a single T1 line and rack modems. I started writing my own application software after that, before becoming a PHP/MySQL cookie-cutter. Now I just write modules and blocks. LoL!

Kinda funny how nothing has changed in all these years. With Wildcat! you played online games, downloaded proggies, and argued in the forums - same as today.

Thanks for the shout out...

I had a great memoir about Wildcat BBS and enjoyed playing online game and alot of nice small sharewares back then when I had Atari 130XE and Commodore Amgia remember those computers?

Anyway back to Linux topic....Suse Linux 7.2 is what I still have but never use it anymore after realizing it is hard to learn so maybe Anand never bother to write an article about Linux or he doesnt have one on his PC?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

 

[Nothinman]

I dont think Linux will stay longer....Look what Microsoft did kick Warp OS out to the moon. Now Microsoft is working on big shoe to boot Linux out to Pluto....

MS was able to kill OS/2 because it was owned and managed by a for-profit company, at some point IBM decided it wasn't worth the money to maintain and sell. The same isn't true for Linux. They can kill off Canonical, RedHat, etc but Linux will still be there. And on top of that the OS is becoming less relevant to what people do, not more. With so much stuff moving to the web, cell phones, etc why would the OS matter? Even now the list of things that force you to choose one OS or another is pretty small and moving forward that list will only get smaller.

When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground.

And it's thinking like that which keeps it like that. It's closed minds like yours that keep the status quo.

Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.

If you think it's executed poorly then you don't really understand the concept. Most of the differences are so small that once you have a basic understanding of the system you can move between them easily just like you would with different brands of any other peice of equipment.

 

[SickBeast]

IMO in the long term, more and more people will move to Linux. There should be better coverage here, but there are sites dedicated to it. AT covers Mac stuff; there's probably only so much niche stuff they can cover.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
IMO in the long term, more and more people will move to Linux...

AT covers Mac stuff; there's probably only so much niche stuff they can cover.

Funny you should mention Mac!

I've noticed a LOT of MacBook owners are installing Ubuntu 9.04 and lovin' it...

'Jaunty' is a very polished system - right up there with Mac OS X and 7 IMHO.

It's only a matter of time...

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

Yup

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

I've personally thought Linux was more of a science project OS [back in the early days of RedHat - installs were a royal pain in the ass] - a lot of fun to tinker around with but not much else.

 

[Nothinman]

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

For now, in 2yrs when there's newer hardware that isn't supported out of the box you'll be in the same boat that you're in with XP now.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

So we're ignoring the fact that there's 6 different versions of Vista and 5 for Windows 7?

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: coloumb

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

Yup

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

I've personally thought Linux was more of a science project OS [back in the early days of RedHat - installs were a royal pain in the ass] - a lot of fun to tinker around with but not much else.

Honestly your experience with it just 'working' is just as anecdotal as me coming along and saying that Ubuntu 'just works' out of the box for me with no messing around. It's faster from Install disk to fully functional desktop(with drivers) then any Windows I've ever installed.

It's definitely not a novelty item and it's definitely around for the long haul. Arguing OS preference is getting more and more like arguing car make/model with the big push to running everything through a web browser.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: coloumb

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

Yup

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

I've personally thought Linux was more of a science project OS [back in the early days of RedHat - installs were a royal pain in the ass] - a lot of fun to tinker around with but not much else.

Honestly your experience with it just 'working' is just as anecdotal as me coming along and saying that Ubuntu 'just works' out of the box for me with no messing around. It's faster from Install disk to fully functional desktop(with drivers) then any Windows I've ever installed.

It's definitely not a novelty item and it's definitely around for the long haul. Arguing OS preference is getting more and more like arguing car make/model with the big push to running everything through a web browser.

If it weren't for games there would be almost no point to using windows since Ubuntu is free

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: coloumb

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

Yup

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

I've personally thought Linux was more of a science project OS [back in the early days of RedHat - installs were a royal pain in the ass] - a lot of fun to tinker around with but not much else.

Honestly your experience with it just 'working' is just as anecdotal as me coming along and saying that Ubuntu 'just works' out of the box for me with no messing around. It's faster from Install disk to fully functional desktop(with drivers) then any Windows I've ever installed.

It's definitely not a novelty item and it's definitely around for the long haul. Arguing OS preference is getting more and more like arguing car make/model with the big push to running everything through a web browser.

If it weren't for games there would be almost no point to using windows since Ubuntu is free

Except for all those pieces of software that are still Windows only, and the older legacy things that people use Windows for. Oh, and all the poorly coded websites that demand that you use not just IE, but older versions of IE.

I don't think that if the PC gaming industry collapsed tomorrow Linux would rise to supremacy in any reasonable amount of time. Windows is incredibly entrenched, not just with companies and gamers, but with everyone. It is much like how Roller Blade became synonomous with inline skates, Kleenex, iPod, BandAid, and on and on. People expect Windows to be on their computers, and regardless of how many things move to the web, they expect that little blue E to take them to it.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: TheStu

Except for all those pieces of software that are still Windows only, and the older legacy things that people use Windows for. Oh, and all the poorly coded websites that demand that you use not just IE, but older versions of IE.

I don't think that if the PC gaming industry collapsed tomorrow Linux would rise to supremacy in any reasonable amount of time. Windows is incredibly entrenched, not just with companies and gamers, but with everyone. It is much like how Roller Blade became synonomous with inline skates, Kleenex, iPod, BandAid, and on and on. People expect Windows to be on their computers, and regardless of how many things move to the web, they expect that little blue E to take them to it.

If not for gaming I think a lot of people would switch. No so much corporate users, but enthusiasts like the type that use this site. I like Windows a lot, and don't have any problems with MS, but I'd switch if not for games. Most of the software I use is open source anyway. The only program I'd really miss is Foobar2000, and I bet it would be developed for Linux if there was a mass migration.

I'd like to have a shiny new O/S whenever I wanted, at no cost to me, except for a little time in the download :^)

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: TheStu

Except for all those pieces of software that are still Windows only, and the older legacy things that people use Windows for. Oh, and all the poorly coded websites that demand that you use not just IE, but older versions of IE.

I don't think that if the PC gaming industry collapsed tomorrow Linux would rise to supremacy in any reasonable amount of time. Windows is incredibly entrenched, not just with companies and gamers, but with everyone. It is much like how Roller Blade became synonomous with inline skates, Kleenex, iPod, BandAid, and on and on. People expect Windows to be on their computers, and regardless of how many things move to the web, they expect that little blue E to take them to it.

If not for gaming I think a lot of people would switch. No so much corporate users, but enthusiasts like the type that use this site. I like Windows a lot, and don't have any problems with MS, but I'd switch if not for games. Most of the software I use is open source anyway. The only program I'd really miss is Foobar2000, and I bet it would be developed for Linux if there was a mass migration.

I'd like to have a shiny new O/S whenever I wanted, at no cost to me, except for a little time in the download :^)

I just don't agree that it will happen. I have tried Linux quite a few times in the past few years, and there are just a few too many quirks that exist in it to make me even consider using it as a primary OS. I use OS X as my primary OS for all my day-to-day tasks, Windows for gaming and extended video streaming (Flash is crap on OS X, and Silverlight is only slightly better) and not too much else. I just don't have any reason to switch to Linux since OS X would cover all my needs adequately if there was no PC gaming. Linux font rendering and the fact that it doesn't bring me, or anyone I know, anything unique to the table.

It is apparently great for you guys, and that is fantastic. I think that Linux should stick around. Competition is always good for everyone, and it would be great if Windows lost some more market share so that Linux as a whole would get a larger, not userbase, but at least... presence in the market.

So, while I don't think that if PC gaming collapsed that Linux would take over in a reasonable amount of time, I am not saying that it will never take over, or at least get to a much larger share.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: TheStu

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: coloumb

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

Yup

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

I've personally thought Linux was more of a science project OS [back in the early days of RedHat - installs were a royal pain in the ass] - a lot of fun to tinker around with but not much else.

Honestly your experience with it just 'working' is just as anecdotal as me coming along and saying that Ubuntu 'just works' out of the box for me with no messing around. It's faster from Install disk to fully functional desktop(with drivers) then any Windows I've ever installed.

It's definitely not a novelty item and it's definitely around for the long haul. Arguing OS preference is getting more and more like arguing car make/model with the big push to running everything through a web browser.

If it weren't for games there would be almost no point to using windows since Ubuntu is free

Except for all those pieces of software that are still Windows only, and the older legacy things that people use Windows for. Oh, and all the poorly coded websites that demand that you use not just IE, but older versions of IE.

I don't think that if the PC gaming industry collapsed tomorrow Linux would rise to supremacy in any reasonable amount of time. Windows is incredibly entrenched, not just with companies and gamers, but with everyone. It is much like how Roller Blade became synonomous with inline skates, Kleenex, iPod, BandAid, and on and on. People expect Windows to be on their computers, and regardless of how many things move to the web, they expect that little blue E to take them to it.

He said 'almost no point'... which you exemplified with your examples

For home users gaming is by far the biggest hold back for Linux, everyone else? who cares...

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: TheStu

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: Crusty

Originally posted by: coloumb

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Rifterut
Its true that you cant play new games in linux, this is why you dual boot.

Linux is a novelty item and will remain so as long as it is open source. Sorry to rain on your parade, but M$ played hard ball early on and won. Even thinking that Linux will take over the desktop is signs of a fanatical mind. When 97% of the business in the world rely on Windows on their desktops. 2% mac and the last 1% everythign else, you'll never get gain any ground. Linux is nice in concept, but in reality it's executed badly. How many distros are there now? and they all work slightly differently.
VinDSL. IF you think Windows 7 is going to fail it is going to be because Apple pumps a ton of money into advertising to get the Mac zealots foaming at the mouth and chanting the lies they hear on TV.
Windows 7 is much better than Vista and everything "just works".

Yup

IMHO - Win7 has been the easiest MS OS install to date - it "just works" as you say.

This is where MS wins - rather than umpteen billion different versions of an OS - they basically have 3 versions - XP if you don't like Vista or your IT dept supports, Vista if you like vista [I like it], or the upcoming Win7.

I've personally thought Linux was more of a science project OS [back in the early days of RedHat - installs were a royal pain in the ass] - a lot of fun to tinker around with but not much else.

Honestly your experience with it just 'working' is just as anecdotal as me coming along and saying that Ubuntu 'just works' out of the box for me with no messing around. It's faster from Install disk to fully functional desktop(with drivers) then any Windows I've ever installed.

It's definitely not a novelty item and it's definitely around for the long haul. Arguing OS preference is getting more and more like arguing car make/model with the big push to running everything through a web browser.

If it weren't for games there would be almost no point to using windows since Ubuntu is free

Except for all those pieces of software that are still Windows only, and the older legacy things that people use Windows for. Oh, and all the poorly coded websites that demand that you use not just IE, but older versions of IE.

I don't think that if the PC gaming industry collapsed tomorrow Linux would rise to supremacy in any reasonable amount of time. Windows is incredibly entrenched, not just with companies and gamers, but with everyone. It is much like how Roller Blade became synonomous with inline skates, Kleenex, iPod, BandAid, and on and on. People expect Windows to be on their computers, and regardless of how many things move to the web, they expect that little blue E to take them to it.

He said 'almost no point'... which you exemplified with your examples

For home users gaming is by far the biggest hold back for Linux, everyone else? who cares...

'Almost no point' to me sounds like 'If it weren't for gaming, and Zunes' people would switch to Linux. Or something similar to that. It isn't just the legacy hardware/software, or the pieces of software, like CAD that only work in Windows that keeps people on it, it is the familiarity. And it is the fact that Windows is what comes on the computer. That is what they will use.

It would take a major push, by all the OEMs, putting Linux out on a significant number of machines to get an increased market share. Linux isn't gaining ground just because there are games and some other things holding people from it. It is the mindset that people have, and the fact that they will generally just use whatever they have in front of them. I switched my mom and both my sister's to OS X, and of those, my eldest sister loves it and would have to think long and hard about using anything else. My mom primarily just surfs the web, so would probably be fine on Windows or Linux, and my other sister is the same. So, in that regard, sure they would be ok with a move to linux, but they wouldn't go looking for the ISO, or even ask me to install it for them. They would only start to use Linux if a new computer they bought had it on there.