Limits on Logging Are Reinstated

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07...earth/17forest.html?em

In a move to protect endangered species, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar announced Thursday that his department had reversed a Bush administration decision to double the amount of logging allowed in and around old-growth forests in western Oregon.

Veering between swipes at ?indefensible? moves by the Bush administration and pledges to step up noncontroversial timber sales, Mr. Salazar said in a conference call with reporters that he was reinstating a compromise reached 15 years ago to limit logging with the goal of protecting watersheds, trout and salmon fisheries and endangered birds like the spotted owl.

?Today we are taking action to reform Department of Interior and correct mistakes by correcting legal shortcuts the late administration made at the end of its tenure,? Ms. Salazar said.

About time....

The Bush policy, challenged in the courts by environmentalists, would have allowed timber companies to cut up to 502 million board-feet of lumber annually from 2.6 million acres of forests in the region, or about double the amount allowed under the Northwest Forest Plan, the compromise in 1994 reached under President Bill Clinton.

Mr. Salazar?s decision to reverse that policy amid a severe recession is fraught: at 12.1 percent, the unemployment rate in Oregon is among the highest in the country. In Douglas County, where the forestlands involved are situated, the unemployment rate is 16.9 percent, in large part because of closings of sawmills and the loss of timber jobs.

Tom Partin, president of the American Forest Resource Council, expressed frustration with the reversal. ?Oregon is facing double-digit unemployment,? he said in a statement. Opening up logging under the Bush administration?s plan ?would have given our timber-dependent communities a real boost,? he said.

Sucks to be him I guess. Find another job. Intel is hiring an Oregon based company.

We need to preserve our forests not whack it down for $$$ and greed. Thank god bush is gone and mcsame didn't make it in. It would have been a disaster for the environment.

Kristen Boyles, a lawyer with the environmental group Earthjustice, said on Thursday: ?Whopper was not going to be the ticket for Oregon. It would have been a sea of stumps, and not what we needed to see in working Oregon forests.?

She added, ?This is a big step for the Obama administration take.?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Sweet! (Oregonian here)
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
To be fair was the current logging harmful or is this just a feel good measure that will hurt jobs and supply? Loggers are very careful about how they use the wood and replant so there is a constant supply.

I'd like to hear of harm being done to these trout and salmon fisheries or any facts that the logging actually was causing a problem. Just because environmentalist say it is isn't good enough for me.

This doesn't sound good, at all.


"Mr. Salazar?s decision to reverse that policy amid a severe recession is fraught: at 12.1 percent, the unemployment rate in Oregon is among the highest in the country. In Douglas County, where the forestlands involved are situated, the unemployment rate is 16.9 percent, in large part because of closings of sawmills and the loss of timber jobs. "
 

4Christ

Member
Jun 20, 2009
31
0
0
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,736
6,304
126
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.
 

4Christ

Member
Jun 20, 2009
31
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.

I understand you want to preserve it, but what is the point? Like I said, by the time it's a problem to us (MAN) - Christ will have returned and taken His followers to paradise. It is also the day everything will be destroyed, so, again, what is the point in preserving it if you know it's going to be destroyed anyway by God during Rapture?

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: spidey07
To be fair was the current logging harmful or is this just a feel good measure that will hurt jobs and supply? Loggers are very careful about how they use the wood and replant so there is a constant supply.

Always nice to have the right-wing talking points parroted. And every oil company, energy company and every other major corporation only acts highly responsibly.

I'd like to hear of harm being done to these trout and salmon fisheries or any facts that the logging actually was causing a problem. Just because environmentalist say it is isn't good enough for me.

This doesn't sound good, at all.

To you, of course it doesn't.

"Mr. Salazar?s decision to reverse that policy amid a severe recession is fraught: at 12.1 percent, the unemployment rate in Oregon is among the highest in the country. In Douglas County, where the forestlands involved are situated, the unemployment rate is 16.9 percent, in large part because of closings of sawmills and the loss of timber jobs. "

You know that beautiful mountaintop in Yosemite, El Capitan?

A Mining company wanted to blow it up to look for gold. It was brought to Lincoln's attention and that was the start of the federal government protecting nature.

Remember when the desire for the wealth buffalo provided resulted in their near extinction?

Across the planet, rain forests and other important habitats are being destroyed for the needs and enrichment of the local people.

Man isn't always good for the environment. We need to provide some protections.

Even when the locals want the income from logging. Problem is, trees don't get a vote.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.

I understand you want to preserve it, but what is the point? Like I said, by the time it's a problem to us (MAN) - Christ will have returned and taken His followers to paradise. It is also the day everything will be destroyed, so, again, what is the point in preserving it if you know it's going to be destroyed anyway by God during Rapture?

Parody or real?
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Has to parody. Anyone that crazy lives on a commune where they give up their sons and daughters to the head priest.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,736
6,304
126
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.

I understand you want to preserve it, but what is the point? Like I said, by the time it's a problem to us (MAN) - Christ will have returned and taken His followers to paradise. It is also the day everything will be destroyed, so, again, what is the point in preserving it if you know it's going to be destroyed anyway by God during Rapture?

Not sure if you're using Parody, but if you're not: The rest of us are not willing to accept such a ridiculous Worldview such as that. If you are Wrong(and you are), the end result will suck worse than Hell.

edit: ahh, Parody was the word I was looking for ;)
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
After some googling it appears that OR logging is mostly (by a slim margin) on private land. Is this yet more erosion of our freedoms and property rights? If this is sustainable logging then really what's the problem with it?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.

I understand you want to preserve it, but what is the point? Like I said, by the time it's a problem to us (MAN) - Christ will have returned and taken His followers to paradise. It is also the day everything will be destroyed, so, again, what is the point in preserving it if you know it's going to be destroyed anyway by God during Rapture?


Why do I have a feeling you might not be around too long?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.

I understand you want to preserve it, but what is the point? Like I said, by the time it's a problem to us (MAN) - Christ will have returned and taken His followers to paradise. It is also the day everything will be destroyed, so, again, what is the point in preserving it if you know it's going to be destroyed anyway by God during Rapture?

You might want to try actually reading your Bible someday. It doesn't support your argument here.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

We want to Preserve it. What's the problem?

Besides, "God" doesn't have to Live here, We do.

I understand you want to preserve it, but what is the point? Like I said, by the time it's a problem to us (MAN) - Christ will have returned and taken His followers to paradise. It is also the day everything will be destroyed, so, again, what is the point in preserving it if you know it's going to be destroyed anyway by God during Rapture?

Welcome to AT. Enjoy your likely brief stay.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: spidey07
After some googling it appears that OR logging is mostly (by a slim margin) on private land. Is this yet more erosion of our freedoms and property rights? If this is sustainable logging then really what's the problem with it?

This doesn't affect logging on private land. It ONLY affects logging on federal lands, i.e. BLM and national forests.
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
Say that to Californian and their yearly forest fire. Overly dense forest is nto a good thign either.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: spidey07
To be fair
Your idea of fair is to provide a counterpoint to every move the Obama administration makes.

If Obama was pulling Jews out of concentration camps, you would find an argument against it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Say that to Californian and their yearly forest fire. Overly dense forest is nto a good thign either.

Forests should be allowed to burn. It's that they're not allowed to burn that makes them 'overly dense.' Logging does little either way, as most logging is clear-cutting.

And BTW, Californian... with the exception of Humboldt and Del Norte counties, the most 'overly dense' forest in California is a virtual desert compared to the forests of western Oregon we're speaking of here.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: spidey07
To be fair
Your idea of fair is to provide a counterpoint to every move the Obama administration makes.

If Obama was pulling Jews out of concentration camps, you would find an argument against it.

Oh please, nothing in this thread is about Obama. I just don't like knee jerk environmentalist crap with no supporting evidence or what normally is "man is bad, mmkay" evidence. Especially when it causes harm to our people, states and liberties.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: spidey07
To be fair
Your idea of fair is to provide a counterpoint to every move the Obama administration makes.

If Obama was pulling Jews out of concentration camps, you would find an argument against it.

Oh please, nothing in this thread is about Obama. I just don't like knee jerk environmentalist crap with no supporting evidence or what normally is "man is bad, mmkay" evidence. Especially when it causes harm to our people, states and liberties.

You're little different, spidey. You constantly knee-jerk that any reduction in govt corporate handouts is somehow a limitation of personal freedom and property rights, this thread being no exception.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: spidey07
To be fair
Your idea of fair is to provide a counterpoint to every move the Obama administration makes.

If Obama was pulling Jews out of concentration camps, you would find an argument against it.

Oh please, nothing in this thread is about Obama.
Obama's Interior Secretary made the decision.

I just don't like knee jerk corporatist crap with no supporting evidence or what normally is "man is bad, mmkay" evidence.
Fixed.

Especially when it causes harm to our people, states and liberties.
Why haven't you asked yourself the motives behind Bush increasing the logging cap by 100%?
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Say that to Californian and their yearly forest fire. Overly dense forest is nto a good thign either.

Forests should be allowed to burn. It's that they're not allowed to burn that makes them 'overly dense.' Logging does little either way, as most logging is clear-cutting.

And BTW, Californian... with the exception of Humboldt and Del Norte counties, the most 'overly dense' forest in California is a virtual desert compared to the forests of western Oregon we're speaking of here.

How about cutting them and then replant the area with new tree? That surely as hell beat all the co2 release during those yearly forest fire. Sell the tree for money, less forest fire, everyone win beside the California treehugger.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: 4Christ
Environmentalists don't understand. This Earth was given to MAN by God to do whatever he wants to it until Christ returns.

Who cares if it damages the environment? By the time it's a problem, Christ will have returned and we'll be taken to paradise.

ROFL

*pukes*

*scoops up puke with shovel and tosses it on 4Christ*