I have dreamed of a day when PC developers would release games without all of the patching BS. It might be OCDish, but I can't bring myself to playing a PC game I just installed without patching it, it feels dirty. They need to just release the game when it's done, when they can't find any more bugs, instead of releasing it early and patching it later.
I have dreamed of a day when PC developers would release games without all of the patching BS. It might be OCDish, but I can't bring myself to playing a PC game I just installed without patching it, it feels dirty. They need to just release the game when it's done, when they can't find any more bugs, instead of releasing it early and patching it later.
The phrase 'hard copy' to me means a print out, on paper. Surely a digital file on a cd is not a 'hard copy'?
(I do, of course, print out all my games, in hexadecimal, on huge piles of paper, just so I can type them back in again if something goes wrong.)
(I do, of course, print out all my games, in hexadecimal, on huge piles of paper, just so I can type them back in again if something goes wrong.)
lxskllr
No Lifer
- Nov 30, 2004
- 60,359
- 10,758
- 126
Yea, keep dreaming... I don't mind obscure bug fixes, and things that might not be readily apparent during initial testing, but some of the crap that gets released is mind boggling. They should sell it 50%-60% off with the understanding that you're doing their alpha/beta testing for them.
WildW
Senior member
I can live with hard copies or download versions - I tend to do both, mainly because Steam's weekend deals can be pretty good.
I do wish though that the corporations would play fair. They seem to want it both ways . . . they don't want us to be able to back-up or sell on the things we bought because we didn't buy a real object, we only bought a licence to use the content. That's fine with me. But they then want us to buy that licence more than once because apparently a format change renders your licence void. If I bought the rights to watch the content of a movie I should be able to trade in my existing DVD and pay a small fee to cover the cost of sending me the BluRay. And I have a bunch of vinyl discs that are all scratched up, but thankfully the licence to the content is indestructable - please mail me my CD versions.
I do wish though that the corporations would play fair. They seem to want it both ways . . . they don't want us to be able to back-up or sell on the things we bought because we didn't buy a real object, we only bought a licence to use the content. That's fine with me. But they then want us to buy that licence more than once because apparently a format change renders your licence void. If I bought the rights to watch the content of a movie I should be able to trade in my existing DVD and pay a small fee to cover the cost of sending me the BluRay. And I have a bunch of vinyl discs that are all scratched up, but thankfully the licence to the content is indestructable - please mail me my CD versions.
I run windows home server, its like Steam for my computer. 
But I don't keep boxes for anything computer related.
I wonder when/if steam is going to get that going when they save all keyboard shortcut/settings on servers so you don't have to redue them each time when you reinstall a game? I think just a couple games have it, but I wonder if Valve is going to force that for every game..that would be awesome.
KMFJD, 20gig cap each month! That is just pathetic, i feel for you. I would use that up in a couple days. Guess you are in Europe or someplace? I downloaded 389.3 gigs this month so far. lol
But I don't keep boxes for anything computer related.
I wonder when/if steam is going to get that going when they save all keyboard shortcut/settings on servers so you don't have to redue them each time when you reinstall a game? I think just a couple games have it, but I wonder if Valve is going to force that for every game..that would be awesome.
KMFJD, 20gig cap each month! That is just pathetic, i feel for you. I would use that up in a couple days. Guess you are in Europe or someplace? I downloaded 389.3 gigs this month so far. lol
1. You can play steam games even if company goes bust. As long as you have the data you can play the game.
2. DRM is not a issue for most games.
3. It is cheaper on steam for lots of games. Half Life 2 and Team Fortress 2 was cheaper, lots of combos cheaper as well.
Exactly what AmberClad said. I reformat and do a lot of readjusting way too often. It basically means I'm on a constant downloading loop / queue everytime I go to bed and to work to get all my games back. This is to me the only real downside of digital copies, as I honestly like Steam and they have awesome deals from time to time. I don't like DRM like the next guy, but it's just a sign of the times now. Fighting it is a noble battle, but being gung-ho about it means you're stuck to console gaming for the good duration.
It sounds like you do a ridiculous amount of reformatting. Unless you have a real slow connection. Also look into the backups to another hard drive or DVD. You could at least make a full backup of Steam games every year or so so that anything downloaded is just patches.
Yeah I'm of those folks that has OCD with computers. After 2 or 3 months my computer needs a reformat, since it feels dirty and sluggish... even if that's far from the truth. I always like my computer to run at it's optimal configuration, and typically formats allow you to get that "new car smell" so to speak.
Also I've done backups before, but they always seem to mess up somewhere down the line. Some games just don't patch correctly or patch and then mess up. It just comes with the territory I guess. I don't have a slow connection at all (1.5 Megabytes/Sec with Time Warner here in SoCal), but I do have a lot of games on Steam. And since I allow my family members to use my internet connection, I'm regulated to downloading bulk at night when I sleeep; otherwise everyone else on the line will get slideshow internet speeds.
If you read my post, I specifically said media. The main precedents are audio and video, although EA has shut down multiplayer for their games. Google for the list. Just because there hasn't been a major player in digital game sales that has gone under or been downsized yet, doesn't mean there won't be one. The way a company conducts itself when it's in business and making a profit is one thing, but if any of these companies go under or are acquired by another company with different priorities, odds are the consumers are going to be stuck holding the bag.
If you want to play the games for a limited period of time, during the few years after your download, then I don't see a problem. If you want guaranteed access to the game indefinitely, then that's another thing. As I said, I do have some Steam games, but I think of them more as extended, long-term rentals. That's probably good enough for most people for most games most of the time. For favorites and classics, I like to know that I'll be able to grab them off the shelf and have another play through anytime.
TurtleCrusher
Lifer
- Apr 20, 2008
- 10,067
- 990
- 126
sanzen07
Senior member
- Feb 15, 2007
- 402
- 1
- 0
I seriously can't figure out why people do this. Unless you're getting viruses there really is absolutely zero benefit to this. It's such a huge waste of time. Think of all the other fun things you could be doing besides wasting hours of your life reinstalling an operating system. I haven't installed in around 2 years now (when I installed Vista 64-bit) and my PC is as snappy as it was then.
Also, I used to be strictly hardcopy only. However, I am slowly beginning to realize there's not much point in getting boxed games because all they do is sit on a shelf. Maybe vintage games are cool to have boxed since they have a lot more character than most of the crap that is churned out these days. Also, any Valve game is pretty much pointless to have a box for since once you activate it on Steam you can't resell it anyway.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I didnt read anything else you posted, because you didnt even research the first statement you made. Try getting some facts, before posting.
JoshGuru7
Golden Member
- Aug 18, 2001
- 1,020
- 1
- 0
I think the risk of your library on steam being permanently lost is fairly small. Valve can certainly fail but it would be in spite of steam, which has real value as a distribution and marketing platform. If Valve were to close up shop (or needed to raise capital) then Steam might be sold, but I think it's extremely improbable that it would be discarded outright because they couldn't find an interested buyer. Your worst case scenario is probably EA buying it and sticking powerade commercials all over the launchers.
Back on topic, I like and use Steam even though I normally prefer to own other media such as movies and novels. I think the difference when it comes to computer games is that I don't particularly like to play older titles. I remember them extremely fondly and will often end up purchasing remakes (secret of monkey island SE), but I'm of the opinion that games just don't hold up over time the same way that good movies and novels do.
It's not just graphics that have gotten better, but also a bunch of things like user interface, sound, networking and even many once-original features that have now been copied to the point that even the terrible games of 2009 have a much higher degree of sophistication than the great games of 1999. Consider what sort of reviews your favorite classic game would actually get if it was released next month with it's original graphics, interface, sound and networking. That might sound like an unfair question, but when you're deciding what game to play now it makes sense to compare them in terms of now rather than how innovative and influential they were in the past.
As a result, even in the very improbable worst case scenario that all of my steam library is lost it isn't the end of the world. If it happened today there are only a few games in my library of 50+ titles that I would immediately purchase again - the newest strategy games that I haven't gotten tired of yet (anno 1404, Civ 4, empire:total war). The rest of my library (FPS/RTS/RPG) would just be replaced by sequels or newer games as they were released, ala Mass Effect 2 over Mass Effect, BioShock 2 over Bioshock, and so on.
Back on topic, I like and use Steam even though I normally prefer to own other media such as movies and novels. I think the difference when it comes to computer games is that I don't particularly like to play older titles. I remember them extremely fondly and will often end up purchasing remakes (secret of monkey island SE), but I'm of the opinion that games just don't hold up over time the same way that good movies and novels do.
It's not just graphics that have gotten better, but also a bunch of things like user interface, sound, networking and even many once-original features that have now been copied to the point that even the terrible games of 2009 have a much higher degree of sophistication than the great games of 1999. Consider what sort of reviews your favorite classic game would actually get if it was released next month with it's original graphics, interface, sound and networking. That might sound like an unfair question, but when you're deciding what game to play now it makes sense to compare them in terms of now rather than how innovative and influential they were in the past.
As a result, even in the very improbable worst case scenario that all of my steam library is lost it isn't the end of the world. If it happened today there are only a few games in my library of 50+ titles that I would immediately purchase again - the newest strategy games that I haven't gotten tired of yet (anno 1404, Civ 4, empire:total war). The rest of my library (FPS/RTS/RPG) would just be replaced by sequels or newer games as they were released, ala Mass Effect 2 over Mass Effect, BioShock 2 over Bioshock, and so on.
Raduque
Lifer
- Aug 22, 2004
- 13,140
- 138
- 106
PC Games actually have a way to deny the ability to resell.
CDs and Movies don't yet have that ability. The MPAA and RIAA would really rather you not sell them second hand. They'd LOVE to kill the second hand market completely.
Unfortunately, wanderer27 is right. In the steam TOS, it even says that Valve is under no obligation to continue to allow access to the service. They can cancel you for any reason, or no reason, and you really legally have pretty much zero recourse.
Steam can shutdown tomorrow night and Valve can simply say it's because they wanted to, and we all agreed to it when we joined.
It's coming. Google up Steamworks.
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
- 216
- 106
The last game I bought retail, brand new, on the shelves, was Valve's Orange Box (yes, retail). That was back in October 2007. The other retail games I bought afterwards were all second-hand, some of them old, bought mostly from eBay (and I'm crossing my fingers, but so far after 20+ purchases of used games there I haven't had a single issue, perhaps it's just luck, but I'm happy with that). The "novelty" of physical copies, having a box, an instruction manual and the CD-ROM(s)/DVD(s) has worn off for me since Steam grew up and saw new titles added to it. I do still keep buying used retail copies from eBay or sometimes, very rarely so, I actually go to a store, local or not, to find a game I've been looking for but didn't felt like buying it on-line (last one in that category is Baldur's Gate II, which I luckily found by pure coincidence in some random generic store when I went to my counsin's and was passing by there and stopped to take a look, it was still a used copy, but retail, that's the point here).
Back in the days it was of course all we had, retail and physical copies, so we've pretty much all been growing up with that and got used to it fast enough, and we've also pretty much all had to make the transition to PC games being sold brand new in stores commonly so, to the point where you can't even rent them anymore, and when you do find them they're used and put in some obscure corner of a store where almost no one goes and takes the time to move the boxes around in the "used PC games basket" where they've all been thrown there like the waste they apparently became. I can already picture the gamers of tomorrow being told by their grand-parents (that may end up be ourselves here, it could happen that fast) how it was in their "good old days" when physical copies of games "even for Consoles!" were made, and the look of them kids in absolute confusion on just how that would even be possible.
Times change things, and adaptation is needed, at the moment we're still in a point in that change where we can make the choice between digital or physical purchases, but, in my book, I would say that ultimately any forms of physical purchases of games, even on Consoles, is something called to disappear over any given period of time necessary to do so, but I'm fairly certain that it will happen one day or another, maybe not during my living, but maybe our kids or their own next of kin will see that happen and look at our current period in history books. All of this seems far-fetched for even myself whose typing it, but I can tell you this; never would I have ever been able to even imagine only 10 years ago that one day I would be able to purchase and download a full game from the seat of my room without moving more than my personal computer's mouse, much less start questioning the actual usefulness of physical copies. So, in the end, to actually answer the thread's main question, yes, I do like having a physical copy of a game, used or not, but by now, after some adaptation over the last couple of years, I can tell you that if tomorrow I would be told that it wouldn't be possible anymore and could only buy my games on-line, I wouldn't faint about it and would simply move on to the new trends.
Back in the days it was of course all we had, retail and physical copies, so we've pretty much all been growing up with that and got used to it fast enough, and we've also pretty much all had to make the transition to PC games being sold brand new in stores commonly so, to the point where you can't even rent them anymore, and when you do find them they're used and put in some obscure corner of a store where almost no one goes and takes the time to move the boxes around in the "used PC games basket" where they've all been thrown there like the waste they apparently became. I can already picture the gamers of tomorrow being told by their grand-parents (that may end up be ourselves here, it could happen that fast) how it was in their "good old days" when physical copies of games "even for Consoles!" were made, and the look of them kids in absolute confusion on just how that would even be possible.
Times change things, and adaptation is needed, at the moment we're still in a point in that change where we can make the choice between digital or physical purchases, but, in my book, I would say that ultimately any forms of physical purchases of games, even on Consoles, is something called to disappear over any given period of time necessary to do so, but I'm fairly certain that it will happen one day or another, maybe not during my living, but maybe our kids or their own next of kin will see that happen and look at our current period in history books. All of this seems far-fetched for even myself whose typing it, but I can tell you this; never would I have ever been able to even imagine only 10 years ago that one day I would be able to purchase and download a full game from the seat of my room without moving more than my personal computer's mouse, much less start questioning the actual usefulness of physical copies. So, in the end, to actually answer the thread's main question, yes, I do like having a physical copy of a game, used or not, but by now, after some adaptation over the last couple of years, I can tell you that if tomorrow I would be told that it wouldn't be possible anymore and could only buy my games on-line, I wouldn't faint about it and would simply move on to the new trends.
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
- 642
- 126
I only use steam to purchase games that are on sale. It has some disadvantages to me.
1. I have DSL internet which is relatively slow. It took over a full day to download company of heroes and the tales of valor expansion.
2. I like to have a CD to use to install onto a second computer which is not connected to the internet.
3. I agree that there is a possibility that steam could go out of business and leave us unable to play the games.
The biggest disadvantage to me though is having to be connected to the internet to play.
1. I have DSL internet which is relatively slow. It took over a full day to download company of heroes and the tales of valor expansion.
2. I like to have a CD to use to install onto a second computer which is not connected to the internet.
3. I agree that there is a possibility that steam could go out of business and leave us unable to play the games.
The biggest disadvantage to me though is having to be connected to the internet to play.
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
- 216
- 106
Just to play? You don't have to be connected to the Internet to play on Steam, if Steam does not detect an active connection it automatically starts in off-line mode. It's doing that for me, I wouldn't understand why it doesn't for you. You only need to be connected if you want to activate a game for the first time usage or want to play the game(s) on-line (or if you want to watch media or other on-line only stuff on Steam of course).
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
- 642
- 126
Maybe I dont understand how steam works then. I havent really tried to play offline, but if I wanted to install a game on a computer not connected to the internet, could I (theoretically) transfer the game from another computer that had downloaded the game from the Steam? I understand this might violate the terms of use, but I am just asking if it is possible to do it.
Scenario:
1. You have a new HD or have to reformat your HD (due to failure, corruption, whatever).
2. Steam is offline.
Where is your game?
Question:
If you have Steam and you reformat your HD, do you have to have a connection to Steam to reinstall your game even if you have a saved copy on another Drive?
What I'm wondering here is if the .exe is basically encrypted or tied to Steam activation Servers.
I'm really not here to argue the the value or lack thereof of the Steam service. I'm sure it has it's uses and value for some, it's just not for me and I think I've pretty well explained why I personally feel that way.
Im all for digital downloads. Though, I tend to only buy weekend deals because I do feel weird paying full price for them. I want to pick up MassEffect, I can get the disk for $15 shipped but its still $20 on steam :frown:. I Ive moved 5 times in like the past 4 years. Anything that lowers the amount of crap I have to pack\unpack\store\etc the better.
If there comes a day that Steam closes its doors Ill just torrent the games anyway. Its against the law but I paid for the game and supported to Devs so I feel my obligations are met. If any of the individual dev shops\publishers feel the need to prosecute so be it.
Besides the risk of valve shutting its doors is EXTREEMELY unlikely. Even if Valve dies steam will likely be taken over\sold. Steam is one of the digital distribution leaders. It closing down and screwing millions of people would be horrible press for the digital distribution model which I strongly believe the entire gaming industry prefers. Its cheaper\easier\faster to distribute digitally and it makes the resale market impractical (if not impossible). I feel the industry wouldn?t allow this model to fail in such a spectacular way as some of the fear mongers are saying.
If there comes a day that Steam closes its doors Ill just torrent the games anyway. Its against the law but I paid for the game and supported to Devs so I feel my obligations are met. If any of the individual dev shops\publishers feel the need to prosecute so be it.
Besides the risk of valve shutting its doors is EXTREEMELY unlikely. Even if Valve dies steam will likely be taken over\sold. Steam is one of the digital distribution leaders. It closing down and screwing millions of people would be horrible press for the digital distribution model which I strongly believe the entire gaming industry prefers. Its cheaper\easier\faster to distribute digitally and it makes the resale market impractical (if not impossible). I feel the industry wouldn?t allow this model to fail in such a spectacular way as some of the fear mongers are saying.
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