Limits to voter registration

[Cozarkian]

The ease of registering is besides the point. Very few here are arguing against some sort of deadline. There was a national disaster which caused many to evacuate, some nonvoluntarily. While still taking into account the logistics of registration verification and processing, extending the deadline to account for a hurricane is perfectly in line with the spirit of the registration law if not the actual letter.

Where do you draw the line? What if a person planned on waiting for the last day to register and they had a family emergency, or they were hit by a car, or their house caught on fire, or.... The risk a person takes in not registering early is that they won't be allowed to register if something bad happens that prevents them from doing so at the last minute.

 

[Aegeon]

Where do you draw the line?

Pretty obviously you basically draw the line at a major disaster or emergency which impacts large numbers of people in the state. If its a personal emergency they are out of luck, but a disaster such as hurricane as previously noted for instance prevented mail from getting delivered or transported which impacted people who had already mailed out their voter registration in advance. (Having said this, there are states which allow things like same day election registration so this is not the only way end up addressing these sorts of issue.)

 

[Cozarkian]

Pretty obviously you basically draw the line at a major disaster or emergency which impacts large numbers of people in the state.

Why? An individual that is shot, kidnapped, or temporarily hospitalized in a major car wreck is just as unable to register, through no fault of their own, than a person evacuated because of weather. As for those people that actually mailed registration forms but had them delayed, the better rule is to go by postmark date rather than delivery date.

Hypothetical: Imagine a state where voter registration deadline is 3 days before the election. On day 5 before the election, a natural disaster results in the forced evacuation of a county for 4 days. As a result, people return 1 day before the election but because of the 4 day extension, they are now able to register to vote the day after the election. Rules that can't result in absurdities should generally be preferred to those that can.

 

[Jhhnn]

Damned Libruhl judges-

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/u...ine-is-extended-a-win-for-democrats.html?_r=0

 

[glenn1]

Damned Libruhl judges-

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/u...ine-is-extended-a-win-for-democrats.html?_r=0

That's OK, it's still a net negative 3 days of deadline nationwide when you consider other states have moved up the deadline to account for Columbus Day weekend. Plus like I said this guarantees that Republicans won't vote for any further easing of voter registration requirements going forward either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2b4c92-8cc2-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

 

[Jhhnn]

That's OK, it's still a net negative 3 days of deadline nationwide when you consider other states have moved up the deadline to account for Columbus Day weekend. Plus like I said this guarantees that Republicans won't vote for any further easing of voter registration requirements going forward either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2b4c92-8cc2-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

Under Scott's governorship, Florida requirements & restrictions have been increased, not decreased, putting the lie to the notion that Repubs intend to win on the basis of honest consensus. They're just more subtle in Florida than in Texas, N Carolina & Wisconsin. Their massive nationwide gerrymandering effort in the wake of the 2010 election tells the same story. Honest democracy is merely an impediment to their goals.

 

[MovingTarget]

Where do you draw the line? What if a person planned on waiting for the last day to register and they had a family emergency, or they were hit by a car, or their house caught on fire, or.... The risk a person takes in not registering early is that they won't be allowed to register if something bad happens that prevents them from doing so at the last minute.

This just seems like more of an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Family emergencies, illness, or injury are individual issues. HURRICANES are huge, collective ones. Sometimes a bit of common sense needs to be applied. Everyone who has experienced a hurricane in person understands it perfectly. Perhaps I should state it like this...how would a person be able to register or obtain the required documents during a mandatory hurricane evacuation? They wouldn't. The state should correct its "error" of shutting down the infrastructures when people could legally have met the deadline.

 

[Cozarkian]

Perhaps I should state it like this...how would a person be able to register or obtain the required documents during a mandatory hurricane evacuation? They wouldn't.

How do you do it if you get shot and go to the hospital on the last day of registration before you can drive to the mailbox? What about a 50-car pile-up? A terrorist threat that locks down a building and keeps people there until after it is too late to postmark the registration?

Voting is an individual right and I don't think it is proper to deny an extension to an individual deprived of the ability to register merely because the uncontrollable event that affected that person didn't affect a large enough group of people.

I only see a few reasonable choices for line drawing. One is the deadline is the deadline and you delay at your own risk. Another would be a shut down on the government side - if all the facilities that process registrations are closed. Come to think of it, that actually probably happened here, but I won't back completely down from my earlier post, because I don't think number of people should be a factor.

 

[Jhhnn]

How do you do it if you get shot and go to the hospital on the last day of registration before you can drive to the mailbox? What about a 50-car pile-up? A terrorist threat that locks down a building and keeps people there until after it is too late to postmark the registration?

Voting is an individual right and I don't think it is proper to deny an extension to an individual deprived of the ability to register merely because the uncontrollable event that affected that person didn't affect a large enough group of people.

I only see a few reasonable choices for line drawing. One is the deadline is the deadline and you delay at your own risk. Another would be a shut down on the government side - if all the facilities that process registrations are closed. Come to think of it, that actually probably happened here, but I won't back completely down from my earlier post, because I don't think number of people should be a factor.

So, Scott was right to refuse the extension because rules, right?

I'm pretty sure that the hurricane & the evacuation broke a whole shitpile of rules.

As we've seen, Scott doesn't really care about the rules as a means to create order but as a means to obtain political advantage. Hell, he said as much in the article I linked. If extending the deadline looked like it would have resulted in more Repub registrations than Dem ones I'm confident he would have done so. I rather suspect he knows that new/ changed registrations trend heavily Democratic & that he could exploit a natural disaster for political ends.

Florida Repubs are holding power only by the skin of their teeth & as much chicanery as they can get away with. They're already outnumbered & greater participation rates will just make that worse, not better for them. They know it & will readily act against the interest of democracy itself when given the opportunity.

 

[Cozarkian]

So, Scott was right to refuse the extension because rules, right?

I'm pretty sure that the hurricane & the evacuation broke a whole shitpile of rules.

As we've seen, Scott doesn't really care about the rules as a means to create order but as a means to obtain political advantage. Hell, he said as much in the article I linked. If extending the deadline looked like it would have resulted in more Repub registrations than Dem ones I'm confident he would have done so. I rather suspect he knows that new/ changed registrations trend heavily Democratic & that he could exploit a natural disaster for political ends.

Florida Repubs are holding power only by the skin of their teeth & as much chicanery as they can get away with. They're already outnumbered & greater participation rates will just make that worse, not better for them. They know it & will readily act against the interest of democracy itself when given the opportunity.

Honestly, I've really delved into the specifics of this situation. I was posting from more of an overview of assessing how to apply rules to the general situation, and I think "number of people" is a terrible factor. I also think that a hurricane evacuation is sufficiently foreseeable that people should realize that they need to register early or lose the chance to do so.

It sucks that the legislature didn't expressly account for a possible occurrence like this and I really think the solution here is to work to improve government so things like this can be handled. The legislature should be able to respond quickly to pass an emergency-extension bill, or the law should include provisions for when it can and can't be extended with lines drawn that try to avoid being arbitrary as much as that is possible.

Obviously, while there is no excuse for not preparing for the above in the future, on this occasion they got caught with their pants down. I'm not actually opposed to granting an extension, but at a cursory glance I don't think it should be constitutionally required - unless of course, there is adequate proof that the motives here were political (I am cynical enough to assume they were, but idealistic enough to not permit a judge to rely upon cynicism in making finding of facts). I didn't read the article, but I'll accept your word that he said as much - that he would provide an extension if it helped his party and agree based thereon, that in this situation an extension should be provided.

However, I see nothing wrong if the Legislature passed the law to make it clear that in the future years the deadline will be firm, no if, ands, buts or natural disasters.

 

[Jhhnn]

Honestly, I've really delved into the specifics of this situation. I was posting from more of an overview of assessing how to apply rules to the general situation, and I think "number of people" is a terrible factor. I also think that a hurricane evacuation is sufficiently foreseeable that people should realize that they need to register early or lose the chance to do so.

It sucks that the legislature didn't expressly account for a possible occurrence like this and I really think the solution here is to work to improve government so things like this can be handled. The legislature should be able to respond quickly to pass an emergency-extension bill, or the law should include provisions for when it can and can't be extended with lines drawn that try to avoid being arbitrary as much as that is possible.

Obviously, while there is no excuse for not preparing for the above in the future, on this occasion they got caught with their pants down. I'm not actually opposed to granting an extension, but at a cursory glance I don't think it should be constitutionally required - unless of course, there is adequate proof that the motives here were political (I am cynical enough to assume they were, but idealistic enough to not permit a judge to rely upon cynicism in making finding of facts). I didn't read the article, but I'll accept your word that he said as much - that he would provide an extension if it helped his party and agree based thereon, that in this situation an extension should be provided.

However, I see nothing wrong if the Legislature passed the law to make it clear that in the future years the deadline will be firm, no if, ands, buts or natural disasters.

Bullshit. You endorse Scott exploiting a natural disaster for partisan political advantage.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is why Scott wanted to shut down voter registration despite the hurricane

http://www.politico.com/states/flor...-numbers-show-democrats-surging-in-fla-106392

Because Florida Repubs are being slaughtered when it comes to new registrations.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I tried to make a Venn diagram for you, but it just comes out a circle.

When it comes to Hillary, is it more or less a mirror image, nobody really "likes" here, but everybody really loathes Trump? Or does she have actual "fans" who are enthusiastic about her?

 

[jackstar7]

When it comes to Hillary, is it more or less a mirror image, nobody really "likes" here, but everybody really loathes Trump? Or does she have actual "fans" who are enthusiastic about her?

She absolutely has fans. Whether they are informed enough about her, I can't say.

For me, she is the pragmatic choice.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

She absolutely has fans. Whether they are informed enough about her, I can't say.

For me, she is the pragmatic choice.

Oh yeah, she definitely has fans. Bill Ivey describes them best:

And as I've mentioned, we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly.