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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
That needs to be abolished. Vote the candidate or office, not the party.
Do you not realize its the parties who are actually in charge?
How do you plan to "abolish" it?
You'd need to get all 300 million of us to see things how they really are and start voting for independents. That is not gonna happen.
The Average American needs safety labels on everything and has to be told stuff that he/she should just look up for themselves.
We, as a country, just arent that advanced or sophisticated. In fact in terms of civilization I think we are actually sliding backwards.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,110
1,887
126
Do you not realize its the parties who are actually in charge?
How do you plan to "abolish" it?
You'd need to get all 300 million of us to see things how they really are and start voting for independents. That is not gonna happen.
The Average American needs safety labels on everything and has to be told stuff that he/she should just look up for themselves.
We, as a country, just arent that advanced or sophisticated. In fact in terms of civilization I think we are actually sliding backwards.
Ranked choice voting would help I think. That way independents can still vote for an independent as #1 but their vote isn't meaningless or wasted if that candidate only gets 0.001% of the votes
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
5,377
466
126
Don’t necessarily have to move away from 2 party system. Just move away from the stupid EC. How different would the 2016 results be if was using a parliamentary system? But this would allow a few independents to pick up a seat.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
Don’t necessarily have to move away from 2 party system. Just move away from the stupid EC. How different would the 2016 results be if was using a parliamentary system? But this would allow a few independents to pick up a seat.
The two party system is a result of our electoral system, not an input. If we had a proportional parliamentary system we would no longer have two parties.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
27,875
8,357
136
The two party system is a result of our electoral system, not an input. If we had a proportional parliamentary system we would no longer have two parties.
Yeah it is just an effect of our Government
Even if somehow we managed to ban all Political Parties, people with common goals would still team up. The fact that someone is teaming with someone else gives them more power and the only answer is to team with someone who has common goals as you. Eventually you will have two big teams of common and conflicting goals.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
Yeah it is just an effect of our Government
Even if somehow we managed to ban all Political Parties, people with common goals would still team up. The fact that someone is teaming with someone else gives them more power and the only answer is to team with someone who has common goals as you. Eventually you will have two big teams of common and conflicting goals.
When winning 51% of the votes gives you 100% of the representation a system will trend towards two options. If we changed our system so that getting 20% of the votes gave you 20% of the power we would see more.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
5,377
466
126
Any background on why the EC was adopted by the founding fathers? Or just to be different from imperial England rules?

And why Americans are so dead set on following the rules made 300 years ago that really no longer applies to modern society?
 

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Senior member
Nov 17, 2019
954
389
96
Dumping 'straight ticket' voting wouldn't be difficult, nor would it involve changing the whole system. Voters could still vote for all of one party, they'd just need to click more than one choice.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,605
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So typical.
Mitch McConnell isn't the only millionaire republican senator pulling this crap....

In iOwa for example, another long term republican senator Chuck Grassley has also cashed out. And continues to cash out. Just look at the photos when Grassley first began his senate seat, and Grassley now today. I truly doubt the founding fathers intended for public service to be a life long job. Or, to make these political crooks into self serving millionaires.

View attachment 21764

Every election cycle, old millionaire Grassley returns to his iOwa farmland roots, exchanges his fancy senate suit for old worn farmer overhauls, then dusts off his old faded blue chevy truck, and travels around the state in that broken down chevy campaigning for re-election. Trying hard to come off as "THAT SIMPLE GOOD OLE BOY FROM FARMLAND IOWA". And they fall for it every time. Those iOwa farmers re-elect this con every time. Over and over. Some 40 years now....
And you can't say the same for establishment democrats?

How do you think AoC got elected?
 
Nov 8, 2012
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lol the fact that you guys are linking these like they are some kind of masterpieces is all too telling of the average intelligence level here.

You're talking about ads that are making fun of Trump for a couple occasions where he used 2 hands to pick up a drink. This is your typical childish political ads - just like any other.

How old are you kids?
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,605
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Dumping 'straight ticket' voting wouldn't be difficult, nor would it involve changing the whole system. Voters could still vote for all of one party, they'd just need to click more than one choice.
I've said before that I'm perfectly content with this - but I'm actually in favor of taking it one step further: Remove any indications of political party. All you have are the names of people.

That means *gasp* you might actually have research who the people are that you're voting for! Crazy, I know.

I say that and then the person who wins elections is going to be the person that changes their name to the weirdest sounding hah.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,605
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When winning 51% of the votes gives you 100% of the representation a system will trend towards two options. If we changed our system so that getting 20% of the votes gave you 20% of the power we would see more.
You know... this might sound crazy... but states actually have the power to distribute their EC votes to be proportional to their votes. Crazy, I know. I'm waiting for those big blue states to line up in favor of that ;)



Also - the establishment system is in place. We can preach all we want about wanting more political parties, etc... at the end of the day not a single party will be in favor of shooting themselves in the foot for any real progressive change (e.g. ranked voting, partial representation, etc.)
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,110
1,887
126
You know... this might sound crazy... but states actually have the power to distribute their EC votes to be proportional to their votes. Crazy, I know. I'm waiting for those big blue states to line up in favor of that ;)



Also - the establishment system is in place. We can preach all we want about wanting more political parties, etc... at the end of the day not a single party will be in favor of shooting themselves in the foot for any real progressive change (e.g. ranked voting, partial representation, etc.)
That goes both ways. Texas is becoming purple. Not to mention 3rd parties would get representation with a sufficient number of votes.
 
Feb 4, 2009
27,875
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lol the fact that you guys are linking these like they are some kind of masterpieces is all too telling of the average intelligence level here.

You're talking about ads that are making fun of Trump for a couple occasions where he used 2 hands to pick up a drink. This is your typical childish political ads - just like any other.

How old are you kids?
Funny, appear to hold Biden to a stricter standard but maybe I am wrong, now is you chance to explain
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
You know... this might sound crazy... but states actually have the power to distribute their EC votes to be proportional to their votes. Crazy, I know. I'm waiting for those big blue states to line up in favor of that ;)
This is a collective action problem, either all states must do it or no states will do it.

Im not aware of anyone arguing that individual states should allocate their votes proportionally. Do you have a link?

Also - the establishment system is in place. We can preach all we want about wanting more political parties, etc... at the end of the day not a single party will be in favor of shooting themselves in the foot for any real progressive change (e.g. ranked voting, partial representation, etc.)
You realize the Democrats have enacted ranked choice voting in a number of areas, super blue New York City included, right?
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,605
3,399
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Funny, appear to hold Biden to a stricter standard but maybe I am wrong, now is you chance to explain
What does holding a glass with 2 hands have to do with cognitive function?

Also you're doing classic strawman by insinuating that I give biden stricter standards. I don't. Donald Trump is a fucking moron. Does that satisfy you?
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,605
3,399
126
This is a collective action problem, either all states must do it or no states will do it.

Im not aware of anyone arguing that individual states should allocate their votes proportionally. Do you have a link?



You realize the Democrats have enacted ranked choice voting in a number of areas, super blue New York City included, right?
I'm guessing you mean amongst their OWN party?

Yeah, thats not what I'm talking about derpington.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
I'm guessing you mean amongst their OWN party?

Yeah, thats not what I'm talking about derpington.
What do you mean amongst their own party? In NYC it applies to special elections as well, which aren’t primaries and in plenty of other places it applies for all elections.

Why not check to see if you’re right before saying something silly?
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,605
3,399
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What do you mean amongst their own party? In NYC it applies to special elections as well, which aren’t primaries and in plenty of other places it applies for all elections.

Why not check to see if you’re right before saying something silly?
Looks like that is specifically for primaries only.... Which doesn't matter. That just means if there's a clown car of 25 democrats running, you can give priority to one and whomever you would take 2nd, 3rd, etc.

It's of no notable difference to do this for primaries - and is only a notable change if it can be done in the general elections.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,491
2,994
126
These guys are fucking killing it. What’s crazy is I’m actually seeing these ads embedded in my TV on a daily basis (I have YouTube TV in NC.) I used to only see pro-Trump PAC ads, and I barely see any actual Biden ads.
You wouldn't see a Biden ad, he isn't the Democrat nominee yet. The General Election has not started.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,269
2,971
126
We all get it, but something is obviously wrong with Trump and he is not sharing that with people!
Watch fatty waddle or watch him hol d glass with 2 hands like a child....
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
Looks like that is specifically for primaries only.... Which doesn't matter. That just means if there's a clown car of 25 democrats running, you can give priority to one and whomever you would take 2nd, 3rd, etc.

It's of no notable difference to do this for primaries - and is only a notable change if it can be done in the general elections.
The city of San Francisco does it for all elections and you don't get any bluer than that.
 

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