Line-out on Zune?

[davestar]

I'm going to cave in and upgrade my mp3 player from a 20GB iRiver H10 to either the 80 GB iPod or Zune. Since I've gone through the effort (and cost) of installing aux inputs to my car's head unit, I need to make sure that I can buy a Zune adapter that provides a line-level output, such as this one for the iPod.

Every similar accessory for the Zune that I've seen is either output from the headphone jack or requires a docking station. Does anyone know of a product that can give me a simple line-out from the Zune?

 

[MDE]

What's wrong with the headphone jack?

 

[zig3695]

yeah the headphone jack and just keep it somewhere about 3/4 volume full on the zune, depending on lots of factors but as high as you can get without distortion- thats all line out is really anyway.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: zig3695
yeah the headphone jack and just keep it somewhere about 3/4 volume full on the zune, depending on lots of factors but as high as you can get without distortion- thats all line out is really anyway.

line-out has higher impedance, properly referenced p-p voltage, and goes though less active (noise-inducing) circuitry than the headphone-out. the potential advantages are fuller sound, less distortion, and longer battery life for the mp3 player. i'm not claiming that these things will be evident in all cases/to all ears, but if the Zune doesn't have a portable line-out option, i'm definitely going to go the iPod route.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: zig3695
yeah the headphone jack and just keep it somewhere about 3/4 volume full on the zune, depending on lots of factors but as high as you can get without distortion- thats all line out is really anyway.

line-out has higher impedance, properly referenced p-p voltage, and goes though less active (noise-inducing) circuitry than the headphone-out. the potential advantages are fuller sound, less distortion, and longer battery life for the mp3 player. i'm not claiming that these things will be evident in all cases/to all ears, but if the Zune doesn't have a portable line-out option, i'm definitely going to go the iPod route.

For a test, we tried my friends ipod classic 80GB vs. my new Zen (Zen is rated the same as the Zune as far as audio quality.). We used the line out on the apple, and straight headphone jack to the amp's auxillary input. We couldn't tell the difference aside from cranking up the volume on the deck and putting the player on about 3/4.
Why? Zune's and most Creative products (and I think iRivers) are about two notches up in quality.
I would seriously try one first.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: zig3695
yeah the headphone jack and just keep it somewhere about 3/4 volume full on the zune, depending on lots of factors but as high as you can get without distortion- thats all line out is really anyway.

line-out has higher impedance, properly referenced p-p voltage, and goes though less active (noise-inducing) circuitry than the headphone-out. the potential advantages are fuller sound, less distortion, and longer battery life for the mp3 player. i'm not claiming that these things will be evident in all cases/to all ears, but if the Zune doesn't have a portable line-out option, i'm definitely going to go the iPod route.

For a test, we tried my friends ipod classic 80GB vs. my new Zen (Zen is rated the same as the Zune as far as audio quality.). We used the line out on the apple, and straight headphone jack to the amp's auxillary input. We couldn't tell the difference aside from cranking up the volume on the deck and putting the player on about 3/4.
Why? Zune's and most Creative products (and I think iRivers) are about two notches up in quality.
I would seriously try one first.

thanks for the comparison, but even if there's no audible difference between a zune headphone jack and and ipod line-out, the zune's battery will drain much more quickly in that configuration. and in any case, i've installed a high-end system in my car that has revealed the SQ degredation caused by a headphone amp in the past...

if microsoft hopes to beat apple in the sound quality game, they should offer a line-out option.

 

[Ika]

I'm sure eventually someone will find the pin-out for the "dock port" on the Zune and a DIY line-out will be made. I just don't know how long it would take. It took a month or two for the Vision:M's port to be opened up, IIRC.

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: zig3695
yeah the headphone jack and just keep it somewhere about 3/4 volume full on the zune, depending on lots of factors but as high as you can get without distortion- thats all line out is really anyway.

line-out has higher impedance, properly referenced p-p voltage, and goes though less active (noise-inducing) circuitry than the headphone-out. the potential advantages are fuller sound, less distortion, and longer battery life for the mp3 player. i'm not claiming that these things will be evident in all cases/to all ears, but if the Zune doesn't have a portable line-out option, i'm definitely going to go the iPod route.

For a test, we tried my friends ipod classic 80GB vs. my new Zen (Zen is rated the same as the Zune as far as audio quality.). We used the line out on the apple, and straight headphone jack to the amp's auxillary input. We couldn't tell the difference aside from cranking up the volume on the deck and putting the player on about 3/4.
Why? Zune's and most Creative products (and I think iRivers) are about two notches up in quality.
I would seriously try one first.

thanks for the comparison, but even if there's no audible difference between a zune headphone jack and and ipod line-out, the zune's battery will drain much more quickly in that configuration. and in any case, i've installed a high-end system in my car that has revealed the SQ degredation caused by a headphone amp in the past...

if microsoft hopes to beat apple in the sound quality game, they should offer a line-out option.

They do, it's through the headphone jack. If you're worried about the battery then pick up a car charger off of eBay or FS\FT Forum for a couple of bucks.

 

[zig3695]

davestar is absolutely right, but thats really for the enthusiasts to worry about. 80% or more of the peeps out there have basic audio systems where the headphone jack is going to work exactly the same as a line out- usually better actually because most budget audio line-out's are very low in voltage, meaning you have to turn up your cheap amp very high to get full sound (which turns into distortion). thats why i usually like a headphone output more anyway, i know i can always get full sound no matter what amp im hooking into. yes yes, sound quality isnt going to be technically better but this is a portable device, im plenty happy my entire music collection can fit in my shirt pocket. and most budget audio equipment isnt going to be hurt by the slight difference in impedance, its just not that refined of equipment, imo.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: davestar
if microsoft hopes to beat apple in the sound quality game, they should offer a line-out option.

They do, it's through the headphone jack. If you're worried about the battery then pick up a car charger off of eBay or FS\FT Forum for a couple of bucks.

err, by definition a line-out signal does not go through an output amplification stage (ie the headphone output).

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: davestar
if microsoft hopes to beat apple in the sound quality game, they should offer a line-out option.

They do, it's through the headphone jack. If you're worried about the battery then pick up a car charger off of eBay or FS\FT Forum for a couple of bucks.

err, by definition a line-out signal does not go through an output amplification stage (ie the headphone output).

What difference is it going to make playing compressed audio?

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: davestar
if microsoft hopes to beat apple in the sound quality game, they should offer a line-out option.

They do, it's through the headphone jack. If you're worried about the battery then pick up a car charger off of eBay or FS\FT Forum for a couple of bucks.

err, by definition a line-out signal does not go through an output amplification stage (ie the headphone output).

What difference is it going to make playing compressed audio?

So because I don't have an ideal source I should make things worse by using the headphone jack? In any case, all my mp3s are 320 kbps or VBR which to me, and all sane people, are indestinguishable from CD. it's not like i'm cruising around with 96 kbps mp3s and complaining that the headphone amp raises the noise floor.

Also, the problem with power drain while cranking the headphone amp remains. As far as the charger, my cig lighter was busted when my car was stolen and even if it wasn't, i wouldn't want the extra wire floating around.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: davestar
if microsoft hopes to beat apple in the sound quality game, they should offer a line-out option.

They do, it's through the headphone jack. If you're worried about the battery then pick up a car charger off of eBay or FS\FT Forum for a couple of bucks.

err, by definition a line-out signal does not go through an output amplification stage (ie the headphone output).

What difference is it going to make playing compressed audio?

So because I don't have an ideal source I should make things worse by using the headphone jack?

What he's saying is, you're not going to notice the "headphone amp distortion".
Also, if you were really that much of an "audiophile" you'd be using the lossless compression your player of choice supports.

Also, the problem with power drain while cranking the headphone amp remains. As far as the charger, my cig lighter was busted when my car was stolen and even if it wasn't, i wouldn't want the extra wire floating around.

This is the only real problem, imo, but you'll need to find somebody else who cared enough to document the mAs used while playing through the headphone jack vs playing through the dock/cradle.

Myself, I have an always-hot cigarette lighter, so I just leave it plugged in in my truck 24/7.

 

[askdim1]

I ran across this thread while searching for "zune line out". There doesn't seem to be much information on this. It's frustrating because the headphone jack is such an inferior output for connecting to an aux input. This line-level input is available on every new car I've looked at, so I'm not sure why it's not better supported. The headphone output is inferior in terms of noise, distortion, frequency response, and voltage level. They're just two different things. It may be that the difference doesn't bother you, but it's silly to say there's no difference.

 

[askdim1]

Originally posted by: Raduque

What he's saying is, you're not going to notice the "headphone amp distortion".

What sage advice is to be found here! It's funny, but sad, and I can see why davestar left the conversation. He appears to be intelligent and informed and simply didn't fit in. Dave clearly does hear the distortion, though that's only part of the problem. The signal is also muted, less dynamic, and bandwidth limited. Be happy that you can't distinguish this or that your audio equipment is sufficiently low in quality. Don't try to convince him (davestar) that he doesn't hear a difference.

Originally posted by: Raduque

Also, if you were really that much of an "audiophile" you'd be using the lossless compression your player of choice supports.

Another asinine comment. Lossless compression is of little value in an environment like a car. It's difficult for the human ear to detect that kind of subtlety and nuance in a relatively noisy environment, at least when compared to the bit rates that davestar uses.