db
Lifer
- Dec 6, 1999
- 10,575
- 292
- 126
Shame on me for not reading the post.
All I can say is, Rush is a hypocrite, and yet an able BS'er, so he will get minimum punishment (if any) over this.
You could also say that RL provides a mental-political FIX for his DittoHeads, telling them what they want to hear and therefor making them temporarily feel good (since they're all depressed), and this makes him a hero to them. Is it any wonder that since he understands how this process works, he is unwilling to settle for mere verbal fixes for himself? Naw, it's the real thing for him!
All I can say is, Rush is a hypocrite, and yet an able BS'er, so he will get minimum punishment (if any) over this.
You could also say that RL provides a mental-political FIX for his DittoHeads, telling them what they want to hear and therefor making them temporarily feel good (since they're all depressed), and this makes him a hero to them. Is it any wonder that since he understands how this process works, he is unwilling to settle for mere verbal fixes for himself? Naw, it's the real thing for him!
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
I do not think people should be put in jail for drugs. Putting them in jail only screws their life up more.
I still don't think that you read/comprehended the entire first post. WinstonSmith has formulated an intelligent opinion about drug use and its consequences in contemporary America. Iirion has responded with some opposing, yet still intelligent opinions.
If you don't want to read a post, that's fine, but why respond if you haven't?
db
Lifer
- Dec 6, 1999
- 10,575
- 292
- 126
There are so many points that could be touched on from Winston Smith's original post.
One thing is for sure, though: until attitudes are changed in this country, things will continue as they are.
The drug laws in America are based on ignorance.
We all have the same problem: seeing the problems in others while not seeing the same or similar problems in ourselves.
btw, I used to have dancesafe.org in my sig, but had to remove it b/c people here thought it promoted drug use. It doesn't--it just deals with reality and says that IF you are going to use (dance) drugs (and please don't), be safe about it by lessening your risks, both for yourself and for others.
That's kind of like the approach of saying to your kid: "We've talked a lot about why you should not have sex before marriage; but if you ever do have sex, please use a condom".
DrugPolicy.org
DanceSafe.org
One thing is for sure, though: until attitudes are changed in this country, things will continue as they are.
The drug laws in America are based on ignorance.
We all have the same problem: seeing the problems in others while not seeing the same or similar problems in ourselves.
btw, I used to have dancesafe.org in my sig, but had to remove it b/c people here thought it promoted drug use. It doesn't--it just deals with reality and says that IF you are going to use (dance) drugs (and please don't), be safe about it by lessening your risks, both for yourself and for others.
That's kind of like the approach of saying to your kid: "We've talked a lot about why you should not have sex before marriage; but if you ever do have sex, please use a condom".
DrugPolicy.org
DanceSafe.org
db,
I see you point. When I was in H.S. drugs were so different. Not the scary crap that is out there today... I would be terrified to be a teenager in today's world for many reasons.
My 19yr old daughter, thank God, has no interest in drugs. drinks moderately, doesnt smoke either. It is my opinion that teaching your kids about not having sex too early, or not doing drugs or other stuff is not about sitting them down one day, and having 'the talk'. It is more like a lifestyle from day one... LOL
I see you point. When I was in H.S. drugs were so different. Not the scary crap that is out there today... I would be terrified to be a teenager in today's world for many reasons.
My 19yr old daughter, thank God, has no interest in drugs. drinks moderately, doesnt smoke either. It is my opinion that teaching your kids about not having sex too early, or not doing drugs or other stuff is not about sitting them down one day, and having 'the talk'. It is more like a lifestyle from day one... LOL
Sure, and I have numerous things in common with Hitler. I have hair, I wear shoes, I have likes and dislikes, I go places and do things, I read and write, all of which Hitler did, too. Because I haven't directed the genocide of a few million people, changes nothing at all. Hitler and I are the same.
Similarly, addiction could happen to anyone, just as being hit by a car can happen to anyone. I would certainly see a difference between the person who throws themselves into on-coming traffic vs. a person who is run-over while on the sidewalk.
Attempting to 'equate' things that are sufficiently different by focusing on all similiarities while ignoring all differences between them is one hallmark of a dishonest thought process. A dishonest thought process might enable someone, for example, to fault the person driving the car in all instances where car meets human. It is classic rationalization to validate one's prejudices or views without having to bother with all those pesky contradictions or complexities.
For example, there is no difference between becoming addicted to opiates (heroin) through one's own gross personal negligence and becoming addicted to opiates (prescription narcotics) through being prescribed pain-killers by a physician for the treatment of severe pain after unsuccessful back surgery.
Nope, no difference at all between getting high purely for the sake of getting high and taking lawfully prescribed painkillers for severe back pain. They're the same.
Exactly. Just like a woman shooting a rapist who is pumelling her face into bits and a woman just walking into the supermarket and shooting the cashier for short-changing her.
Two different roads, same place. Its all 1st degree murder, no excuses or explanations.
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Sure, and I have numerous things in common with Hitler. I have hair, I wear shoes, I have likes and dislikes, I go places and do things, I read and write, all of which Hitler did, too. Because I haven't directed the genocide of a few million people, changes nothing at all. Hitler and I are the same.
Similarly, addiction could happen to anyone, just as being hit by a car can happen to anyone. I would certainly see a difference between the person who throws themselves into on-coming traffic vs. a person who is run-over while on the sidewalk.
Attempting to 'equate' things that are sufficiently different by focusing on all similiarities while ignoring all differences between them is one hallmark of a dishonest thought process. A dishonest thought process might enable someone, for example, to fault the person driving the car in all instances where car meets human. It is classic rationalization to validate one's prejudices or views without having to bother with all those pesky contradictions or complexities.
For example, there is no difference between becoming addicted to opiates (heroin) through one's own gross personal negligence and becoming addicted to opiates (prescription narcotics) through being prescribed pain-killers by a physician for the treatment of severe pain after unsuccessful back surgery.
Nope, no difference at all between getting high purely for the sake of getting high and taking lawfully prescribed painkillers for severe back pain. They're the same.
Well this is interesting. You make an appeal to logic and against dishonest thinking and turn right around and imply that saying that Rush has something in common with other addicts is like saying you are the same as Hitler because you and he wear shoes. No, you are not the same, you have something in common, just like Winston said. Please be honest about your implications. Geez.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Tcsenter,
I tried to correlate your post to Winston to that of Winston's and I just couldn't find the nexus.
What I was able to discern aside from the syllogism based on the false premise regarding that dead Austrian fellow, was; addiction based on two alternate but similar paths. The one presumes, I suppose, that it is the physician who is at fault for not solving the cause of Rush's pain and the subsequent issue of Rx to moderate the pain which then induced Rush to become addicted and the fault of the 'common' person suffering physical and or emotional pain and the failure of someone to remedy it and the addiction to moderating substances of these street urchins to ease their 'pain' circumstances.
I'm probably not reading you correctly, and if so I offer, in advance, my apology.
In any event, the issue as I read it is the variance between the haves and havenots regarding the view society has toward the drug user/abuser.
As you know, in California Prop 36 provided the Courts with 'drug court' and it has filled the rehabs with the folks who have been arrested and had the option to enter the program. This has removed from the yet to be caught folks the ability to enter a rehab and get clean. They are full. There is a waiting list that stretches months and months and they are compelled to take the court mandated folks first. This means that the doper on the street does not have the ability anymore to get clean unless they break the law and get processed into the judicial system. Contrast this to the Rushs of the world. These elite folks not only get the sympathy but they have the $ to enter in and get clean. And keep doing it as their situation warrants. The courts do give deferential treatment to the Royalty of our nation. I think Winston was saying that this is unfair. That Rush is no better than the commoner but because of his status of Royal he transends the mediocrity and is afforded his proper station in life as the Royal he is. No gallows for Rush.. it would be unseemly for a Royal to be thusly punished.
FYI, I have an Rx for Oxycontin but, hardly ever take it. I'm very worried about the effects of this drug. I have to be well beyond the 10 on the pain scale to even think about it. But, then I don't have to function as Rush does... so perhaps we have caused his malady by demanding he appear and edify us with what only he has the ability and insight to do. Me, I only edify my dog and he don't much listen anyway so I've no one to blame but, me and I choose to not blame anyone so I avoid it. Could Rush avoid it.. I think so.. can the common among us avoid it? I think so. But, once in the grasp who gets treated and who does not and how...
I tried to correlate your post to Winston to that of Winston's and I just couldn't find the nexus.
What I was able to discern aside from the syllogism based on the false premise regarding that dead Austrian fellow, was; addiction based on two alternate but similar paths. The one presumes, I suppose, that it is the physician who is at fault for not solving the cause of Rush's pain and the subsequent issue of Rx to moderate the pain which then induced Rush to become addicted and the fault of the 'common' person suffering physical and or emotional pain and the failure of someone to remedy it and the addiction to moderating substances of these street urchins to ease their 'pain' circumstances.
I'm probably not reading you correctly, and if so I offer, in advance, my apology.
In any event, the issue as I read it is the variance between the haves and havenots regarding the view society has toward the drug user/abuser.
As you know, in California Prop 36 provided the Courts with 'drug court' and it has filled the rehabs with the folks who have been arrested and had the option to enter the program. This has removed from the yet to be caught folks the ability to enter a rehab and get clean. They are full. There is a waiting list that stretches months and months and they are compelled to take the court mandated folks first. This means that the doper on the street does not have the ability anymore to get clean unless they break the law and get processed into the judicial system. Contrast this to the Rushs of the world. These elite folks not only get the sympathy but they have the $ to enter in and get clean. And keep doing it as their situation warrants. The courts do give deferential treatment to the Royalty of our nation. I think Winston was saying that this is unfair. That Rush is no better than the commoner but because of his status of Royal he transends the mediocrity and is afforded his proper station in life as the Royal he is. No gallows for Rush.. it would be unseemly for a Royal to be thusly punished.
FYI, I have an Rx for Oxycontin but, hardly ever take it. I'm very worried about the effects of this drug. I have to be well beyond the 10 on the pain scale to even think about it. But, then I don't have to function as Rush does... so perhaps we have caused his malady by demanding he appear and edify us with what only he has the ability and insight to do. Me, I only edify my dog and he don't much listen anyway so I've no one to blame but, me and I choose to not blame anyone so I avoid it. Could Rush avoid it.. I think so.. can the common among us avoid it? I think so. But, once in the grasp who gets treated and who does not and how...
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
LR,
Regarding Rush, I would say that you have framed my post correctly regarding disparities in treatment. I chose not to go into the specifics of Rush's case in great detail, since I didn't that to become the focus of this thread. Apparently I ought to, since others have questioned relevance. I would remind some that Rush said he made a CHOICE to take these meds. Although the precise details have yet to come out, I point out that this story came to light when people who were selling illicit drugs mentioned Rush as a drug seeker. Unless they used telepathy, there would be no practical way for them to know about his problems. Rush decides to check into a rehab when? When he got caught. I repeat, Rush is no better or worse than any other addict who does not commit violent crime to get their fix.
So is Rush suffering from victim mentality? I don't really care. It wasn't germaine to the point, which was twofold. First the inequity of treatment by society and in the criminal system. Second that treatment for everyone ought to be consistent and helpful, not calculated to make lives even more miserable. I was arguing that Rush ought to be treated just as well as someone of lesser public standing. They both ought to be treated in a way that benefits all. That is the ultimate goal.
Regarding Rush, I would say that you have framed my post correctly regarding disparities in treatment. I chose not to go into the specifics of Rush's case in great detail, since I didn't that to become the focus of this thread. Apparently I ought to, since others have questioned relevance. I would remind some that Rush said he made a CHOICE to take these meds. Although the precise details have yet to come out, I point out that this story came to light when people who were selling illicit drugs mentioned Rush as a drug seeker. Unless they used telepathy, there would be no practical way for them to know about his problems. Rush decides to check into a rehab when? When he got caught. I repeat, Rush is no better or worse than any other addict who does not commit violent crime to get their fix.
So is Rush suffering from victim mentality? I don't really care. It wasn't germaine to the point, which was twofold. First the inequity of treatment by society and in the criminal system. Second that treatment for everyone ought to be consistent and helpful, not calculated to make lives even more miserable. I was arguing that Rush ought to be treated just as well as someone of lesser public standing. They both ought to be treated in a way that benefits all. That is the ultimate goal.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Winston,
To reply to your post I have to think about it awhile. I'll Post a reply that you can include in your submission to the folks you intend to submit to.
But, initially I'd say; it is an equally divided issue. That is: The source of illicit drugs and the use of them by folks with a myriad of reasons to use and the suppliers seeking $ and expansion of their empire of slaves. You cannot solve one with out solving the other at the same time.. I just don't, at the moment, see a $ available to go into the education, rehabilitation and interdiction of the problem..
edit: Re your latest post to me..
I really didn't address your main thesis in my response to Tcsenter. As I said above, the idea is to become involved in our societial issues and what could be more important than this issue. We all can be part of the cure and shouldn't we oughta.
To reply to your post I have to think about it awhile. I'll Post a reply that you can include in your submission to the folks you intend to submit to.
But, initially I'd say; it is an equally divided issue. That is: The source of illicit drugs and the use of them by folks with a myriad of reasons to use and the suppliers seeking $ and expansion of their empire of slaves. You cannot solve one with out solving the other at the same time.. I just don't, at the moment, see a $ available to go into the education, rehabilitation and interdiction of the problem..
edit: Re your latest post to me..
I really didn't address your main thesis in my response to Tcsenter. As I said above, the idea is to become involved in our societial issues and what could be more important than this issue. We all can be part of the cure and shouldn't we oughta.
"What will probably happen points out, the inequities of society and the justice system when dealing with the ?commoners? (most of us) and the aristocracy (Rush, other celebs., and the wealthy in general).
What a crock. What exactly do you think happens to people who go to a drug treatment program? He wasn't 'caught' in a sting operation or 'caught' in the act. Sheesh!
Same thing will happen to him as would happen to you or me. No authorities will even be called in.
What a crock. What exactly do you think happens to people who go to a drug treatment program? He wasn't 'caught' in a sting operation or 'caught' in the act. Sheesh!
Same thing will happen to him as would happen to you or me. No authorities will even be called in.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Originally posted by: Ornery
"What will probably happen points out, the inequities of society and the justice system when dealing with the ?commoners? (most of us) and the aristocracy (Rush, other celebs., and the wealthy in general).
What a crock. What exactly do you think happens to people who go to a drug treatment program? He wasn't 'caught' in a sting operation or 'caught' in the act. Sheesh!
Same thing will happen to him as would happen to you or me. No authorities will even be called in.
I didn't gleem that from Winston's post. But, that aside, in Ca. there is no room in the rehabs due to prop 36 which sorta created a drug court. The folks go from court to mandated rehab of up to a year. This brilliant issue does eliminate many from a jail sentence which frees up space for other criminals without building more facilities. It provides for the possible rehabilitation of the individual but, eliminates the space for the folks who did not apply via the Justice system. Most if not all of these folks cannot afford Betty Ford. There is a waiting list months and months long and actually with the court volume there will never be space available.
Rush was caught. Perhaps not in the act. How often is anyone caught in the act? Seldom! There is at least some credible evidence that he procured illicit drugs. He is a criminal if this is true. But, he has the bucks and the Royalty on his side. If this is true, the allegations, then the system will let him enter the treatment of his choice and emerge 'clean' and go back to telling America if he can do it any one can. He'd be right of course, this is only his third attempt..
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
"Rush was caught. Perhaps not in the act. How often is anyone caught in the act? Seldom! There is at least some credible evidence that he procured illicit drugs. He is a criminal if this is true. But, he has the bucks and the Royalty on his side..."
If you don't get busted, you don't do time, or even go to court for that matter. That goes for everybody, rich or poor, right or left, famous or infamous.
If you don't get busted, you don't do time, or even go to court for that matter. That goes for everybody, rich or poor, right or left, famous or infamous.
That has NOTHING to do with the original, long winded, totally retarded topic. He ain't getting special treatment... period!
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