LindowsOS Update

CSFM

Senior member
Oct 16, 2001
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Well, it has been some time since I visited this forum... been very busy lately. But I though I would post this latest letter from Michael Robertson that I received this morning.


Michael?s Minutes: A Million Windows?



The next two weeks promise to be interesting ones as Microsoft ponies up people to testify in their court battles that a monopoly is a good thing for consumers, and by extension, that competition is a bad thing. The only thing more preposterous than that is their position that having multiple versions of an operating system is either technically impossible or economically impractical. Ironically, our small company, Lindows.com is doing what Microsoft says it cannot or will not do. Since those signed up for our Insiders program receive early versions (as well as the final version when released later this year), they have witnessed this technology first hand. Let me explain.



At Lindows.com, we see a trend of cheaper computers leading to specialized computer usage. According to NPD Techworld, the average price of a PC late last year was $814. Between 1996 and 2001 Gartner Dataquest reported that PCs experienced an average annual drop in price of $211. This suggests that by the end of 2002, we should expect the average a consumer pays for desktop machine at $603. And remember, that's the AVERAGE. With every computer manufacturer already offering a sub-$600 package, many buyers will pay considerably less than the $603 average.



At these prices, homes with broadband can buy multiple machines - say one for each member of the family or one for different rooms of the house. Businesses can afford multiple computers for their employees. Each of these computers will have a much more narrow list of duties than the all-in-one PCs of the past. A computer someone buys for their 10 year old may only need a collection of chat and email programs similar to AOL. (Over half of U.S. homes today use AOL and many of them use AOL almost exclusively when they turn their computer on.) If I buy a computer for the security guard in my company, it only needs a couple of business type programs. I don't want the expense or added complexity of unnecessary technology like 3D virtual reality software. Instead the consumer should be able to pay only for what the will actually need and want. Anything else adds unnecessary complexity and cost, opens up more potential security vulnerabilities, and can slow down the machine.



With this trend in mind, LindowsOS comes with a minimal configuration, but can be easily supplemented with additional software to suit specific duties. Missing are many of the non-essential software programs - what the Department of Justice calls 'middleware.' Many of these are the same elements Microsoft claims they cannot remove from their OS. Of course, these programs are still available to LindowsOS users via the Click -N- Run Warehouse. Some are free and some there will be a charge for. Each is downloaded, installed and ready to use with just a single mouse click. Instead of promoting our own software preferences on buyers, the Click-N-Run Warehouse will offer thousands of products and let the buyers decide which suit them. (Today, if you try out LindowsOS SP2, you'll be able to see the Click-N-Run technology in action. Click on screen shots below to enlarge and see more examples of Click-N-Run in action.)

Screen shots

The goal is to allow people to customize their operating system so that it suits the needs and pocketbook. They pay for only what they need. They install only what they use. The goal is to create many versions of our OS - the same thing Microsoft claims is untenable and will destroy the personal computer business. We imagine homework windows which students would customize for their needs. A teenager windows with programs suited for them. A preschool windows for little tykes. A receptionist windows with tools they might use. Yes, a world with a million versions of windows. That's what Lindows.com is bringing to the marketplace and exactly what is needed to energize the next wave of computing.



Special Note: I've received some information from some of you since our court case that Microsoft is sending cease and desist letters to products, companies and domain names which use any variation of the word "windows". I refer you to our legal papers for what we think of their legal position and encourage you to let others know publicly of Microsoft's tactics.





Michael Robertson,

CEO Lindows.com, Inc.

michaelr@lindows.com



Bringing choice to your computer!



Lindows.com has just released a Sneak Preview 2 of LindowsOS. The Sneak Preview is not a fully completed product but showcases many of the unique features such as a ?Friendly-Install? alongside an existing Microsoft Windows operating system, a streamlined installation process which requires no computer knowledge and the ability to run popular Windows-based programs. For more information click here
 

EHobaX

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Oct 16, 2001
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The guy's a fruit and so is his vaporware.

Edit: I thought we only needed one "dumbed-down" OS on the market..
 

CSFM

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Oct 16, 2001
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"The guy's a fruit and so is his vaporware. "

EHobaX are you saying this because you have used it and have made a decision based around your own personal experiences?

If not, please don't pass judgement on others ideas and projects until you have used or seen them in action first hand. At least he is out there giving it a go!

-CSFM-
 

jlemieux

Member
Mar 23, 2002
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Here is my problem with his idea. You pay $99 a year to get the dumbed down OS, then you will have to purchase some of the software to do your normal everyday work. That will not do. Especially since most linux distros and software packages are available for free downloads. If you download redhat you have a fully functional OS. Want a better Office clone? Download Open office and you basically have everything anyone would need.
 

wildwildwes

Senior member
Jul 18, 2001
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I have used it, and while it's not vaporware, it's nothing special and this Michael Robertson's ego really irritates me. As a side note, did you know that the "insiders" who pay $100 for the preview aren't even guaranteed a copy of the first release?
 

CSFM

Senior member
Oct 16, 2001
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I have used it, and while it's not vaporware, it's nothing special and this Michael Robertson's ego really irritates me. As a side note, did you know that the "insiders" who pay $100 for the preview aren't even guaranteed a copy of the first release?

Really! The insidrs would be a little upset I would think if they don't get a copy of it when it is released.

I think if he didn't have his ego he would be having trouble dealing with Microsoft. You would have to be slightly pig headed to take them on I would imagine.

I am not expecting it to be something special... cricky, Windows is nothing special. Just an alternative to those currently using Windows platforms.

Here is my problem with his idea. You pay $99 a year to get the dumbed down OS, then you will have to purchase some of the software to do your normal everyday work. That will not do. Especially since most linux distros and software packages are available for free downloads. If you download redhat you have a fully functional OS. Want a better Office clone? Download Open office and you basically have everything anyone would need.

It's is still a hell of a lot cheaper than Windows... I don't think that they're aiming this product at Linux users. I see it directly aimed ay current Windows users, home and office. You do have a good point though.
 

EHobaX

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Oct 16, 2001
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I'm entitled to have strong opinions. That's the way I am. :)

Have I tried it? No. Would I want to? No.

If I wanted a clone of Windows, I'd buy Windows.

If he can pull off something and get a piece of the OS pie, then more power to him.
Plus, I'm sure you can find place online to d/l the preview edition. So much for being an Insider.

I have to agree, Michael Robertson is shadier than a two-headed coin.
It's all about big business and making money. (Probably to make him rich no doubt.)
 

CSFM

Senior member
Oct 16, 2001
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I'm entitled to have strong opinions. That's the way I am.

That would be fine if you based your opinion around some facts that you had gained by involving yourself in some research into the project. I have been following this project closely for a long while now, and although I haven't signed up to be an "insider" (due to not having the time to help in any way), I do know quite a bit about how the OS and I would say that there is a great deal to look forward to. Weather he is doing it for the money or for personal glory is not important. The fact that he is taking on a market obviously monopolised by one company shows great courage.

Not wanting to try it out show a great lack of personal endeavour on your part. I am not having a go at you or anyone else that feels the same as you... I just think you should open your mind a little and allow this guy to have his chance... if you try it and you still think it is no good, then you at least have something to base your opinion on.

Plus, I'm sure you can find place online to d/l the preview edition. So much for being an Insider.

"Insiders" are helping... Doing a favour. Giving up their time to get involved. I think that if you do down load this OS illegally then you're only harming their cause. I do know that this is available to download though... I have seen it around.
 

wildwildwes

Senior member
Jul 18, 2001
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So CSFM, you haven't used it? :)

I suggest you try it. I think you'll be disappointed. My complaint with it was that they're taking linux and trying to be windows. I think this brings out the worst of both operating systems while introducing a major new problem (flaky windows software support). Linux has a disadvantage in that the hardware support isn't as up to date as windows. I doubt that lindows will ever be able to support windows device drivers on linux. I like the windows interface slightly better than x windows (though the configurability of x windows is much better), but the windows dos-ish command interpreter is nothing compared to the linux command line. Lindows wishes it had no command line. And really, windows is a monster. There's no way they could rewrite it with the kind of funding they probably have. At first, I thought the name Lindows was stupid. Then I thought they were trying to get publicity from a microsoft lawsuit. I still think that, but I now believe that it's a perfect name for lindows because it only wants to be kind of like windows. And yes, I would be mad as hell if I paid 100 and didn't get a copy. I think they'll have to give them one or face the wrath of their only supporters.
 

Derango

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Jan 1, 2002
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Not only do you have to pay $99 a year to get the dumbed down OS, you have to pay $99 a year to get a BETA version of the dumbed down OS!!! That is pretty much the opposite of everything linux stands for in the eyes of its community.
 

EHobaX

Member
Oct 16, 2001
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Just because I don't provide any facts behind my opinion doesn't mean I'm not keeping tabs on the Lindows product. I was tired when I made those initial posts, so I just went straight to the point. Just as you, I've researched their product and read reviews on it (all mediocre at best). If hardcore Linux nuts on this forum and many others give it the thumbs down, then there's really no way that I could honestly embrace it.

And since there has been a delay in the release time of Lindows (wasn't it promised to be released in the first quarter of 2002?), it makes me wonder how polished, special, or crappy their product really is.

Don't get me wrong. I support Linux products such as WineX and others. However, they're end result is to be an application for an OS. Not an OS to act as an application. $99 for a pseudo pipe dream is a little bit hard to swallow. Most other (and major) distros are able to handle the ability to release their betas into the public and get support. Why does Lindows feel it should require such a steep price to let people help out on their product? It's hype. And it seems most don't believe it doesn't live up to the hype.
 

CSFM

Senior member
Oct 16, 2001
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<< Just because I don't provide any facts behind my opinion doesn't mean I'm not keeping tabs on the Lindows product. I was tired when I made those initial posts, so I just went straight to the point. Just as you, I've researched their product and read reviews on it (all mediocre at best). If hardcore Linux nuts on this forum and many others give it the thumbs down, then there's really no way that I could honestly embrace it.

And since there has been a delay in the release time of Lindows (wasn't it promised to be released in the first quarter of 2002?), it makes me wonder how polished, special, or crappy their product really is.

Don't get me wrong. I support Linux products such as WineX and others. However, they're end result is to be an application for an OS. Not an OS to act as an application. $99 for a pseudo pipe dream is a little bit hard to swallow. Most other (and major) distros are able to handle the ability to release their betas into the public and get support. Why does Lindows feel it should require such a steep price to let people help out on their product? It's hype. And it seems most don't believe it doesn't live up to the hype.
>>



I think it is a bit early to say weather Lindows is going to be any good. I stress again though that this product is not aimed at Linux users.

It was promised to be out in 1Q2002 but I would imagine that the pending court case with MS is slowing things down a bit.

$99 might be a steep price if your out of work or in Uni. For the average person though, it is a fair and reasonable price. I will be getting a copy of it when it is released, you never know it may become a collectors item!

You have to understand that the guys behind Lindows are not made of money and have never had any income from selling their product yet, so charging people to have an early BETA version of the OS is probably the only way they can put food on their table.

I will finish up here with this comment... "There is always something or someone better out there, keep your eyes and your mind open".

-CSFM-

 

Chooco

Banned
Apr 5, 2002
731
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does this Lindows thing support lots of software?

it cost $100 you say, is that US dollars?
i payed $150 Canadian (about $100 US) for XP Home when i bought my puter, it's a pretty good OS but it's still not as console based as Linux......

Linux beats em both ;)
 

Chooco

Banned
Apr 5, 2002
731
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but does Lindows run windows programs or will it be another Linux where it's not made for games at all?

100 per year is a rip off, Linux RedHat is free :)
 

Rilescat

Senior member
Jan 11, 2002
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I am confused. If Lindows is 99$ per year, then what rationality do they use to say it is cheaper than Windows? I am uncertain about home users, but in business we seem to sit on an OS for 4-5 years before giving it up, whether there is a newer version or not.
 

wildwildwes

Senior member
Jul 18, 2001
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The $99 is essentially a donation to the company. I don't think they've announced what the pricing for the product will be.

If I wanted to donate money though, I sure as hell wouldn't donate it to a company selling closed source linux. If I were specifically interested in linux on the desktop, I would probably give my money to Mandrake because it's an open source project that's already made a lot of progress in making linux easier to use. Or if I wanted to promote windows apps on linux, maybe the WINE project needs some money. But as I see it, this project is very seedy and frankly, i'd rather make a donation to microsoft.
 

Chooco

Banned
Apr 5, 2002
731
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WINE is a b!tch to install though, it wouldn't help bring people to Linux unless it got easier....my buddy took 4 days to get it working and that included asking for help in multiple Linux forums and trying for hours on end because he just likes to find the answer himself.

i would donate to Mandrake or Redhat, i like those groups :)
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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Lindows is the only way Linux can compete for the desktop. Especially with Mac OS X on the market. Linus who? Thank you Jobs :D
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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<< you don't mean Steve Jobs do you?
Jobs, CEO of Mac was a retard.....still is
>>



He saved Apple. He isnt a retard. Go away :)

EDIT: I just wanted to add that if you have some good reasons to call him a retard then please present them. If not, I will label you as a stupid troll and ignore every post of yours. Stupid crap like this is rediculous. Come up with a good reason Jobs is a retard (and please provide more proof than "My mommy told me so") and I will give you good reasons why he is not.
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
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<<

<< you don't mean Steve Jobs do you?
Jobs, CEO of Mac was a retard.....still is
>>



He saved Apple. He isnt a retard. Go away :)

EDIT: I just wanted to add that if you have some good reasons to call him a retard then please present them. If not, I will label you as a stupid troll and ignore every post of yours. Stupid crap like this is rediculous. Come up with a good reason Jobs is a retard (and please provide more proof than "My mommy told me so") and I will give you good reasons why he is not.
>>


he's a communist? ;)

he is definitely a very smart guy.

anyways, i found some lindows news myself.



<< Bruce Perens, former Debian Project Leader and Free Software evangelist, recently sent an open letter to Michael Robertson, CEO of Lindows.com, Inc. Bruce points out very politely that they are both partners, who have agreed to certain rules. The main reason for sending this letter is that a first beta version (binary-only) of LindowsOS, which is said to be based on Debian, has been released to a limited number of beta testers and the company hasn't yet fulfilled its source-code obligation. Bruce was also distressed by Robertsons treatment of the FSF and Bradley Kuhn, which was reported in Newsforge. >>


looks like lindows isnt playing nice with the GPL :p
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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<<

<<

<< you don't mean Steve Jobs do you?
Jobs, CEO of Mac was a retard.....still is
>>



He saved Apple. He isnt a retard. Go away :)

EDIT: I just wanted to add that if you have some good reasons to call him a retard then please present them. If not, I will label you as a stupid troll and ignore every post of yours. Stupid crap like this is rediculous. Come up with a good reason Jobs is a retard (and please provide more proof than "My mommy told me so") and I will give you good reasons why he is not.
>>


he's a communist? ;)

he is definitely a very smart guy.
>>



He's not a communist, just a hippy. :p



<< anyways, i found some lindows news myself.



<< Bruce Perens, former Debian Project Leader and Free Software evangelist, recently sent an open letter to Michael Robertson, CEO of Lindows.com, Inc. Bruce points out very politely that they are both partners, who have agreed to certain rules. The main reason for sending this letter is that a first beta version (binary-only) of LindowsOS, which is said to be based on Debian, has been released to a limited number of beta testers and the company hasn't yet fulfilled its source-code obligation. Bruce was also distressed by Robertsons treatment of the FSF and Bradley Kuhn, which was reported in Newsforge. >>


looks like lindows isnt playing nice with the GPL :p
>>



When do they have to release the code? When they release the product? I believe the GPL says that when you make the binaries available you have to make the source available. Since the binaries that have been sent out are sent out to beta testers, Id still consider them as not released to the public. Unless of course you consider Kazaa as a public release. Robertson said he will release source later. Id wait and see what happens when 1.0 is released myself.
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
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<< When do they have to release the code? When they release the product? I believe the GPL says that when you make the binaries available you have to make the source available. Since the binaries that have been sent out are sent out to beta testers, Id still consider them as not released to the public. Unless of course you consider Kazaa as a public release. Robertson said he will release source later. Id wait and see what happens when 1.0 is released myself. >>


i dunno, i am not a gpl expert/evangelist, but i dont find it surprising that people have issues with lindows' "use" of gpl software....i know this isnt exactly a real technical opinion, but it just *feels* like lindows is out to kick MS in the nads, and isnt really all that jazzed for the open source community.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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<<

<< When do they have to release the code? When they release the product? I believe the GPL says that when you make the binaries available you have to make the source available. Since the binaries that have been sent out are sent out to beta testers, Id still consider them as not released to the public. Unless of course you consider Kazaa as a public release. Robertson said he will release source later. Id wait and see what happens when 1.0 is released myself. >>


i dunno, i am not a gpl expert/evangelist, but i dont find it surprising that people have issues with lindows' "use" of gpl software....i know this isnt exactly a real technical opinion, but it just *feels* like lindows is out to kick MS in the nads, and isnt really all that jazzed for the open source community.
>>



Im sure most people that read my posts know that Im not a huge fan of the GPL, so I may be way off base. But I think I read a while back that Robertson plans on releasing source when the time comes for a 1.0 type release. We will see what happens.