Lincoln Qoute...funny
- Thread starter Deptacon
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Can anyone confirm if Lincoln actually said that? I wonder who gets to determine what actions "damage morale." :roll:
I nominate you to get off your lazy ass and confirm that quote. And I nominate a select group of moralists to determine Kennedy's fate.
In that case, we should be trying our President and most of his administration for high crimes for knowingly endangering the lives of our soldiers.
As venerated as Lincoln is (and I myself do admire him...who doesn't?), he did act in some moronic ways.
In the early days of the Civil War, Lincoln came under fire from a group that was often called the "copperhead Democrats". They opposed the war and sought to broker a truce and call a new constitutional convention to frame an amendment protecting state's rights. In 1861, Lincoln suspended the civil law in certain territories and claimed for himself all powers not specifically delegated in the constitution. In 1862, he suspended habeus corpus and ordered the arrest of many of the leaders of this group under military law. 13,000 people were arrested and imprisoned by his order. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Roger Taney, declared the action unconstitutional, arguing that only Congress can suspend habeas corpus (the same position that the Supreme Court recently took in the Hamdi and Padilla cases) and Lincoln not only ignored the ruling and continued to do what he wanted to do, but issued an arrest warrant for the 84-year old Chief Justice. The warrant was not served, apparently, because they couldn't find a US marshall willing to drag the elderly justice to a military prison.
http://www.stcynic.com/blog/archives/2004/08/lincolns_uncons.php
And just to confirm...yes, he did indeed say that quote.
In the early days of the Civil War, Lincoln came under fire from a group that was often called the "copperhead Democrats". They opposed the war and sought to broker a truce and call a new constitutional convention to frame an amendment protecting state's rights. In 1861, Lincoln suspended the civil law in certain territories and claimed for himself all powers not specifically delegated in the constitution. In 1862, he suspended habeus corpus and ordered the arrest of many of the leaders of this group under military law. 13,000 people were arrested and imprisoned by his order. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Roger Taney, declared the action unconstitutional, arguing that only Congress can suspend habeas corpus (the same position that the Supreme Court recently took in the Hamdi and Padilla cases) and Lincoln not only ignored the ruling and continued to do what he wanted to do, but issued an arrest warrant for the 84-year old Chief Justice. The warrant was not served, apparently, because they couldn't find a US marshall willing to drag the elderly justice to a military prison.
http://www.stcynic.com/blog/archives/2004/08/lincolns_uncons.php
And just to confirm...yes, he did indeed say that quote.
he isnt endagering our lives...fighting is in our job description, sh*t its even in the contract we signed. it even states we could be killed. some people work at wal mart....others are proffesional fighters (us military) chance of being killed ocmes with the job....b rgins me back to the whole point how much i hate hearing that bullshit poor soliders this poor soliders he is getting killed. thats a bunch of bullshit, and every person in the military HATES IT when liberal trouble mkaers say that crap to get attention and political points. siging the contract is all voluntary.....
its something that comes with it. and we dont sit around and get into the politics of every situation (iraq) we go do it. but when some blabbering elitest undermines all the reconstruction we do over there everyday...it deonst help the work we are doing. im not saygin we should censor him, he just needs to tone it down. differnce between making a point and arguing his postion against the war, and actaully underminding our efforts like he is
Two points here. For those of you who agree with the quote, I believe there is a line between disagreeing with the administration and attempting to hurt the country. Whatever else he might have done, Lincoln was piss poor at seeing the difference between the two. It is very possible that doing the best thing for the country is being critical of our leaders. You may think Kennedy crossed that line, but I don't listen very much to people who think EVERYONE who disagrees with Bush is a traitor. You guys have lost all perspective.
Second point, that quote is dead wrong. We do not live in a dictatorship, and as much as you guys might wish it right now, you'll be thankful when your party is out of power again. Congressmen have every right to speak ill of the president and the course of action he is taking. That is why we have three branches of government, something you (and Lincoln) didn't seem to understand. Now if anyone (from the President on down) is acting directly to hurt the country, that's a different story. But violating some vague rule like "hurting morale" make the whole idea nothing more than a tool for partisian idiots to silence the opposition.
I swear to God, sometimes you guys scare me more than bin Laden. I think you hate Democracy almost as much as he does.
Second point, that quote is dead wrong. We do not live in a dictatorship, and as much as you guys might wish it right now, you'll be thankful when your party is out of power again. Congressmen have every right to speak ill of the president and the course of action he is taking. That is why we have three branches of government, something you (and Lincoln) didn't seem to understand. Now if anyone (from the President on down) is acting directly to hurt the country, that's a different story. But violating some vague rule like "hurting morale" make the whole idea nothing more than a tool for partisian idiots to silence the opposition.
I swear to God, sometimes you guys scare me more than bin Laden. I think you hate Democracy almost as much as he does.
after reading it again, your whole sentence is just ignorant. and judging by the rhetoric of it, its just a crappy attempt to make a bush jab.
high crimes... he is a our leader, he has to make decsions that sometimes invlove people dieing. obviously you never served in the military, and if you did you never got past the rank of PEON cause every leader or someone who has been in a leadership postion from a military standpoint understands that sometimes you have to make the decsion that means your guys dieing.
if you havent served, dont make stupid miltiary comments like that, makes you look rediciously ignorant.
Look, I realize what you all signed on to do, and I respect that. So I would hope you expect the same respect from our leaders to not get you killed for stupid reasons. It's not that people object to soldiers dying as much as they object to the reasons for dying. I assume you guys aren't all nihilists and that, if you have to die, you want it to mean something, right?
Whether you guys sitting around complaining about "liberal, trouble making elitists" realize it or not, the real reason people stay stuff like that is that they realize the sacrafice you guys make, and they don't want that sacrafice to be wasted. And I've met many soldiers who understand this, don't think you speak for everyone with you stupid ranting about motives you misunderstand.
oh i agree, just like the churchill situation.. he has every right to say whatever....but have you sat donw and listen ot some of the things that kennedy says. ON A DAY TO DAY basis. that isnt stating his postion. that is straight up underminding the cause. im just saying, if he was a decent and respectable man, he wouldnt do that.
exaclty my point, when kennedy undemrinds things the way he does, calling it a vietnam, he is doing just that. making the cause sound worthless, and wasted. if some of you guys wqould just stay the cours in iraq and not wanna cut tail, IT WILL WORK. it will be successful
thats how MOST soliders, sailors airmen see it, at least everyone i serve with. and they cant stand it! if yo uthink the war is right or not, who cares, we are there now, lets finish it, get it done, get the democary in place. FINISH THE JOB
First off, I surely hope you'll take whatever money you earn from Uncle Sam and put it toward a good foundation in the use of the English language.
Second, yes, our soldiers' lives have been endangered:
1) Being put in theater based upon deception.
2) Being put in theater with improper body armor and vehicular armor.
3) Being forced to act as peacekeepers with about 1/3 the necessary force size that resulted in a drawn-out fight.
I have nothing but the utmost of respect for anyone that voluntarily signs that dotted line and joins the American armed forces. However, I find it imperative that I speak out when I feel our armed forces are being used improperly. This is the case now, much as it was during the Vietnam War. When soldiers are used for purely political motives when no real benefit is to be seen or had, then that is a misuse of our armed forces and an abuse of the trust they place in the government.
Actually, at this point I think we SHOULD finish the job in Iraq. The definition I have of "finish the job" might be a little different than what other people have in mind, but I don't think leaving without setting things right is the right thing to do. I'd feel more comfortable if we seemed to have a good timeline for this, but that's not the point.
My only point was that most people (I don't think) are saying what they are saying because they hate Bush, they really believe the best use of our armed forces, and the best way to respect everyone in the military, is to get you guys out of Iraq as soon as possible. Even though I disagree with the war, at this point I think our best bet is to fix things before we leave. I disagree with people who think leaving right this nano-second is the right choice, just as I disagree with people who think staying around until the end of time is a good idea. But I think our motives are closer than most people might think.
I can't speak to the motives of Kennedy, I never really liked the guy anyways, but I think MOST people on both sides of the fence truly want things to turn out well in Iraq, for the Iraqis and for our soldiers there. We might disagree on how that exactly can come about, but the motives are pretty close (IMHO).
Consider the rhetoric and the ignorance of the pic in your OP, my reply was in kind.
Ah, ad hominem attacks from someone who knows more than me? How? Because you are serving? Then you should most certainly not want to die for deceptive reasons or be used as a pawn. As it stands, it seems you don't mind that you're being used to further a far right-wing agenda of the neocons.
I'll let this piss-poor example of English serve as the ironic statement that it is.
see but i do see good outcomes and motives. Look at lebanon, look at egypt. look at sadi. all of them planning some sort of QUAsi free elections.
Lebannon is protesting syrian occupation and demanding free elections
Egypt has been havin protests for a week demanding REAL free elcetions (not saddam style ones)
Saudi is starting to have elections...no women, still restriced, BUT STILL A START.
IMHO i see that the iraq elections stir things up all over the middle east. showing people it can happen, and everyone is gonna push for it themselves, without us having to ...umm....help with a little muscle....like we did in iraq..hehehe...
yeah your right...stupid rhetoric comments i made, just like the one you did about high crimes. high crimes please.....
fine lets try clintion for cutting our fudning in the 90's by 25%. and taking the us military to lowest readiness rating we had in 50 YEARS! thats endagering soldiers just the same when the leadership isnt propely tkaing care of his subordients.
So, that was worth $200 billion, 1500 dead American soldiers, a few hundred dead "coalition" soldiers, a few hundred dead contractors, and tens of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians?
There's no way diplomacy would have worked the same solution?
You mean trying the GOP Congress that passed those spending bills? Including having had the previous Sec'y of Defense (Cheney) promoting the same cuts in weapons programs?
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